Don't discourage Republicans from using this hopeless tactic.

The idea that anyone really gives a shit about Ayers is diagnostic of current Republican futility.

Why the hell aren't Obama's surrogates going after Palin's husband belonging to the Alaskan Independence Party up to a few years ago? And she addressed their convention. At this point, we should be labelling Palin's husband a secessionist traitor, sure it "stretches" the truth, but put those f'ers on the defensive.

McCain is a runt.

Only 26 days left for the quadrennial liberal shock phenomenon (diagnosis by Dr. Wieseltier) to work its magic. What will you people do when Obama wins the election?

Blackie - Consider how out of touch and erratic McCain looks bringing up Ayers in the middle of economic Armageddon.  Voters like Obama precisely because he's addressing their fears and concerns rather than spouting b.s. like this.

The Ayers attacks are the death throes of a mortally wounded animal.

And the other thing about this is that Ayers wasn't talking about bombing more in 2001, he was saying he wished he'd bombed more in 1970.

"Why the hell aren't Obama's surrogates going after Palin's husband belonging to the Alaskan Independence Party up to a few years ago? And she addressed their convention. At this point, we should be labelling Palin's husband a secessionist traitor, sure it "stretches" the truth, but put those f'ers on the defensive.

"

Or Gordon Liddy for crying out loud.

That's a pretty thin hair you are splitting there Mr. Crowley.  Ayers on Sep 10, 2001 felt no regrets and allowed the paper to go to press on the 11th with those views.  

I would say that Ayers still felt those views 9/11 in the early morning, and that would make McCains argument true.

Changing your opinion on terrorism depending on who is doing it, really is morally vapid.

If we're pointing our the newstands on 9/11/2001, the New Republic had one of it's best peices ever, a cver story on Joska Fisher, Germany's Foreign Minister and his background as a 1960's radical.  The cover had him throwing a Molotov Cocktail at the police.  'The Passion of Joschka Fischer' written by Peter Berman (I think) really covers a lot of the same ground as this current Ayer's debate.  This is where I thought Obama would go, not this mindless finger pointing and denials.

Blackie: he's staying on message.

I've been asking myself the same question about Todd Palin's secessionist viewpoints.  Though Obama has stated that families are "off limits", it seems to me that that if the VP candidate's husband wants his home state to secede from the US, that should be fair game for criticism.  It certainly suggests a distinct lack of patriotism to say the least.

CS: Check out the story on Salon.  It's uglier than all that, and not just Todd, but the nutcases that drove the Palin's political life.

More, etc., so on, so forth ... John, John, John ... what is it about planetaria that you find so disturbing? Even though the whole "overhead projector earmark" thing has debunked about...

Good grief, I can't belive anyone could even care about Ayers.  1970 was a different time and I can't really fault Ayers for doing what he thought had to be done.   I was lucky enought to be born after the establishment of my country decided to fight a pointless war using unwilling draftees as cannon fodder.  The 60s and 70s have enough real villains without focusing on one mans, misguided, attempt to fight against an intolerable and unjust system.  I wasn't even born and Obama was 8 and John McCain was busy crashing jets in Vietnam in an attempt to belatedly gain favor in the Navy.  It was a long time ago.

I hate to break it to you, blackie, but to the average American, the idea of Alaska seceding just doesn't get the blood boiling.  Did the First Dude fire on Fort Sumter?  Ot some air base up on the tundra?

I'm inclined to say, about the secession issue:  this time, let's just let 'em go!  It's too much trouble, and emancipating the moose from the terror regime that hunts them down in helicopters is a nice idea but not an overriding moral imperative such as ending slavery was.

Let them try their "independence" deal without the U.S. tit to suck on, if you'll excuse the crudity.

Too true, irony. For all the vaunted petrodollars that fund the state budget, Alaska is a huge net importer of federal dollars. Right up there with the Republican South as far as being a drain on the economically productive parts of the nation. Without its annual federal largess, Alaska would be the Alabama of the Arctic.

Rhubs: even with the federal dollars, Alaska is, in social and environmental terms, the Alabama of the Arctic.

Channy, the leader of the party blew himself up with plastic explosives. Are you saying all is forgiven now with Timothy McVeigh, that you can kill Americans provided you do it in the name of Jesus and Freedom?

Ayers is a scumbag, but Obama sure as hell didn't marry him. Palin married a guy who thinks Timothy McVeigh is a hero.

ligedog, YGBSM.  Ayers tried to kill Americans in 1970, and now wishes only that he had been more successful.  That separates him from Osama exactly how?

The real question is, what did Obama know about this guy and his wife and when did he know it, and what did he say to Ayers about it?

I don't for a moment think that many people care about the Ayers matter in the midst of the economic problems we have, but Obama's relationships with Ayers, Wright and Rezko illuminate his character, and should give us pause.

There is no excusing Ayers, but I find a lot of the attacks to be a bit ludicrous.  The attacks come from the same basic demographic that defends people like Randy Weaver and David Koresh.

And while I don't necessarily believe Sarah Palin to be a puppet run by a pseudo-Mafia of right-wing secessionists, if the Republicans are going to attack Obama on the "company he keeps" argument, they have to remember that street runs in both directions.

The Mat-Su valley (Palin's home) and North Pole (the local redoubt of religious wingnuts and meth labs) are like Alabama in the Arctic. But Anchorage is more like an Arctic version of Boulder Colorado (but less liberal), and the rest of us are, well, not so bad as Alabama. Definitely more weird than Alabama, though.

"That separates him from Osama exactly how?"

Well, Osama actually did cause well over 3000 deaths.  

There are lots of people who "wish" violence or "wish" they had done something or another differently thirty-eight years ago.  But, as it happens, you can't - and no one can - point to an instance of terrorist activity on the part of Ayers since 1970.  This is not to excuse him or try to understand him or anything, only to put things in their proper perspective, and to underline why it is that Obama's "relationship" with Ayers merits, if at all, about 1.5 seconds of pause, three seconds of sober reflection, and immediate dismissal thereafter.

As for Wright and Rezko, please.  In a General Election where Johnny "I never met a lobbyist I didn't like" Mac and Sarah "Witchdoctor" Palin are in the running, to raise Wright and Rezko as a character point is to reach deep into a dried well of desperation.

DOW was at 8000 around 930 this morning.  This is a net loss of about three trillion dollars in value in just over two weeks.  And you want to "pause" over Wright, Rezko and Ayers?  Go ahead.

hmmm....who besides Barack Obama served on the founding board of the Chicago Annenberg Challenge, which was funded by a City-supported, $49 million grant that Ayers and 2 other educational professionals wrote and that was accepted in a City Hall ceremony by Mayor Daley, Gov. Edgar, and presumably some of the 73 other education, foundation and government officials who worked on the project.  Besides Barack, the other terror lovers on the Board were: Stanley Iknberry, Pres., University of Illinois (1979-1995), Arnold R. Weber, Pres., Northwestern University (1985-1994); Ray Romero, VP, General Counsel, Ameritech; Handy Lindsey, Jr.,, Pres., Field Foundation of Illinois (1997-2003; Wanda White, Susan Grown, Patricia Albjerg Graham.

If Obama is 'guilty' of something (notice McCain never says exactly what) for knowing Bill Ayers, then so are all the people listed above.  And what about U.S. Rep. Bobby Rush, Jr., former leader of the Black Panther Party?  Obama foolishly ran against incumbent Rush and suffered his first electoral defeat. Why hasn't McCain taken on Rush?

Or are they kind of preoccupied with other things right now?

Flinging around remarks about Ayers trying to kill people is dangerous and false. The Weather people targeted empty buildings only in protest against the Vietnam war. I think it was stupid but it wasn't murder. Some of them, I believe (not Ayers)    attracted criminals who said they should rob banks too, and it was in the commission of that crime that people were killed. It was an awful time and some of  the radical youth groups went too far, as did the government they were protesting. The Weather Underground was less disorganized and foolish than others, but still pointless and counterproductive.

Ayers is now a university professor and a member of the establishment. he is still on the political left, of course, which is legal. Apparently Ayers himself says the idea that the centrist Obama is ultraliberal is laughable,

Wonder what McCain thinks about "terrorists" like Menachem Begin and Moshe Dyan?

Stormtrooper Sarah and Sen. McRunt's behavior give me more than pause, they give me full stop as in if they are elected I think America will come to a complete stop.

Somebody had to bring the Jews in a disuccion that has nothing to do with Jews and Israel. That is the surest mark of demented and obsessive anti-Semite. For once, it wasn't ndmacknezie, our long-time and honored resident anti-Semite, it was peters143. Welcome to the menagerie, peters 143.

As most anti-Semites, peters143 is also stupid and ignorant. What do Begin and Dayan have in common? Nothing, except that they were Israelis.

Dayan was a left-wing military who fought valiantly, but never was a terrorist. Naturally, peters143 can't stand Dayan, who prevented Israel from obliteration in 1967.

Begin was a terrorist from the nationalist movement. He blew up the military headquarters of the occupying British power. Naturally, peters143 sides with the occupying power, not necessarily because he likes colonialists (if he's a left-winger he may even profess some dislike of colonialism, though not enough to tell the France to get out of French Guyana or Britain to get out of the Caribean islands and Gibraltar), but because he likes whatever side hates Jews.

People like peters143 only like Jews wen they're murdered - and that's the best case. (Hey, he could be worse! He could be from Hizballah, or from Iran, and hate the dead ones too!) That's why they have sympathy for Holocaust victims - they can extend their superior men pride to the dead Jews. For people like him, the only Jew that is right is a dead -and specifically murdered- Jew.

That is why peters143 hates fighting Jews -and especially successfully fighting Jews- like Begin and Dayan.

Obama to McCain (in an ideal world)

Your VP candidate, Ms. Palin, has made quite a stir about my 'judgement' by inaccurately spinning a New York Times story which mentioned that I sit on a board that Bill Ayers sits on.

For the record, The New York Times accurately said that Ayers is a reality in Chicago politics and I am NOT close with him. He is NOT an adviser to my campaign and won't have a position in my White House.

Now Ms. Palin has repeatedly said that her close adviser is her husband, the 'first dude of Alaska,' who was a member of a political party which advocates Alaska's secession from the United States! THE DESTRUCTION of the United States!!!! Talk about bad judgement--she could be a heartbeat away from the presidency!!!!

And John, you've been on charity boards, why don't you talk about some of the nuts who are in organizations WITH YOU!! Like John Singlaub, and his so-called 'Anti-Communist League,' which was known as a haven for extremists, racists and anti-Semites. And which, I might add, you conveniently forgot to put on your mandatory congressional disclosure form. A lack of judgement issue?

And what about your membership in the Keating 5, when you sat in regulatory meetings with Mr. Keating to get 'the feds off his back' before his bank failed and cost the taxpayers billions. The Senate sure thought that showed your bad judgement. That was the Ethics Committee's ruling!!

But let's face it, all this is a desperate smoke screen to muck up your failed economic plan; to avoid discussing the positive changes I want to make to turn this ship I love, called the United States of America.

You don't want the American people to focus on what they need to change their lives--your cynical, negative tactics are treating the people like they're idiots!! Your incredibly transparent tactic is to use up everyone's time talking about guys elected to boards I sat on, without mentioning the nuts who sit on boards with YOU, or the would-be intimate advisors, who favor secession, in a McCain-Palin administration!...

...because, you'd rather do that than talk about what really matters--the economy--because on that subject: you're just plain wrong!!!!

ileonard, you get your own opinions, but not your own facts.  The planning by the WU for blowing up the officer's club at Ft. Dix, NJ during a dance where young officers and their escorts would have been targets is well known.  The WU bombed the Pentagon, which is NEVER empty.  This was not a benign organization, merely stupid kids playing pranks.  Guess you had to be there.

blackie, you know better.  You sound like some of my friends on the right who view Obama's election as the Apocalypse.  It's silly.  I find him in over his head, and completely unqualified, but he's not a loon.

When I watch McCain fire off on this Ayers thing, he seems to be implying that there is something about Obama that we don't know and that if we did know it we woudl not vote for him.  In other words, Obama is a risky unknown.  Well, I thought I understood who McCain was, until recently.  I thought he was this guy who had principles, was known for his straight talk, and was primarily concerned in doing what was right as opposed to what was idealogically driven by his party.  Now after his campaign statements about Obama and the baiilout, I feel I have no idea who McCain is or what he will say next.  I don't know what to expect of him.  He is the unknown one.  Worse, I expect him to wander about saying "mission accomplished, mission accomplished!"

"Bueller?"

ROFLMAO!

Here's how Obama might handle McCains's anticpated Ayers attack: "I guess it's time for me to come clean. For years now I have been involved in an organization whose ranks have included some mighty unsavory characters whose actions have not always been in the best interests of this country. I admit that I have knowingly sat side by side with some of those individuals, so cannot disclaim my association with them. But - if you're going to hold me culpable for being a member of the U.S. Congress - keep in mind my opponent has been there much longer than I have."

Michael Crowley : "But the fact is that while Ayers did tell the New York Times "I don't regret setting bombs" and "I feel we didn't do enough," in September '01, he said those things prior to 9/11"

In interviews with Ayers post-91 (eg. with James Rosen in 2004), he has not changed his mind - so of what significance is it whether he said it prior or post 911 ?