Let's make a deal, the Turks will support the Armenian Genocide Resolution, as soon as the US even mentions an American-Indian Genocide Resolution.

When Nancy Pelosi championed this nonsense, she was criticized  in these very pages for symbolism, for dissing a NATO ally and the only Muslim nation with truly friendly relations with Israel, for the sake of pandering to constiuents. Memoralizing an event that took place 100 years ago, that didn't involve the United States  

When Obama does it, it's standing up for human rights.  

Its not human rights unless you do something about it. Unless Obama has some necromancer on staff who can raise the dead Armenians and punish the perpetrators from beyond the grave this is all just grandstanding.

It is an important symbol (I argued with commentors about how the House resolution to recognize the Armenian genocide should trump realpolitik arguments made against it at the time).  But...

Ok, I know people think I get all self-righteous and go on and on about Darfur.  But I think one you even tenuously embrace "never again" and are willing to, at least in the abstract, treat Darfur as a genocide (if for no other reason than our government has declared it one and now this speaks to how we deal with genocide as a nation), you have to be disgusted with both of these candidates.  Obama says that Darfur "shames us all" -- um, where is his call for immediate NATO action since everyone else has punted?  Where is the willingness to risk one iota of political capital on this issue?  Plesae don't say he, or anyone else, speaks about Darfur with even a soupcon of urgency.   And yes, McCain is just as bad if not worse.  Judge the candidates on how they respond to the current, ongoing genocide.

dubyadoubt:  When Hillary Clinton called for a temporary gas tax suspension, she was pounced on with criticism.  Yesterday the Dems tried a similarly shortsighted, stupid move of selling more of the strategic oil reserves -- it's possible I missed TNR jumping all over them, but I don't recall it.  

But you're wrong on Pelosi -- we have legions of recognitions of the Holocaust across America.  In Illinois they require that it is taught.  To not do the same for the very genocide Hitler cited as favorable precedence for "people won't remember" is a perversion of our comittment to objective truth.  

Not much point in debating the Armenian genocide - it's long over, you know.  Meanwhile we do nothing about Darfur.

Crowley's a freaking nut.  It was Democrats in Congress that blocked the symbolic resolution last year to mark the Armenian genocide for fear of alienating Turkey.  What's more, Obama never gave a shit about genocide in Iraq; when asked whether it was worthwhile to keep troops in Iraq to prevent a genocide, his response was:

   "Well, look, if that's the criteria by which we are making decisions on the deployment of U.S. forces, then by that argument you would have 300,000 troops in the Congo right now--where millions have been slaughtered as a consequence of ethnic strife--which we haven't done," Obama said in an interview with The Associated Press.

   "We would be deploying unilaterally and occupying the Sudan, which we haven't done. Those of us who care about Darfur don't think it would be a good idea," he said.

Armenians?  What?  We're still arguing about the Armenians?  It costs me a steak dinner to drive to work now and we're still arguing about Armenians?  Are you people serious?

dubya, sorry but bullshit, I praised Pelosi for her action. This resolution in fact is good for Turkey. Turkey has desires to become part of the EU, but the EU isn't letting them partly because of Turkey's refusal to recognize the Armenian massacre, so along come the US as enablers lecturing the Europeans to not alienate Turkey. It is assbackwards. The sooner Turkey does not rage into hysterics about history, the sooner they can become part of the EU, it is either that or they can remain stuck between the West and the insanity of the Middle East.

If Turkey wants to pass a resolution condemning US actions against the Japanese-Americans in WW2, be my guest, and would anybody here rage into hysterics if they did?

Yeah, there are only two questions to be answered with a vote on the Armenian Genocide Resolution:

1. Did the events in question constitute genocide? and

2. Does the Congress of the United States have any business weighing in on this question?

The first question has only one possible answer, a resounding "yes." With apologies to my Turkish friends, two of whom have responded to my own counterargument relating to colonial and later U.S. government treatment of Native Americans by denying that there was any element of genocide there, either.

But the second question admits valid answers in the affirmative and the negative, and neither answer has anything to do with human rights. Simply put, no human's rights will be upheld or denied based on the resolution in question. I'd vote for it, but there are entirely valid reasons for voting against it, too.

Rhubarbs, what then are the valid reasons? Do we want Turkey in the EU or outside? What is the best way to ensure this happens, but coddling Turkey and alienating the Europeans, or by talking straight to Turkey. If you think Turkey should not be part of the EU then tell me why you think this is so as well. Talk about not seeing the forest around here for the tree of hurt Turkish feelings.

I favor Turkey being part of the EU, but a Turkey that is mature and willing to face its past. And yes, this is an important issue. Turkey is a NATO member and a Democratic Muslim state. Reconciling them with the EU is in our best interest.

WOW...some of you people are insane.

Fact is Fact. The Armenian Genocide happened, why should the United States of America, the home of the free, be forced to distort history to appease an ally? If Turkey says 1+1=3 should we all say, YES! Turkey is right, 3 is the answer, we cant afford to alienate an ally who threatens to harm our troops and our business interests because we want to commemorate a fact, a historical event of massive proportions.

And for those of you who think that this has nothing to do with the US, you are mistaken my friends.  The Red Cross, an American institution, deployed its first international mission to help victims of the Armenian Genocide.  The Near East Relief Society raised millions of dollars to aid the orphans and victims...in today's dollars that would be billions.  President Woodrow Wilson had every intention of making Armenia a mandate country, but was blocked by an isolationist Congress.  The Armenian Genocide is one of America's finest hours...the people of America showed tremendous compassion and generosity and now we are forced to deny that involvement and that compassion because a supposed ally cant be offended by the truth.  

Think about it, please, just think about it.  If Germany were to go through a massive political turn- about and its government demanded that we never speak of the Holocaust again or risk losing our military bases, would anyone even think of not talking about the Holocaust?

It amazes me how simplistically some of you think about this issue.  It has nothing to do with appeasing less then 1 million Armenian-Americans in the US and everything to do with drawing a line in the sand when it comes to appeasing an ally, an ally that cannot stand the truth.  And for everyone's information, the US has repeatedly recognized the Armenian Genocide.  Both houses of Congress have passed resolutions (1980's and 1990's) and President's, such as Ronald Reagan, have  discussed the Armenian Genocide openly and honestly.  The US has a responsibility to prevent the denial of history, especially a part of history in which the US played such a large role in.  

With all due respect, blackie, acknowledging or even apologizing for the Armenian genocide won't get Turkey into the EU any more than passing sanctimonious resolutions will bring back the Armenians.

On the other hand, gratuitously insulting the Turks could have a very concrete negative impact on today's Armenia, and the Kurds, and perhaps others. Did they commit genocide? Sure, just like we did against most of the Indians and lots of Europeans did against various Third World colonial societies. Knowing the truth has intrinsic value which I expect the Turks will some day figure out. In the mean time, it's important to avoid what appears to be an endemic problem on the left--confusing talking about a problem with doing something about it.

And Darfur is just fucked. No one is going to do anything. Ditto Congo, Bangladesh, Burma, Zimbabwe, etc. etc.

Bob, I never said it would get them in, just that their refusal to acknowledge it is one of the things that is keeping them out. I believe it is the best thing to do, that doesn't make it gratuitous. For another example, every year the Japanese PM visits that shrine making the Koreans and the Chinese (and the Vietnamese, Philippinos, etc.) all nuts. It is insulting to the Japanese to express our displeasure at their doing so?

If the Japanese could truly recognize their faults that would do them a world of good in the region, and also take away a potent propaganda tool for the Chinese Communists.

Again, I am not talking about insulting the Turks to get our jollies, I truly believe it is the right thing to do. And remember during the cold war the Soviets used to criticize us to the world because of how blacks were treated, I daresay how that resonated in the world had a positive effect on us. How could we claim to lead the free world when we oppressed many of our own people?

aibranossian, I agree with you.

I agree with you entirely that it's in the best interests of the Japs, the Turks, and everybody else to 'fess up and treat history with a little respect. But until they figure it out themselves, it isn't going to work, or count.  There is no serious debate about the actual history, and the Turks know it as well as anyone. As far the EU, I can assure you that most of the many Euros rabidly against Turkish inclusion won't be swayed by any sort of address of historical wrongs. The resistance is a hell of a lot deeper than that, and most Euros don't give a damn about the Armenians if they even know they exist.

I'm much more concerned about Congressional action to address genocides real and potential right now. Political grandstanding, which this and most other such Resolutions are, trivializes the issue, putting it on the level of National Seafood Week and the like.

Bob, if it is nothing more than political grandstanding, then why the fuss? You can't say the resolution is a terrible thing sending the region into disarray, yet trivialize it at the same time. I think you are infantilizing the Turkish people as being so weak willed that the country will fall apart due to a simple congressional resolution. If Congress has such power then they should make a resolution that the Sunnis and Shias will love each other.

Mr. Powell, you clearly have no grasp of the issue here.  The Republic of Turkey and many of its ill-informed citizens regularly and passionately deny that the Armenian Genocide took place.  In fact, students in public schools are required to write an exit essay, one of the topics is the "alleged" Armenian genocide and why it is a lie fabricated by Diasporan Armenians. The government of Turkey is ingraining historical revisionism into the very fabric of Turkish society...all the while, people like you, and governments like our current one here in the US stand by and let it happen by trivializing the importance of reaffirming a historical reality.

And by the way, Europeans are very well aware of Armenia, Armenians, and the Armenian Genocide.  With the exception of the UK, almost all major European nations have reaffirmed the Armenian Genocide, France has gone so far as to propose that denying the Armenian Genocide a crime, much like how denying the Holocaust is a crime in France. Now, I wouldnt go so far as to suggest that is what should be the case, but its an example of how "known" the Armenians are in Europe.

What's disturbing about your comments is that you are not arguing based on rational ideas, rather it seems like you simply want to belittle history at any cost and with any argument.  Congress passes resolutions, joint resolutions, bills, amendments, and all sorts of binding and non-binding LEGISLATION! So by your logic, all that is passed by Congress is trivial because some of the resolutions, like National Seafood Week, are meaningless and pandering.  Who exactly is Congress pandering to when it passes an Armenian Genocide resolution? The roughly 1 million plus American-Armenians living across a country of 300 million plus? Have you seen the members of the House who supported the latest resolution? The vast majority come from districts where not even 1 Armenian lives...Oh that's right, the Armenians flood money into the coffers of legislators and buy their votes....because you know all Armenians are uber rich...ya, why dont you take a look at opensecrets.org and see how many Armenians have donated to members of Congress.  If its more then $100K in the past year I will buy you a steak dinner.  Its easy to do the search, most Armenians have last names that end in ian or yan, like mine.

Mr. Powell, the only thing that trivializes the Armenian Genocide resolution is people like yourself who are eager to let history be distorted, truth be denied, and for facts to be diluted.  Whats the next demand that Turkey is going to make? No more access to Incrilik military base unless Americans stop talking about the Kurds? Or how about the Cypriots? The Greeks? Where do we draw the line when it comes to a foreign country dictating to us, the American people and its government, what it can and cant talk about?