It's pretty gratifying to know that the Republicans are really ok with teenage sex now.  Next thing, they'll be saying the 1960s weren't so bad after all.

That's not what he said, he said he wouldn't want his daughters to get pregnant as teenagers in the first place.

Two thoughts on this:

One, the issue is still McCain.  He knew that the daughter was pregnant, and still picked Palin as his VP.  Talk about crass cynicism.  They will flog any Democrat who mentions her, but they are the ones to be blamed for dragging this teenager into the national spotlight.

Two, the right-wing, who has clearly purchased McCain lock, stock, and barrel, will hype the daughter as the beatific maternal one who didn't have an abortion.   They will 'use' her as some kind of life-affirming living message-board.  

In both cases, it is the right that has played this cynically, and will continue to do so.  Yet, they will blame all of this on the heartless, pro-abortion, anti-family-values Democrats.  Janus himself couldn't speak out his two-faces as easily as the Republicans regarding this debacle.

Situational ethics = The Family Values Brigade

I wonder how far the country has to be trashed before conservatives realize that the Family Values Brigade crapping in their pond too and agrees to get rid of the electoral college.

kgrant is right on - the spin is already that she is keeping the child.  It's "Juno" in Juneau, the teen comedy which unexpectedly and absurdly became some sort of right wing morality play.  

Gotta give  the GOP credit on how they play the press like a fiddle - leaked this on Labor/Gustav Day.  By Friday it'll be forgotten and we'll be back to teen abstinence and the leftist plot that is sex ed.

More than anything the fundamentalist like to think of themselves as victims - re their constant refrain that any opinions other than their approved thoughts are "anti-Christian" and unfair to right thinking Americans.  

That is how they will play this - any comments are anti-Christian.

It is not about McCain - it is an unfair attack on their values.

Well, a pregnant teenage daughter is a crisis that a fair number of families face, so maybe this is consistent with the regular-gal "hockey mom" persona.  Even so, I'm not sure this slightly crazy tale will sit well with older voters, some of whom, I think, still like a little dignity in their public officials.  Wasn't part of Dubya's appeal supposed to be his and Laura's basic family dignity?  Then when you add this to Palin's sister's nine kids and no dad at home (yeah, the one with the messy divorce from the state trooper), doesn't this whole damn family start to look a little, I'll say it, trashy?  In any event, "dignified" is not quite the word.

Rriley - you mean hockey grandmom.

All others: What does it say about Palin that she would drag her pregnant daughter into the national spotlight? What kind of animal is this woman?

It is my understanding that Gov. Palin is a strong supporter of "Abstinence Only" sex education.  This is despite the fact that study after study has shown that not only does "Abstinence Only"  not work, it leads to even more unwanted teenage pregnancies.

I wonder if this is making her rethink that.  I'd sure like to think so, but I doubt it.  That's not how their minds work.

The Democrats need to stay away from this issue like the plague.  Kgrant is completely right and I can't see an upside to making any mention of it.  The right will spin this as Juno come to life, a girl who made a mistake many kids make and then decides to do "the right thing" with her parents support.

But here are some shocking and crazy thoughts.  Since they didn't announce Bristol's pregnancy until internet rumors started flying how were they planning on breaking the story?  By the election Bristol will be noticeably pregnant.  I wonder if they were going to try an abortion?  Or were they savy enough to wait and use Gustav as a shield?  And if Bristol miscarries or for some other reason does not deliver a baby in the next few months won't the internet pregnancy conspiracy rumors start anew?  Questions still abound.

This causes all kinds of problems for McCain-Palin. Of course, who knows how it will all play out. But, having said that, I see three potential pitfalls from this.

First, Palin came out in support of abstinence-only sex-ed programs while running for governor. I imagine it will be hard for the McCain campaign to defend this policy with Gov. Palin on the ticket since it didn’t work for her daughter. It also brings up the merits of other faith-based curriculum, like intelligent-design–which Palin supports.

The wording of Palin’s announcement is problematic as well. It said, in part, “We’re proud of Bristol’s decision to have her baby and even prouder to become grandparents.”

Whoa. Her decision? So Bristol exercised her right to choose, and chose to have her baby (good for her, by the way.) But her mother is running on a platform that seeks to take away that right to choose from young women who might not have a loving family’s support and strength; in fact, Palin said she is against abortion even in the case of rape. So why is Gov. Palin proud of her daughter’s decision if she doesn’t believe she had a right to make one.

The last issue is why would Gov. Palin agree to run for the Vice-Presidency right now? She seems like a really good person. But she has a four-month old with Down Syndrome and a seventeen-year old who is five-months pregnant. Is this really the right time to make a run? It’s not like time was passing her by and this was the only chance to serve. And clearly she has important things going on at home. This may call her judgment into question. And irony again, the Palin pick threw out experience as the issue and changed it to judgment. (And before the outrage begins, I’m talking about her judgment as a parent, not a mother; the same question should be asked of any father who decided to run under the same circumstances.)  

I agree that pushing this in any way looks bad, and commend Obama for his stand up response.  However, I'm considerably less forgiving here on the situation.  First, is this not a case of failed parenting, especially from the evangelical/abstinence only mother?  Much of the talk about her as a "hockey mom" has been a major selling point in her roll out as nominee.  Is it much good how much hockey you play when you aren't at least preparing  them for when they do adult things?  Second,  what mother would knowingly agree to be nominated so that her daughter's embarrassment could become a national news story?  Where does protecting your child get sublimated to ambition?  Third, if McCain knew (and I doubt this), what does it say that he would also agree to let her daughter's problems become a national story?  Forth, what mother lets their daughter get married at 17?  I understand that he is the baby's father, but still.  What amount of teen shotgun marriages end up being healthy and happy partnerships that are good to both their parents and the child?   Are they getting married sorely because being an unwed teenage mother would be political scandal without the marriage?  Moreover, male or female, the Palin family seems to have alot of deep family issues that they need to work through. Their time seems better served supporting their daughter, and their newborn, than flying around the country stumping to be Vice President.   Why they would willingly subject themselves to the maelstrom of a national campaign or the Vice Presidency is beyond me.  RQuite frankly,  I find their entire rollout of this to be a disappointment and a mockery of family values.  Knowing what she apparently knew,  she should never have been picked.  

Finally teenage pregnancy will get the respectability it so richly deserves.

If, as some say, Gov. Paylin is meant to attract the conservative family values folks, how does a woman pregnant with her fifth child who then runs for governor fit into the family values model as a parent? --- And virginacentrist has it right: What kind of ambition does it take to drag your "back on the bus" pregnant daughter thru the media hype this is bound to get? The missing key to this polynomial equation is the word hypocracy, not a widely praised virtue tho it seems to be the only thing that will keep the Republic on its wheels.

Exactly right, Adam.  How any parent decides to hit the road like this with such challenges at home is beyond me.  

And before the villagers bring out the pitch-forks and assorted whatnot - I stayed home for just over eight years as the stay-at-home-dad/house-husband so that our two kids would have as normal a childhood as possible.  My wife's job simply did not allow her to take more time off than the 10 weeks of maternity leave.   I could.  We made the decision to live on one income (not particularly easy, I will give you that, but the right decision nonetheless.  It put me 8-10 years behind others in my field.  Still, one of us, we decided, needed to be at home to raise the munchkin horde (ok, it is only two of them, but sometimes...sometimes).  We made this decision because it was the right thing to do for our kids.  Now, both are in school (middle school and elementary school) and I am back to work.  I cannot fathom leaving a special needs infant with the day care (or even the grandparents).  

Since Gov. Palin is on the road, will the husband be staying home to take care of their child?  If so, then I will applaud them.  If not, they are not quite the sainted family-values types the right wants so desperately to see.

"One, the issue is still McCain.  He knew that the daughter was pregnant, and still picked Palin as his VP."

There is no way McCain knew about Bristol Palin's pregnancy when he picked Palin.  

I'm sorry, but the Hockey Mom Of the Century story seems to be coming apart at the seams.  Yesterday I thought the state trooper brother in law drama was trashy enough.  Now this, and what's next? Did McCain know?  If so, did he forewarn the Ralph Reeds, Dr. Dobsons, and others of the Christian Right who were so enthusiastic on Thursday with their praise of Palin?  Something tells me yes he knew, and no, he didn't tell them, but rather would let them sputter and twist in the wind.

Reckless is as reckless does.

More, more more revelations.

Ok, I have officially blown a Mom/feminism/what-have-you fuse.

I'm with you VirginiaCentrist.

Incredibly, a lot of GOP nuts do indeed equate abotion with birth control in some bubble-headed way I can't pretend to fathom. And they have the nerve to stereotypically gripe about blacks and Hispanics spewing out children? Talk about the pot calling the kettle black. I mean, is there ANYTHING the GOP does or says that isn't hypocritical to the nth degree?

I was just thinking about Obama's argument in his acceptance speech that while people may disagree on abortion, we can agree on working to reduce the number of unwanted pregnancies (and by extension the number of abortions that occur).  I thought it was a salient point, that there are ways we can work to reduce the number of abortions in the U.S. rather than simply waiting for Roe to be overturned.  On an issue where it's notoriously difficult to find common ground, there was at least a patch of it here.

Does this news put that argument in a different light?  Obviously the argument predates news of Bristol Palin's pregnancy, but it could well change how it's perceived.  Does it throw the point into sharper relief?  Does it detract from the argument by making talk about avoiding unwanted pregnancies look like a thinly veiled shot at Palin's family?  My guess is the latter, which would be a shame.  I hope I'm wrong.

Will somebody please point out what this situation reveals about the right wing fundamentalists. Palin has said she was happy with her daughter's decision. But of course if McCain is elected, other girls and women will have no choice. They will have to keep the baby. This is the right wing view of America. Everybody has to live like them. This is what is unAmerican about the right wing. I hope someone, somewhere along the way pints this out.

What this episode proves is that humans remain human no matter what mold religions and other ideologies try to stuff them into. Does anybody think that being "born again" refined the political and business ethics of the GOP and its donors?

You guys may well be somewhat captured by illustrious cartoons. We'll find out if she regards you in the same way. If not you and yours will get your asses kicked on this issue. I'm rooting for her and hope she flies right by all your small and mean spirited bullshit. I can't believe some of what I'm reading here.

Barack Obama is right to try and head you all off of this line. You are fucking with motherhood and last I checked we all have/had one. Don't assume what or how this particular mother thinks.

"I can't believe some of what I'm reading here."

Could you be more specific?  I mean, let's be clear on one thing:  this isn't Barack Obama's campaign HQ.  It's a subscriber discussion board, and generally people talk about what interests them.  Palin and the political implications of her daughter's "teenage pregnancy" (a slur, as kevincollins notes above, often directed against minorities) seems to interest people, and they have different takes on those implications.

If Palin didn't want this to be out in the public sphere, then she shouldn't have accepted the VP slot on the Republican ticket.

"Fucking with motherhood," my ass.  Sarah Palin may well be fucking with the presidency of the United States at some point.

Yeah, guys, what box said. Really.

I think we should stick to the issues when it comes to Palin. The negatives on her will play itself enough without help from any of us.

Fair enough, scrubby, I agree.  But boxo's comment implied that we're all working for Obama or some such nonsense and therefore we should toe the leader's line.  BS.  There are geunine issues raised by the choice of Palin and the aftermath of that choice, and people are entitled to discuss them.  Nobody is required to run for president or VP, and they should know what they are getting into if they do so.

After a generation of being victims of the GOP slime machine, I find it really touching that everyone is now meant to play nice and not even discuss the fact that the Repugs are now suddenly ok with teenage sex.

Give me a break!

What irony said.

The hypocrisy of the Republicans is breath-taking.  Just imagine, if you will, Biden's young daughter being a teen unwed mother.  The Republicans would be making this and her THE issue.  Not suggesting Obama should do this - he will win on the issues - but that the whole episode is vomit-inducing, is beyond question.

All right, if Ms. Palin did cover for her sixteen year old daughter's

pregnancy, what magnitude of sin is it?  Since it made possible a

birth instead of an abortion, it's only going to help the GOP ticket

with their base.  Since Democrats and urban secularists don't believe

in sexual sin, how much noise could be made about it?

And if the mud starts slinging, it just brings back to the suface,

"Chicago Machine Politician," "Friend of Convicted Felon & Influence

Buyer, Revko," "Protege of unrepentant American Terrorists, bill Ayers

& Bernadette Dohrn".

The scandal game is hard to play nowadays since all politicians are so naughty.

Meanwhile, going back to the original theory, the daughter in question

is pregnant at 17 with a child and is to marry the father.  Either she

doesn't learn very fast or she's starting a family of 12.

A few thoughts on Sarah Palin and her unmarried, pregnant, 17-year-old daughter.

1. Obama's comment (that families are off-limits) is a masterstroke.

2. Dems need not focus (or comment) on Palin's daughter at all; the MSM (and the general public) will obsess on this out-of-wedlock pregnancy without any partisan instigation whatsoever.  

3. The American public loves a scandal, and the interest in Bristol's pregnancy, fed by the MSN, will be widespread, which will, in turn, encourage the MSN to obsess on this subject endlessly.

4. Evangelicals and social conservatives within the GOP base may look forgivingly upon Sarah Palin and her daugher, as it is expected within such circles that we (as humans) will sin. What is not acceptable is acceptance (or normalization) of sin. If Palin plays this right, the base won't retreat.

5. The immediate problem for the GOP--and the immediate effect of Bristol Palin's pregnancy--is that it changes the (MSM) narrative at the GOP Convention to: what did John McCain know and when did he know it (with regard to knowledge of Palin's daughter's pregnancy and his selection of Palin as VP)?

6. This change in narrative will essentially obscure any message the Republicans try to get through to the voting public during their (hours of free prime-time air time) Convention.

7. The end result  may be the elimination of any anticipated bounce that McCain would have normally recieved in the wake of the RNC, especially with swing voters, as his message will be trumped by the perceived scandal.

Irony. You're right. Have at it.

I hear you,irony, it's just that all the attention - not by Obama, though - on Palin's family instead of her politics/policy seems to shift focus to the petty,  just as the GOP wants it. That's the kind of fight they cherish and they'll will win it everytime. For whatever reason they are just better at it. Also, I sense a flow of sympathy towards Palin, the inevitable backlash that'll follow, hence my queasiness.

"Irony. You're right. Have at it."

Boxo, I just wanted to make it clear that I'm not an employee of the Obama campaign, and therefore what Obama says should happen or not happen is not binding on me or anyone else expressing their opinion here.

Channy, that's very thoughtful. Any damage to McCain will stem not from the circumstances themselves, but how well his campaign can suppress the facts surrounding Palin's supposed vetting. Latest is the "legal vetting" had been complete, but the "political vetting may not been as thorough."

True, the evangelicals will brush it aside as they do every time when the offending individual or organization is one of their own. Personal redemption/reconstruction is a big totem in conservative evangelical speak. Too bad it doesn't apply to liberals, even those who are evangelicals. Funny thing about that.

Chan... You really surprise me.  You are still beating the Ayers drum as a sign of "values" but are OK with a mother leaving a Down's Syndrome baby in the care of whom?  her 17 year old, pregnant daughter 3 days after the baby's birth.  I call that child abuse, for both the baby and the 17 year old.

It's Ok to believe in abstinence only but not manage to teach it to the 17 year old?

It's Ok to leave all those other little kids to fend for themselves?

What kind of Family Values is this?

Yes women can do lots of things... they just can't do them all simultaneously.

I'll let you in on a little secret... He's just lost the over 55 women's vote regardless of political persuasion... most of us don't go in for Political Correctness... we are, mostly far too realistic for that.

This is the most stunning combination of cynicism combined with a gambler's recklessness.  Just what I want in a CIC or POTUS.  

And a woman like Sarah Paulin is just what I want in a CIC and POTUS in waiting.

What are you smoking, Chan?  I thought you more thoughtful than that.  I am genuinely disappointed in you.

"(i.e. he was talking about birth control, not abortion)"

Yeah, Noam, but what about so many in the GOP who mind-boggingly aver that these two are more or less synonymous? This is defined so artificially that it lends credence to the theory that conservatives are against abortion mostly in an abstract way because it allows them to think they're "moral" for opposing abortion so they can sin every day with the thinking that these sins are secondary to abortion and they'll be absolved. Crazy thinking, it may seem, but it possesses a weird logic that's adherent to so many of these GOPers who've so drastically flip-flopped on birth control in the last decade or so.