Oh, log-splitter, Joe, is that the deal, Eve?

All the Democrats favorites either were born rich or got rich, either before they were in office.  Or after:

FDR.  JFK.  Bill.  Even Obama's doing pretty good.

Of the Democratic Pantheon, only Truman was truly financially modest.  Possibly Wilson, but he's not mentioned much by Dems these days.  His policies were too close to George W. Bush's.

Biden sucks. Barack Obama is the one true hope for America. Accept no substitutes.

I'm in favor of Biden myself - I think he would generate a lot of credibility in PA, OH, WV, etc., right where Obama needs it.  The plagiarised speech recalled by Eve is a problem, but remember that Neil Kinnock himself very graciously forgave Biden for it in a way that was favorable for Biden.  In some ways that might play the way McCain's first wife's forgiving attitude has basically made McCain's caddishness a non-issue.  As long as Biden is straight about it (i.e., please don't pull the John Edwards modified limited hangout route), and Kinnock continues to say he understood and was not upset by what Biden did, it might be OK.

ChanRobt: I don't see how your point is relevant to anything. Are you saying that a politician who eventually becomes wealthy loses his credibility? (And who was the last Republican presidential candidate to not be well off - Lincoln?)

Eve, as for the plagiarism scandal, I think McCain would rather not discuss moral failings of 20 years ago. Plagiarism versus taking bribes from Charles Keating - which do you think is worse?

teppy, your pendulum has swung too far the other way with that.  Moderate and sensible is the way to fit in here.  We're decidedly short on star-fuckers on this site.  THe mockery is a little heavy.

I'm in favor of Biden.  Because, he's something of an idiot and a goofball.  And he's sure to say several stupid things in the two months that will embarrass Obama.

Say Joe is so.  Please.

My point, benjamin81, is that Democrats like their presidents rich.

At least modern ones do.

As to Lincoln, he was a wealthy Illinois railroad lawyer.  His poverty and log-splitting was his childhood.

But, let's be real everybody.  Dem or GOP, it's damn hard to make it to the Senate without being rich.  Or to the White House without either personal wealth or a lot of very close ties to the rich and corporate.

Praise where it's due to Obama, he has demonstrated how to raise a lotta cash online from little guys.  That's to the good.  But, I read, and can't verify, that the bulk of his money still comes from deep pockets types.  But, I'm willing to be corrected on that.

Good gracious, bone, I was making fun of myself. "Is joke," as they in Russia.

In Soviet Russia, Obama complains about tep's lack of experience.

I know, teppy.   I was just trying to help you make the joke understood by those who have more to do than we do.   All in good fun, my friend.   And I have had the phrase "star-fucker" in my head for a few days, and wanted to use it.

Phrase?  Hyphenate?  Whatever.  

If not hyphenated, it reads like some tasty frozen treat, or maybe one of those children's toys that can mutate into 27 different variants of fun. If hyphenated, it reads like something from a Queer Studies or Comparative Lit dissertation. Your mileage may vary.

Chan's right on Biden. He's a lovely man, but "gaffe-o-matic" would be an apt description of his public style. And you have to question the judgment of anyone who would cop lines from Neil Kinnock.

Let's face it, folks--the Dems dodged at least two bullets in nominating Obama. Can you imagine what we would do with Edwards' candidacy now? And anyone who still thinks Hillary would have been a better choice should really check out the internal e-mails from her campaign at theatlantic.com. Worse than chaos.

Chan, give me a break. Which of these Republican presidents were born into a broken marriage, raised by their grandparents and spent decades paying off student loans? Bush? Let's keep this in reality for a change.

Aside from the plagarism biz, Biden would be ideal. Strong foreign policy cred, he talks like a real person and he doesn't suffer fools. The only people that care about these "gaffes" are pundits and poltical junkies. Get some perspective, nobody gives a rip.

Where do you want to start mpatrickhendri:

Harding, one of 8 children of an Ohio physician.

Coolidge, a Vermont Yankee from a family prominent for accomplishment, but comfortable, not wealthy by any modern or Gilded Age standard.

Hoover, the Iowa born son of a blacksmith.  A talented minig engineer, he became prosperous as a partner in a mining firm and as a mining consultant.

Dwight Eisenhower.  Born in Texas, raised in Kansas.  The son of a small town family of modest means.  Merit took him to West Point. And merit saw his long, patient rise through the ranks until rising to star rank and prominence just before WW2.

Richard Nixon.  Son of a barely middle class and usually struggling family in Whittier, CA.  His intellect and academic achievement got him into Duke.  Never had serious money until after he lost in '60 and went into private practice.

Gerald Ford.  Born in Omaha, raised in Michigan.  Mother separated from his father in his early infancy.  Mother remarried a businssman in the paint and varnish business.  Ford had a financially comfortable upbringing.

Ronald Reagan.  Born in an apartment in a small Illinois town, his father was an alchoholic and he was raised under very modest circumstances.

George H.W. Bush and George Bush.  Both born into wealthy American aristocracy.

So, mpatrick, I'd say the major trend among Republican presidents is to come from modest to middle means, mainly of Midwestern or straightforward Yankee stock.

The last two Bushes broke that trend.

It just goes to show what I've always maintained, ChanRobt.  Only the rich can help the poor.

Chan, born rich or got rich? Would you pick one? Jesus.

If it's 'got rich' that you loathe, then you have to strike Nixon, Hoover, and Reagan from your list.

If you like 'got rich,' then you have to embrace Clinton and Obama.

If your point is 'Dems like their politicians wealthy, no matter how they got there,' well, it looks like GOPers like their leaders that way also, according to your own list, Hoover, Reagan, Nixon, and now of course, McCain.

What was Lyndon Johnson's background... lemme check... oh, sounds working to middle class to me.

What are you standards? What's your point? Seems to me some leaders are born rich (Bushes, JFK and FDR), some guys are self-made (Clinton, Obama, Reagan, Nixon, Johnson), some of those guys are Dems and some are Republicans.

Can you lend me whatever it is your drinking so I can see this 'trend' you're trying to identify?

Bud does he eat arugula?

mmathog writes, "What was Lyndon Johnson's background... lemme check... oh, sounds working to middle class to me."

LBJ was close to poor, although being as everyone around him in that part of Texas was, he may not have noticed it so acutely.  Johnson married a wealthy girl, and then used his Federal influence to enhance his investments in broadcast stations, etc.  

If you don't count Joe Kennedy's bootlegging, Johnson's were the most ill-gotten of presidential gains.

The trend is that Republican presidents tend to come from the bootstrap and middle classes.  A lot of people who had Main Street values, but were in many cases struggling.

Democrat presidential heroes lean toward the aristocracy.

Republican presidential heroes lean towards the Main Street classes.

Truman, who evolved into a hero, is an exception on the Dem side.  LBJ is a Dem non-person, despite the Civil Rights Act.

Neither of the Bush's are GOP heroes yet.  Nor Nixon.  

Basic point: too many politicians have too damn much money...However they got it....