The truth is, Harvard Boy, Obama, probably doesn't give much of a damn more for ghetto black people than he does for redneck PA white people.  

They are, the bunch of them, after all, hugging their bibles, guns, and crack instead of perfecting their command of a second language.  Like all Europeans do.

Has it occurred to Obama, that Europeans speak multiple languages, not because they are morally superior, but because, not having the benefit of a continent wide common language, they have to.

During the Roman Empire, most Europeans spoke Latin.  Presumably, Julius Caesar could easily have therefore mastered Spanish or Italian.  French, of course, would be a little harder.

Jackson was absolutely wrong. He would have been right if Obama didn't - as he does continuously - say that yes, the government/society has failed the inner city schools, etc. as well. He did it in his Selma speech to name one example off the top of my head. And honestly, the whole context of the individual responsibility drum is that you can't just blame all your problems on the government; you have to do what you can where you can or you'll never get anywhere. Never ever ever did he say "it's all your fault". Never. And it's not a "move away from" the government's failure to point out where people can - and need to - take charge of their own lives. Both are true and not remotely mutually exclusive.

This is not a situatiton where he said the right thing the wrong way. It wasn't right to begin with. JJ should acknowledge that at some point.

Right, Chan.  That explains why he decided to become a community organizer in Chicago.  Good Lord, take a look at Obama's biography and then take a look at what you just wrote.

And Obama's been saying this stuff for years.  It's not part of any "move to the center,"

Um...what?  Chan?  Perhaps I'm missing something, but what the hell does any of this have to do with speaking a second language?  Am I parsing something incorrectly?  Does "move to the center" mean "foist German upon us"?  Because, unless there's a subtext lost on me, your post seems to make no sense, and be apropos of nothing.

Also Chan, as to the language issue, the point is not that Europeans are morally superior to us.  You're right that they learn multiple languages out of necessity, but so what?  It doesn't matter *why* they speak more languages.  Speaking multiple languages is a competitive advantage that we could easily teach our kids, but don't.  The fact that every kid in Europe can do it seems to suggest that ours could as well if we actually made the effort to teach it (and teach it early.  waiting until middle school or high school to start is idiotic).

dr dan,

The Everything Obama Does Is Bad Brigade is OUTRAGED! today over Obama's endorsement of foreign language study. (Can you believe the nerve on this guy? What an elitist!)

Since they have nothing, they have to attack everything.

Folks, chill out. Chan is just demonstrating for us the rhetorical contortions required to attack Obama. It's tricky to raise the "kids should learn Spanish" thing without reminding everybody that McCain wants to give citizenship to 15 million outlaw migrants and then invite millions more Spanish-speaking unskilled workers across the border. Really the only way you can raise this sort of "Obama isn't really an American" attack without reminding everybody that "amnesty" is John McCain's middle name is through the careful use of non sequitur. Thus Chan's free verse flow from elitism to arrogance to the Spanish thing and then quickly back to Europhilia.

teaching a second language is good educational practice, even if there is no need to speak another language for practical reasons (although even here, it's becoming more pragmatic to learn a second language: i.e., Spanish). Studying other langauges improves comprehension of English grammar, vocabulary, and syntax -- and by extension writing and thinking skills -- even when the learner doesn't become fluent.

some highly visible supporters are worried that Obama’s move to the center is a move away from urban issues and the community suffering from those issues

Funny, I elect a president to watch over all Americans' interests, not just 5' 10" guys in their mid-30's working in the financial field.  I guess that's what they mean when Obama's gonna be the first black president.  He's gonna watch out for his bruthas only.

Here's an urban issue for you: Stay in school, get a freaking job, stop killing each other and smoking crack, and stop getting women pregnant and dumping them.

Psanti is right--"it was wrong to begin with".  But it's important to look at the REASON it was wrong. It's not just that it ignores Obama's actual record. As Crowley's endorsement of castration underlines, jj was fighting for turf. The Victim Industry won't go down without a fight, and maybe even a few electronic lynchings could be in the offing.

No group in American political life is more conservative than lefty Democrats.

The teaching of a foreign language issue reminds me of an old Texas political story which may or may not be true.   The legislature passed a bill appropriating money to teach foreign languages in the high schools.  The Governor vetoed it.  (I don't remember if it was Pappy O'Daniel or Pa Ferguson or one of the other rubes who occasionally rose to the top of Texas politics).  At any rate, the governor's reason for the veto was; "If the English language was good enough for Jesus Christ, it is good enough for the school children of Texas"

I'm more than suspicious of this article for the simple fact that Obama isn't moving back to the center ("ome highly visible supporters are worried that Obama’s move to the center is a "); like it or not, Obama is saying the exact same things now that he was a year ago. Go youtube any of the 20+ debates and watch for yourself.

It seems to me that the major problem is the MSM is chock-full of morons who spend far too much time editorializing/analyzing (and poorly), and far too little time reporting the facts and details (punishing nuance at every step).

So, I missed something.  Did Obama suggest a mandate that Americans learn another language?  Or did he simply suggest that it was a good idea?  Because if it's the latter, is seems that only anti-intellectual jingoistic types would disagree.

Great anecdote stanmvp48! Here's on more pile-on for Chan. Didn't Jesus speak Aramaic? He lived in the Roman Empire, too (not the European part, but consider that Greek was more commonly spoken than Latin in the eastern half of the Empire, which included part of Europe).

Actually, it do make him wrong.

Easter's last line is interesting, "It don't make him wrong though."  Surely, this was not an editor's oversight.  Both Easter and his editor certainly are very familiar with verb-subject agreement rules.  Exactly what message and to what audience was was this corporate executive communicating by choosing this incorrect construction?  

"Presumably, Julius Caesar could easily have therefore mastered Spanish or Italian.  French, of course, would be a little harder." Julius could not have mastered any of these languages unless, of course, he were doing a guest spot of The Twilight Zone.

jhildner, terrible, it should be "it do makes him wrong"

Everyone from Kindergarten on should learn a foreign language, preferably Spanish or Mandarin Chinese, forget German (I studied in Austria, never used my German since).

dhuey0, the message was "I speak in dialect, therefore I have folksy common sense." Meh.

Robert Powell: Do you think jj knows he was wrong and is cynically shilling for the victim industry? I don't - I think he's been marinating in that mindset, and operates from it as a reflex. To think that he's being cynical, that he really knows better, would be to say that he wants to keep the people he allegedly cares about in a culture of blame, eternal dependence, and poverty. I wouldn't go that far. I think he really does not know better, and is so primed to criticize the establishment that his hackles are raised by any - ANY - talk of individual responsibility. Like he sees "individual responsibility" as code for blaming the victim, period. To the point that he is blind to the context Obama continually places it in. I hope he learns this from this nut-cut incident. I'm sure Obama will see too it, in fact. At least privately.

Dead right Psanti.  "Convictions are more dangerous to truth than lies",  per Nietzche.

Shouldn't that be, "It do be makin' him wrong"?  Does Ebonics still count for foreign language credits?

All right, gang, I took three years of Latin and three or four of Spanish and one of French.  Most of the people I know who got a college education or went to a decent high school, did a similar amount of language study.

But, for all that, I don't speak a second language fluently, partly because I'm not particularly adept at foreign languages.  And mainly because I have little need or opportunity to use a language other than English.

My wife went to the Sorbonne for a year and was once fairly fluent in French,but no more.  I'm sure our experiences are shared by millions of Americans who have no cause to use whatever second languages they may have acquired.

My point is, American education goes to pretty good lengths to teach other languages.  At least two years of a foreign language is a requirement for liberal arts majors in most state universities, not to mention the elite ones.  And anyone on a college prep track in an American high school is required to take a foreign language for at least two years, usually four.

So, Obama, is first of all wrong.  

But worse, his "embarrassment" that Europeans all speak a second language fluently and Americans don't is a fatuous cliché that I've heard from pretentious dorks all my life.

And, it's a stupid observation for the reason I originally pointed out.  Europeans speak more than one language out of necessity, not because they are inherently better educated.  Or, as is implied by this track of thought, morally superior.

Meanwhile, Obama has exposed his fatuous elitist pretensions several times now.  And, as far as his community work in Chicago, BFD.  As far as I can see, it was, like his membership in a politically influential black church, part of his plan to establish his much needed black street cred.

kireland8, you missed my joke.  But, you don't post here often enoughto know my sense of humor.

Yes, I am aware that the Julius Caesar riff was an anachronism.

blackie, for reminding me.  I took a semester of German in college.  Ran back to Spanish as fast as my legs could carry me.

jwharton, since Jesus had no ambitions to succeed in Rome, I doubt he learned much Latin.  Suspect he knew a phrase of two, though.  It was on all the coins, for starters.

I believe that any educated Roman citizen anywhere in the Empire, would at least be able to read and write Latin.  Certainly it would have been a big advantage, just as English fluency is now.

Latin was the lingua franca of its time.  Now English is.  Maybe Mandarin will be someday.  Although,  believe most Chinese can't speak Mandarin and that Chinese is only a common language in written form, not spoken.

Which is why the various moves to push for the United States to be a bilingual nation is so moronic.  To what end?  Look at all the problems it has created for Canada?

I ain't gonna be learnin no Spanish

Chan, learning a new language is far, far easier as a child than in high school or college.  The earlier you start, the better.  Our education system is fundamentally misguided about this.  The thinking is that learning a foreign language is hard, so we should wait to teach is like we do for other hard stuff (e.g. we don't try teaching quantum mechanics at age 5).  The problem with this reasoning is that learning foreign languages is so hard in large part *because* we wait until so late in late (relatively speaking)  Most people don't graduate college with anytthing close to fluency in a foreign language.  If schools required fluency, far fewer students would graduate in 4 years.  Unlike a lot of the things we teach our kids in school, learning a foreign language (i.e. becoming fluent in it)  has real, direct benefits.  We do the kids in question a disservice by putting it off so long.

As to your claim that Obama's work as a community organizer was a cynical play to establish black street cred for a future political run, realize that a) Obama moved to Chicago straight out of college to become a community organizer and didn't run for office until 10 years after that, which, if it was intended as a political ploy, demonstrates a ridiculous amount of foresight, and b) you're essentially saying that Obama doesn't care about poor black people on the basis of a single statement he made about a completely different group, and saying that that is more convincing evidence than the years he spent  working with poor black people.  That, to be frank, is utter bullshit.  I'd say it was the most absurd thing I'd read hear in a while, but some of the more inane posts of the past couple days spare it that distinction.

AlanSP, agree completely that if we are going to teach second languages, it ought to start much earlier than high school or middle school.

As to Obama's intentions when he started his community work, you're right, I can't really know his heart.

But, given he had two Ivy degrees, one in law, i doubt he intended to work the streets forever.  And given that he is known to have been anxious to establish his "black" credentials, hence the particular church he joined 20 years ago, I'm not so certain my cynicism is unwarranted.

He seems like a hell of an ambitious man to me.  That doesn't usually come upon you out of nowhere at age 40.  The very fact that he is running for president with so few qualifications and so little experience is proof enough of his ambition.

Give me an Eisenhower, who worked a long time in obscurity as a military officer, proving himself in the crucible of war.  And not ascending to the presidency until age 63.  And proved to be one of the wisest, most effective presidents of the last 100 years.  I like Jack Kennedy for hissparkling talent.  But, he could easily be judged a disaster.

"And anyone on a college prep track in an American high school is required to take a foreign language for at least two years, usually four."

That's not true, Chan. I am in college now after not having taken a language at all at my high school, although I am prettly fluent in Hebrew.

Chan--

You must be joking--a non-ambitious POTUS?  If you think Ike wasn't an ambitious guy, I've got some summer reading assignments for you to catch up on.

Robert P, yes I understand that Ike was ambitious.  But, he also earned his presidency through real accomplishment of the highest order.

And Jack Kennedy to whom Obama is ridiculously compared, was far less callow than Barack.

the change in America will not come about because of what whites want or what Obama is promising to deliver.

It is Hispanics that will change America most profoundly.  At least in terms of the old white/black polarity.  

Hispanics can care less about black suffering under slavery or from Reconstruction through the Civil Rights Act.  It is a history that is almost entirely irrelevant to them.

in thirty years or so, the only people who will care about black grievances will be old white people and blacks themselves.  And probably not even many of them anymore.

rozenson, i'd be interested to know where you went to high school.  

Of course, I wouldn't be surprised to learn that the requirements of even a college prep regimen have been degraded considerably since I was in high school in the 60s.

For which we can thank the 60s.

Channy, most people in China speak Mandarin, I travelled thoughout the country, it is the language of TV and in schools. You forget the crucial reason why we should learn a foreign language early, it is the same reason we learn many subjects we will never use in our adult life, to learn how to think and because we don't know what our future will be. Americans who speak Mandarin will be more successful doing business with China because they can build up rapport much quicker, going through translators is a drag and most high powered Chinese execs. are not going to want to have to speak English to some foreigner who wants to do business with them. My speaking Chinese gave me access to meet a lot of interesting people, people I wouldn't have met otherwise.

Another reason to learn is because I met my wife that way.

Last thing, I visited the US last year and went to the dentist, in the waiting room and a Chinese family was there, so I had a nice chat in Chinese with them, and on top of that the receptionist spoke Spanish so I alternated between speaking Spanish and Chinese (these are the only other languages I can converse in). So yeah, I admit it was kind of cool to impress strangers, and believe you me, I have more than enough opportunities to speak either Spanish or Chinese in the states often. Maybe it won't make me money but so what?

Chan, we get that you don't think that Americans should learn a second language, except that you also think that if they don't, that's a sign of intellectual decline in our public institutions, which is OK, because we don't expect conservative-leaning people to make sense. But if Obama is bad for urging second-language learning, then what do you think about McCain's desire to give citizenship to 15 million outlaw migrants and to create European-style "guest worker" programs to do for Mexicans in America what Berlin's guest worker program did for Turks in Germany?

For what it's worth (and it ain't much), I speak Russian.  Woo-hoo!

Rhubs, a guest worker program need not replicate Germany's mistakes.  The key difference should be that only the worker gets to come - no families, and for only a fixed period of time.  Then that worker has to go home.  The Germans have millions of disenfranchised (mostly) Turks because they didn't do it this way.

Chan wrote:  He seems like a hell of an ambitious man to me.  That doesn't usually come upon you out of nowhere at age 40.  The very fact that he is running for president with so few qualifications and so little experience is proof enough of his ambition.

----

Then that would make him a lot like another young, relatively inexperienced former state senator from Illinois who won the presidency primarily on the strength of his vision and inspiring rhetoric.  

Which is not to say that I think BO might be our next Lincoln...  but certainly, history proves that having grand ambition from an early age is neither character defect, nor disqualification for leadership.

Right now Russian is staging a resurgence in Europe butchie, and for good reasons.

When I first came to Poland Russian was mandatory-- English, you had to pay for your own lessons and taking them was a mark against you unless you were in the KGB. Unsurprisingly, if one knows the Poles, absolutely no one would speak to me in Russian, but EVERYBODY was delighted to speak to me in English (once they figured out it wasn't German). Learning Polish was difficult not least because it was usually quickly apparent that their English was a lot better than my Polish, and the fierce imperative of "communication now!" took over.

Currently, Russian is a good language for business here, usually in conjunction with English of course. It's the lingua franca from here to the Pacific, and this is the first place going West that one can find a reasonably reliable legal system. Being in the middle is traditionally risky, and profitable. Check it out.

Just a point of order, but Obama went back for his JD after having worked as an organizer for several years. Here is the info off of his Facebook page:

Education Info

Grad School: Harvard '91

Law

Colleges: Columbia '83

Political Science, with a concentration in International Relations

Occidental '83

I'm going to have to disagree with those who think he just did it to establish his street cred, thankyouverymuch.