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COLUMNISTS
TODAY'S STORIES
14.11.2008
What Does Obama Do With His Machine?

Tom Hamburger and Peter Wallsten have a terrific piece in today's L.A. Times mulling over what becomes of Obama's hugely powerful grassroots infrastructure once he's sworn in. Apparently there's some debate in Obamaland:

Traditionally, the new president would blend his campaign operation with his party's national committee. Some of Obama's closest advisors lean toward that pragmatic view.

But others, who built the grass-roots organization, worry that linking it too closely to the party could cause the unusual network to unravel -- and squander an extraordinary resource.

The Obama machinery relied heavily on idealistic political outsiders committed to breaking free from old ways of doing politics. The worry is that these enthusiastic activists might drift away if they are turned over to the Democratic National Committee, where the party might ask them to support Democrats and target Republicans.

Instead, Obama advisors involved in building the force think it should remain an independent entity -- organized around the "Obama brand."

The goal, they say, is to integrate Obama's political organization into his new role as president without damaging its zeal for a candidate who promised to change Washington.

For what it's worth, I tend to share the view of Steve Hildebrand, Obama's deputy campaign manager, that the infrastructure will be most effective if it's not folded into the party apparatus:

Hildebrand offered another argument for an independent network: It could be used to challenge Democratic lawmakers if they didn't hew to the Obama agenda. The organization, he said, could "pressure anybody who we would need to build a coalition of votes in the House and Senate."

If nothing else, Obama just hired a chief of staff who's perfectly positioned to bring this organization to bear on the legislative process. It would be kind of a waste if the White House didn't give him the tools to get the job done.

(H/t Ben Smith and First Read.)

--Noam Scheiber  

Posted: Friday, November 14, 2008 5:03 PM with 28 comment(s)

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satyendra said:

Has Obama blown through all $600 million he raised? If not, where do those funds now go?

November 14, 2008 5:27 PM

CharlesFosterKane said:

All I know is I tried to volunteer for Obama and they wanted me to canvass for all the Dem candidates, some of whom I didn't support. If the whole Obama operation was folded into the party appartus, you'd see this writ large, combined with, as you suggest, Democrats who lose interest when it becomes a partisan thing.

November 14, 2008 7:06 PM

ChanRobt said:

Obama will keep the machine close to build his own power, control the money, and if he's not the good guy everyone thinks (hopes) he is, maybe assemble something more sinister.

November 14, 2008 8:53 PM

arsonplus said:

You're wrong here Noam. The most effective pressure that can be brought against off the reservation democrats is the threat of a primary challenge. And sitting just outside of the party apparatus Obama's network is a primary challenge in waiting.

Fear of seeing it unleashed will keep a lot congress in line.

November 14, 2008 8:55 PM

pw01ws said:

As someone who maxxed my contribution to Obama, I'm not interested in giving one cent to the DNC. I want his administration separate, strong, and riding herd - hard - on the lazy, smug, fully-paid-for Democratic congress.

November 14, 2008 10:06 PM

cspencef said:

Ah, good to see the rightwing paranoia machine will be well-represented on Talkback.  Should keep the entertainment/amazement factor high.  

It cannot fold into the Democratic apparatus.  Kane's anecdote above demonstrates one problem with that.  On the other hand, being just another MoveOn replicant seems wasteful.  I am also interested in satyendra's question.

November 14, 2008 10:10 PM

ironyroad said:

" . . .  maybe assemble something more sinister."

Channy has a point.  In fact, I favor the marxist thought police option myself.  But we need a subtle approach, that allows Channy and JD to survive as talkbackers in order to buttress the impression of a real debate happening.

I suppose you wouldn't believe me if I said I was jacobtl?  No, I didn't think so.

Heh heh

November 14, 2008 10:44 PM

ChanRobt said:

irony, it is a Democratic construct to have such diktats as the "Fairness Doctrine" to silence dissent.  It was Obama's people who tried to shut down a public radio program in Chicago for having a guest who opposed Obama.  

It was Leftists who bombed the Pentagon, the Capitol, and police stations.  The Leftist impulse is always control, always toward the totalitarian.  Many will be watching the Obama administrations every move very closely.

And we shall see who the paranoids are.

But remember, irony, revolutions always kill their acolytes along with their stated enemies.  So maybe you ought to maintain some healthy paranoia as well.

November 14, 2008 10:59 PM

satyendra said:

Chan, remember the right-wingers who bomb abortion clinics and kill their doctors before RICO shut their groups down.  So there.

November 14, 2008 11:16 PM

ChanRobt said:

satyendra, there have been individual acts of violence from the Right and it is indefensible.

But it is not the institutionalized state-based coercion that the Left has so much affection for.  Massive, faceless, Kafkaesque bureaucracies that stifle and smother and once created are nearly impossible to undo from within.

November 14, 2008 11:36 PM

ChanRobt said:

P.S., "His Machine" is apt for Obama who comes out of the Chicago Machine.  As does his new chief of staff, a ruthless partisan.

We have never had machine politics brought to the national level.  If that's what we are in store for, the United States will come to resemble Huey Long's Louisiana with a lot of Orwell thrown in.

November 14, 2008 11:39 PM

GSpinks said:

"But it is not the institutionalized state-based coercion that the Left has so much affection for."

I bet you and Limbaugh are BFF; complete nut jobs who use scurrilous accusations to bolster specious conclusions, and vice versa.

"Massive, faceless, Kafkaesque bureaucracies that stifle and smother and once created are nearly impossible to undo from within"

Yes, we know. One of the reasons many of us preferred Obama this election was because as the FNG he is virtually an outsider and therefore the best suited to tear down Bush's Kafkaesque Bureaucracy. (Good ol' FOX News Corp., propaganda wing of the Bush Regime).

November 15, 2008 12:02 AM

GSpinks said:

"We have never had machine politics brought to the national level.  If that's what we are in store for, the United States will come to resemble Huey Long's Louisiana with a lot of Orwell thrown in."

You remind me of my favorite Newspaper Headline from Sim City 4: Nay sayers say nay!

As for machine politics, I think your problem is that this time around the machine is Obama's, not Bush's. I'm not much of a political history buff nor a gambler, but I'd be willing to bet these aren't the first nation political machines either.

November 15, 2008 12:05 AM

WoodyBombay said:

"We have never had machine politics brought to the national level."

That's laughable. You obviously don't know anything about U.S. politics from, say, Grant to McKinley.

Anyway, there's all kinds of different machines, Channy. As a native Texan, I can guaran-damn-tee you we've been sitting through eight years of machine politics. Maybe you missed the U.S. attorney scandal. That's Texas Machine Politics at its sickening finest.

November 15, 2008 1:23 AM

ironyroad said:

Channy:  "It was Leftists who bombed the Pentagon, the Capitol, and police stations.  The Leftist impulse is always control, always toward the totalitarian."

I might be tempted, in a moment of annoyance, to suggest that the Right has a bigger problem in that Timothy McVeigh, who drove a truck bomb up to a children's daycare center, killed more Americans than any Leftist militant ever did.  But perhaps I'll let it go, as I don't find this conversation either useful or edifying.

November 15, 2008 2:35 AM

psantillana said:

If I get shunted into the DNC I"m out.

Dean put us all into an org still called DFA, but now "Democracy For America", and they're ok.

November 15, 2008 3:30 AM

AaronBBrown said:

Proposition 8 Protest across the nation today.

JOIN THE IMPACT: UNITE FOR LGBTQ EQUALITY! (Saturday, November 15, 2008)

jointheimpact.wetpaint.com

November 15, 2008 9:27 AM

satyendra said:

Irony, I thought of Timothy McVeigh and Nichols as well, but to play devil's advocate, are their views identifiably extreme right-wing? Maybe so if they were secessionist, off the grid, gov't off my back types.

November 15, 2008 1:23 PM

Wasatcher said:

Interesting how those who raise the fearsome specter of a totalitarian Obama's leftistness never mention the names of the really great dictators. Totalitarianism can come from both right and left, but it always ends up with jingoistic fear mongering. Hitler came to power by preaching fear of communism. In the end he and Stalin were so alike their ideologies made no difference at all, that was all facade. The only thing that mattered is power. And that's what we will continue to hear from the right as long as they have no philosophical core greater than "Fear the left and get power!"

November 15, 2008 1:32 PM

ironyroad said:

satyendra -- that's a fair point, but I'd approach it this way, and make a fairly clear distinction between left-wing liberatarianism and the right-wing variety.  Whatever you think of their ideas, left libertarians are usually not anger-filled, paranoid, racist homophobes.  I don't believe for a moment that most conservatives share the extreme views of the white supremacist militia element (as indeed most people on the left didn't and don't agree with violence arising from so-called "progressive" motives or causes) but the extreme anti-government rhetoric, the racial paranoia, the obsession with weaponry, the fear of sexuality and the projection of femininity onto political opponents -- all that poisonous mix on the rightward fringe of the GOP certainly can -- I repeat, can -- shade into something more ominous.

November 15, 2008 2:59 PM

ChanRobt said:

Gspinks, yer right, it's not just state based coercion that comes from the Left.

As we right, the Gaystapo is going batshit on the streets of Los Angeles.  They've tried to shut down with a large noise mob a very popular restaurant and L.A. institution called El Coyote.  

Why?  Because one of the daughters of the owner (the daughter is a Mormon) donated $100 to the Pro 8 campaign.  Subsequently, employees, fearing for their livelihoods, pooled 500 bucks which they donated to the Repeal 8 cause in hope that this would propitiate their tormentors.

Another man, the artistic director of the California Musical Theater, a 25 year employee of that non-profit org, was forced to resign for his political beliefs-- having been outed for donating to the Prop 8 campaign.  The Gaystapo strikes again.

This kind of activity is the kind of Brownshirt tactic that has been preponderant on the Left for decades.  Add gay hysteria to the mix and you have a very undemocratic impulse at work, indeed.

The use of state resources databases and state employees (six of them) against "Joe the Plumber" are another example of Leftist modes and methods.  

This kind of stuff is endemic amongst Obama acolytes.  We shall see what Himself does or allows to be done under his "rule".

November 15, 2008 6:37 PM

ChanRobt said:

irony writes, "...I might be tempted, in a moment of annoyance, to suggest that the Right has a bigger problem in that Timothy McVeigh, who drove a truck bomb up to a children's daycare center, killed more Americans than any Leftist militant ever did."

Uh, irony, McVeigh was executed during a Republican administration.  He was not pardoned or rehabilitated or given a job by Republicans teaching anarchist philosophy in a state funded university.  He was never defended by the Republican mayor of a major American city.  He was not sucked up to by a Republican seeking to enter politics.

Had McVeigh somehow evaded justice on an evidence or police procedural technicality, I assure you he would not have been embraced by Republicans or anyone on the right this side of David Duke.  

He certainly would not have reached the level of acceptance and respectability accorded by Democrats, let alone the Left, to Ayers & his worse wife, Dohrn.

As to your assertion that McVeign as a tragically far more competent bomber than the Leftists, unfortunately true.  But, then, people of the Right actually know how to do things.  

November 15, 2008 6:46 PM

WoodyBombay said:

"The use of state resources databases and state employees (six of them) against "Joe the Plumber" are another example of Leftist modes and methods."

So the release of information about Obama's aunt in Boston was an example of Rightist modes and methods, right? Right?

If you're going to be so hypocritical, you should at least stop leading with your chin.

November 15, 2008 7:32 PM

WoodyBombay said:

The 'Gaystapo' characterization is pretty bigoted, too. For boycotts and peaceful protests, a comparison to the Gestapo and Brownshirts? Pretty vile, chan. Very disgusting. Did you pour water over the heads of black men who sat at Woolworth's lunch counters, too?

Who. oh who, will be your Bull Connor? Maybe it'll be you, yourself -- got a garden hose?

November 16, 2008 12:58 AM

GSpinks said:

First and foremost, Channy-boy, I fail to see how your ad hominem assault of gays amounts to a rebuttal on any of my arguments or rebuttals. However, you have convinced me that you are a blithering idiot incapable of making a reasoned argument.

Second, I find your willingness to describe an otherwise peace exercise of the first amendment in terms of brownshirts and the Gustapo little more than inflammatory drivel. Not a soul was hurt, and you're comparing them to the second worst dictator in world history?

Finally, Republicans have a long and storied history of embracing their criminal element: DeLay, Keating and G. Gordon Libby come to mind right off the bat. So much for your excuse that Republicans ostracize their criminals? But, hey, at least they aren't gay, and that makes it all ok, right?

November 16, 2008 2:03 AM

ironyroad said:

Channy -- my broader point was not that Ayers, to the best of my knowledge, didn't kill anyone.  Nor even that this suggests a slight contrast (I should almost apologize for mentioning it) to McVeigh, who killed 168 people including 20 children in the day care center, which was of course just one more unit carrying on its job of helping government interfere in the lives of the citizens, carrying out its totalitarian mission of social control, as you say yourself.

Rather, my point was simply that the ideology of hatred and resentment on the fringe of the Republican party shaded into the white-supremacist radical anti-government posture of militia types like McVeigh.

Your comment about the Right knowing how to blow up innocent citizens more effectively is a good one and should stand, however.

November 16, 2008 3:19 AM

ChanRobt said:

irony writes, "...Your comment about the Right knowing how to blow up innocent citizens more effectively is a good one and should stand, however."

Well, it's a fact, people of the Right who grow up in the country work on farms, and join the military are more competent and actually know how to do things.  As opposed to being soft-handed, dilletante theorists.

That a horrid aberration like McVeigh demonstrates such ability in a hideous manner doesn't prove anything about the morality of the Right.

Lee Harvey Oswald, who tried to defect to Russia and spent time in Cuba was apparently of the Left.  I don't maintain that proves anything either.  But, if you believe the Warren Commission, his Marine marksmanship skills gave him the ability to kill a president with a mail-order rifle.

This is all a fairly dumb conversation.  But one thing akin to this subject that annoys me about elite New Yorkers and their inordinate influence on this country, is that as useless city people who don't know how to drive, fly a plane, ride a motorcycle, or any other damn thing, they want the rest of us to ride subways with them.  And assume all the rest of their attitudes about technology and society.

November 17, 2008 7:35 PM

ChanRobt said:

WoodyBombay writes, "...The 'Gaystapo' characterization is pretty bigoted, too. For boycotts and peaceful protests, a comparison to the Gestapo and Brownshirts?"

The demonstrations I witnessed in person and on air and read about in the L.A. Times weren't that peaceful and they weren't, I don't believe done with demonstration permits.

They flooded across streets stopping traffic.  They attempted to shut down a restaurant with a large mob screaming epithets and attempting to intimidate customers and employees.  They ultimately cost one man his job of 25 years.

This is not the way poltical activity is supposed to be carried on in a democracy.  I stand by "Gaystapo" when people behave like thugs.

The big joke is, they were demonstrating in the part of town that voted against Prop 8.  They didnt take their mob to the East Side where blacks and Hispanics for Obama overwhelmingly and almost as strongly for Prop 8.

So take your bitch to the black "bigots," Bombay.

November 17, 2008 7:42 PM