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COLUMNISTS
TODAY'S STORIES
24.07.2008
Am I Selling Americans Short re: The Obama Speech?

Related: A Slideshow from Barack Obama's trip abroad

My friends at the Economist, who always seem to cringe when I riff on the parochialism of the average American--have taken me to task for suggesting that the post-nationalist vibes from Obama's Berlin speech might not go down so well in Ohio:

It has been a bad eight years for Atlanticists, when many out there now assume European and American distaste for each other, and that European affection for an American must be zero-sum—that it will cost him an equal amount of affection at home. Or that an American's pride in his country is similarly zero-sum, costing him among Europeans. I don't think this image costs Mr Obama, on net. It is truly a churlish, and in my opinion rare, American who actually takes pride when an American president is protested, jeered and hissed at abroad.

Then, in a particularly low blow, the Economist-blogger introduces some numbers:

But since Mr Scheiber and I have opposite gut feelings about this, some data would be helpful. From Pew:

More than seven-in-ten Americans (71%) say that the United States is less respected by other countries these days, up from 65% in August 2006.

For the first time since Pew began asking this question in 2004, a majority of Americans now sees the loss of international respect for the United States as a major problem. The percentage of Americans saying the loss of international respect is a major problem has risen from 43% in 2005 to 48% in 2006 and 56% currently.

The most recent national survey by the Pew Research Center for the People & the Press, conducted May 21-25 among 1,505 adults, finds that majorities of Democrats (81%), independents (72%) and Republicans (60%) believe that the United States has lost global respect in recent years.

In particular, Republican opinion about international respect for America has shifted substantially over the past two years. A clear majority of Republicans (60%) now say the nation is less respected in the international community, an increase of 12 points since August 2006. Moreover, 43% of Republicans say the loss of global respect represents a major problem, compared with just 26% two years ago.

Fair enough. It's unquestionably true that most Americans want the rest of the world to think better of them. On the other hand, it's also true that, if asked whether they'd vote for a man whose father was Kenyan, who lived in Indonesia as a child, and who seems more popular in Germany than in rural Pennsylvania, a majority would probably say no. The second question is highly-selective about the information it includes and generally biased in the extreme. But it's the kind of question the GOP wants to put before voters this fall. In analyzing the Berlin appearance, I think you have to ask (among other things) whether it shifts the discussion--and voters' impressions--toward the first point or the second. My concern is that it shifts it toward the second.

--Noam Scheiber

Posted: Thursday, July 24, 2008 4:58 PM with 36 comment(s)

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ndmackenzie said:

It took me only two words to recognize this was not a Kirchick post - "My friends."

July 24, 2008 5:23 PM

miceelf said:

Yes.

July 24, 2008 5:35 PM

kj_593 said:

Is it me or did TNR and its staff get hit HARD by the concern troll?  This whiny handwringing over what some people may or may not think is just getting disconcerting.  How about focusing some attention on McCain and his vision for America (or lack thereof)?  Or his disjointed record? Or the quality of media coverage each is receiving and how it is impacting the polling (Obama has more, but the quality sucks; McCain has the opposite problem)?

Anything but this concern trolling....

July 24, 2008 5:39 PM

blackton said:

How about would they vote for a man who was born in Panama, who is a cancer survivor in his seventies, who has a reputation as a shameless womanizer and philanderer, and who promises to continue the failed policies of the worst President in American history.

Why the hell is this only a referendum on Obama? Why don't they just take McCain's name off the ballot and let people vote yes or no for Obama.

I am starting to think Obama should come back from this trip, take a 3 week vacation and leave the spotlight completely on McCain, his ghostly pallor, scary grin, utterly snark filled speeches might be a rude awakening. 4 years of Obama might be a lot of things, they won't be boring. McCain, on the other hand, will be both personally boring and clueless. His only agenda is Iraq.

Take a vacation Obama, let McCain wither under the spotlight. It ain't 2000 anymore, his glory days are over.

July 24, 2008 5:41 PM

GSpinks said:

"In analyzing the Berlin appearance, I think you have to ask (among other things) whether it shifts the discussion--and voters' impressions--toward the first point or the second. My concern is that it shifts it toward the second."

Where it ultimately shifts I think depends largely on the efforts the campaigns to expound on the significance of the trip; yeah, another battle of the "postures".

What I see from the trip is that Obama can come back and say "See, I *can* get up infront of the world, and argue my case, and not make a fool of myself despite my youth and relative inexperience."

As has been mentioned repeatedly, he has his work cut out for him this fall, because America absolutely seems to want a Democrat in office. This leaves him with the task of selling himself. To this end, selling himself by showing that he can get it done without having decades of experience under his belt, I think the trip is going to be well worth the effort.

July 24, 2008 5:44 PM

blackton said:

mac, that was funny.

July 24, 2008 5:47 PM

GSpinks said:

I almost forgot...

Noam, you can "riff" on the "low-information" voters all you want. :)

July 24, 2008 5:50 PM

lymon1 said:

I'm just reading through TNR-O now, but was nobody else put off by the fleeting mention of the Darfur genocide IN FUCKING BERLIN?!?!?!  

July 24, 2008 5:57 PM

achester99 said:

ndmackenzie it's not kirchick you biased fool

July 24, 2008 6:00 PM

achester99 said:

And the reason your comment especially makes no sense is because no one on TNR more frequently says "my friend" and name drops than Peretz, and if Kirchick is a minime of Peretz as you love to claim, then why wouldn't he do so, as well?

July 24, 2008 6:05 PM

blackton said:

achester, you misread ndmac, she said she knew it was NOT Kirchick because of the line "My friends"

I will grant that little bit of snark might have been uncalled for and have nothing to do with the post, but I found it funny.

lymon, why would he talk about Darfur in Berlin? It would have made more sense for him to do that in Israel, no?

July 24, 2008 6:14 PM

GSpinks said:

"...the fleeting mention of the Darfur genocide..."

Should he compare and contrast the list of attrocities and death toll, and give his opinion on whom suffered more and which is the greater humanitarian crisis?

July 24, 2008 6:21 PM

scire said:

kj593, I've written basically the same thing on a few other threads.

I.am.just.so.tired.of.the.nail.bite.ing.

Blackton, I find myself agreeing with you yet again: he needs to take time off for the reason you say, but also so the media can get a much needed rest. Maybe after they have to cover McCain exclusively for a coupla weeks, they'll realize how ridiculous they've been to criticize and parse every other breath the guy's been expelling. Maybe they'll be able to tell the difference between filet mignon and salisbury and get back to more meaningful reporting.

July 24, 2008 6:29 PM

blackton said:

achester, I reread what I wrote and ndmac means that Kirchick has NO friends, so it is impossible for him to say "my friends." Ok, enough over analysis.

July 24, 2008 6:45 PM

ndmackenzie said:

achester99 -

I was mocking the comments on The Plank regarding the number of words it takes to identify one of Kirchick's idiosyncratic posts - and I have posted at least one of them myself. There was an element of truth to my comment - required for it to be amusing - in that Kirchick has few friends at The New Republic other than the most important ones who continue to allow him to write here.

July 24, 2008 7:01 PM

thejauntyboulevardier said:

mack...

I thought it was very funny though, to be honest, it does seem rather mean of us to be highlighting the very real  possibility that among the crew at TNR, kirchick is probably friendless. He does have marty though I wonder how much consolation that is when guys like Chait and others openly dismantle his posts and show their contempt while doing it....no wonder he seems and reads like a lonely boy tyring too hard to make a friend...

Still, it was funny, and was achester's ass-backwards reading of your post.

July 24, 2008 7:30 PM

tomeg said:

Noam, you're obsessing beyond the call of duty. I know it's what The Stump says it's all about (obsessing)  but enough already. I mean, do you really think average American voter is going to want to take time today, tomorrow, or the weekend to reflect on Obama's speech today or consider the symbolism of his trip?

July 24, 2008 8:10 PM

tomeg said:

"...idiosyncratic..."

how kind.

July 24, 2008 8:14 PM

ChanRobt said:

blackton your "a man who was born in Panama" is one of the more fatuous things you've ever written here.

Are you arguing we should call home all our diplomats, military people, and business execs from anywhere else on the planet lest they endanger the American bonafides of their children born abroad?

July 24, 2008 8:14 PM

ramboorider said:

After the last two elections, how can you possibly sell Americans short?

We may get this election right, but for what I consider to be all the wrong reasons. If you're voting for Obama because of the cost of gas (which way too many "low information" voters will do), I don't think you're gonna be happy with the result.

July 24, 2008 8:18 PM

scire said:

i think ChanRobt, he was speaking ironically? It certainly wouldn't be any more outragous than the people who have been poring over Obama's birth certificate for clues to its forgery, or making claims of fradulent prescient birth announcements, or people who  insist that Obama cannot be a Christian because his father was a Muslim and his middle name was Hussein.

July 24, 2008 8:23 PM

blackton said:

thank you scire. that is right, I am just rewriting the preposterous things Schieber wrote onto an anti-McCain angle. Channy,  you know my two sons were born in China but are American citizens so you know what I meant so I know you are just pulling my leg.

And what do you mean "more fatuous"? That implies that I have ever said anything fatuous in my entire life. Why I never....

July 24, 2008 9:45 PM

cspencef said:

blackton, Republicans don't get irony, you should know that by now.

July 24, 2008 10:04 PM

lymon1 said:

GSpinks: Are there some other officially declared genocides by his own U.S. senate he should bring up in the site of the 1936 Olympics and capital of Nazi Germany, I  missed it.  It was a perfect oportunity to rally attention and especially Europe to actually accomplish something.  Instead, he put in a six word cover-my-ass Darfur name-check.  Yeah, he's real ashamed.  Look at Berlin indeed if you want to know why no American presidential candiddate will sacrifice one iota of political capital to save black Africans, even a skinny one with a funny sounding name.  

July 24, 2008 10:27 PM

tomeg said:

"Barack, you need to choose your references to genocides more carefully, e.g., watch out for that one (or is it two, or three?) in Africa. (Remember, the world is listening.) Think of an inverted pyramid, where European genocides in the more distant past take precedence. You are in a designated genocidal zone in Germany, please take note next time, if there is a next time."

July 24, 2008 11:57 PM

tomeg said:

Geez, lymon, would you rather that Obama said nothing about genocide? Do you think Nazi atrocities speak to the consciences of current generation Berliners more loudly and distinctly than Darfur? IIRC, Obama was speaking to a larger audience than but those assembled.

Obama does like the rhetorical flourish since he's so adept at it, but that doesn't make him a Holocaust denier or whatever you had in mind.

We all get a bug up our ass at times, but man,  you really work it.

July 25, 2008 12:32 AM

gregstolhand said:

Regarding being born in Panama, I think it is very suspicious that a American Presidential candidate would be born there, not very American and I am not saying he is a Anti-American Panamanian sympathizer but I do not KNOW if that is true.

July 25, 2008 8:24 AM

lymon1 said:

Tomeg:  In a way yes -- either freaking pretend to mean what you say about Darfur being a genocide (i.e., pretend to treat black Africans as full human beings) or shut the hell up. Where in the world do you get that I accused him of being a "holocaust denier"?  I've accused him of flip-flopping on Darfur since he appeared with Samantha Power at the 2005 rally in D.C.  I've accused him of dropping the issue like a hot potato since he anounced his candidacy.  He said Darfur "shames us all" -- if you think he acts like it by never raising the issue more than burrying a throwaway lip service line in the "poster child" location for the history genocide, that's pretty sad too.  Obama had a chance to make a specific call to action, let alone cast a shitload more light on the issue.  He chose not to.  To put my post in context, I've ad nauseum written that John McCain is no better and that I'm voting for Obama, but presuming all these denials about him being a messianic figure are true, I still have the right to judge him accordingly.  

So yes, let's look at Berlin wrt Darfur.  Let's look at the candidates too.  Yup, lots has changed -- the skin color of the genociders (if not the skin color of those who turn their backs).  

July 25, 2008 10:01 AM

achester99 said:

I know this is silly, but I didn't misread the original comment. Let us all overanalyze: The words "My friend..." usually indicate a navel-gazing name-dropping arrogance is about to emerge. That's all.

July 25, 2008 10:28 AM

ChanRobt said:

scire, blackie-- I'm a dummy re the Panama thing.  (Although there is an attorney out there seriously pursuing the premise that McCain is not as "natural born citizen" as required either by the Constittuion or some 1938 law.

Now I'm as stupid as the Lefties who went ballistic over The New Yorker cover and which gave me such a big, big laugh.

Poetic justice.

July 25, 2008 10:47 AM

michael said:

I'm mostly with Spinks again.  But even if Obama doesn't cite his new cred, the trip immunized against the attacks that were reflex and would be part of McCain's Fall Show.  

The best way to hold the line and spread the defense? Sid Gillman invented it. Throw deep, complete a couple & you won't see eight linemen stacked in a box. Then run at will.

At worst, Barack squandered a week and he has a dozen weeks left to pound it out at home.  I don't consider that profligate. Considering he secured a deadline from Iraq?  That alone is a nice profit form any weeks effort. McCain can't erase the fact that Iraq sign on to get us out.

The crowds, his words and what some guy at the Economist thinks?  In July?  Nope, what he did after Baghdad will not matter. But in October and November, talkin' to The Commanders one thing that McCain can't claim he did not do.

It is done, move on with brutality and grace.

Seems simple to me...

July 25, 2008 11:22 AM

Cannedace said:

You guys made my day!

July 25, 2008 1:23 PM

singlespeed said:

Tep...

We see eye to eye on somethings and other things we disagree on. Whether its the means to the end or not by in large there's an understanding that each person has valid reasons for thinking the way they do. I preferred Obama to Hillary only because I was ready to say goodbye to the Clintons. I'm a "just-left-of-center" Democrat and have been before I could vote. I read Obama's speech in Berlin and it's truly tepid water. But I think too many people attached far more desire of symbolism to the speech than was warranted. His choice of venue in Berlin could have been better. Perhaps on the site of the old Stasi headquarters. Be that as it may, I have always been skeptical of politicians and there have been few that I have truly liked because they got things done. Much like you my list is short and most of them have been or are from my home state (much of that is state pride).  Romer, Udall, Nighthorse-Campbell, Salazar, Hart, Lamb, Pena, DeGette, Wirth, Hickenlooper. But I also recognize that Obama has to operate along a fuzzy line of substance/nonsubstance because of the nature of the game. Be that as it may, I'll wager in the end, that Obama's and more correctly the Democratic agenda will be far more amenable to the working people of America than John McCain and 4 more years of Republicans drowning the American people in the bathtub of crony capitalism and big business handjobs. I know you voted for Obama but I get the sense you've been holding your nose ever since. Fine.

But your use of the " I'm just a poor working man" schtik is running low on gas. You're not the only one who has concerns about UHC, Social Security, education, etc. I'm also growing tired of the "single urban hipster" straw man you throw out as the enemy of every interest of every working suburban family out there. As if that were the case. I hate to break it to you pal but it ain't necessarily so. No one demographic has a lock on the word "working", being financially stretched, or having had some rough times in their lives, going without health care all together, or having the luxury of owning a vehicle. I can make far more stronger arguments about how suburban families inactively work for their own demise without actually accepting the repercussions of their own decisions while they blame everyone else for the way things are.

I've never had anything handed to me, I work hard, save my money, drive a bland, boring Toyota, ride a bike and live in a not so great, 1940s apartment in a quiet suburban neighborhood outside of DC. It's not permanent, it was not by choice but necessity, and I don't wear Strokes t-shirts and hang out with indie bands and wannabe "free-lance" graphic artists. I spend as much time with my niece and nephew as I can, I'm ready to remarry and finally start a family as well. I make decisions based on my own personal choice but also weighing things against the bigger picture of what's right. But It seems every time you have a problem with the Democratic party and most especially Obama and his sometimes empty rhetoric, you post about what he hasn't done and then fall back on blaming the single folks for all your worries in life.

Perhaps if everyone could actually see beyond just the sphere of themselves and also see the bigger picture then we can possible get on with trying to work towards actual solutions to the problems that face a lot of Americans like UHC, affordable housing, affordable and reliable transportation (public and private), quality public schools & proper funding to make it happen, better quality communities, environmental protection, energy reliability and security, etc., etc.. in what ever way you think you can actually affect change.

I believe the author Paul Erlich said "If you wait for the politicians to come up with a solution to your problems then you won't like the solutions."

July 25, 2008 1:53 PM

GSpinks said:

"It was a perfect oportunity to rally attention and especially Europe to actually accomplish something.  Instead, he put in a six word cover-my-ass Darfur name-check. "

So much for him not being President, eh? McCain criticises him for taking a "victory lap", and you think he needs to actually rally the world to action before he's elected.

...that pungent smell is called bull shit, and its coming from your posts...

July 25, 2008 2:04 PM

tomeg said:

Ok, lymon, I get your point, and your anger. But why unload double barrels on Obama in particular, on this occasion? As tep has endlessly carped that Obama is a pol, though an extraordinarily talented and gifted one, most of us here (I think) would agree that he's no Messiah in waiting. Much as I was thrilled to hear him say "we need a new politics" I understood that mostly what he had in mind was a new B.S. But that is what politics, new or old, requires of a politician: cleverness, cunning, and yes, to an uncomfortable degree, hypocrisy. "He who lives by the sword, dies by the sword." But, in politics, he who is without a sword shall surely perish.

As I said, though, I get your point and your anger.

I didn't accuse you of being a Holocaust denier, I was suggesting by exaggeration that possibly you were overreacting.

July 25, 2008 4:15 PM

Robert Powell said:

First Obama gets slammed for not fixing the gas prices yet, now because he hasn't organized a Darfur Rescue Force. The guy's an obvious slacker.

I'm interested in the fact that CNNInternational is only showing the clip of his "I know my country hasn't perfected itself..." paragraph, completely omitting the "how much I love America" part. TV buffs will recognize the setting not as a monument to the Prussian victory over France in 1870, but as the stage for The Love Parade.

I think it's been a valuable trip.  Brutality and grace, like michael said.

July 25, 2008 4:36 PM