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COLUMNISTS
TODAY'S STORIES
13.06.2008
Kathleen Sebelius: Too Nice a Woman to Be VP?

The Fix's Chris Cillizza, in his case against Kathleen Sebelius:

With Clinton now formally gone from the race, her most fervent female supporters have taken up the cause of putting her on the ticket as the vice president. To snub Clinton in favor of another woman -- Sebelius -- would be a slight that many women might not be able to reconcile themselves to.

When I first heard about this sentiment from pro-Hillary women, it struck me as nuts. Why had Hillary won the right to be ahead of other women in achieving veep or presidential status any more than Joe Lieberman won a right to be ahead of other qualified Jews by mounting his bid in 2004? (God forbid.) And the complaint among these supporters that they loved Hillary and Hillary alone and she is not interchangeable with any other woman, while totally legitimate, seems to be at odds with the simultaneously-made claim that Hillary represented all women and that her loss was especially galling because it revealed how the country or the party is unwilling to give a woman a chance at high office. (If this is the complaint, then another woman would be to some extent interchangeable.)

I've been dipping a little bit into the anti-Sebelius waters, though, and the objection to her is somewhat more complex and interesting than simple outrage at "snubbing Clinton in favor of another woman." To choose Sebelius, I think, would seem to ratify for some of these women the longtime feminist concern that, in order to be allowed into the male world, women have to be non-threatening -- gentle, motherly, not too brazen or spiky. To the degree people in Washington know much of anything about her, Sebelius has that unthreatening, pleasant, non-spiky reputation. Consider her low unfavorables and that State of the Union response: softly intoned, dull, without any edges. Let's just say it's really hard to imagine anybody calling Sebelius a "bitch" -- whereas the fact that numerous people have called Hillary that was, to some women, what made her political success so groundbreaking. She wasn't just the first woman to win presidential primaries; she was the first brazen, ballsy you-know-what to win them.

Allida Black, a major Hillary supporter who's angry at the idea of putting Sebelius on the ticket, put it to me this way yesterday:

It's unacceptable and condescending ... that the woman [Hillary] who fought for them [other powerful women], the woman who stood up and took all this abuse, the woman who stayed in the race after everyone said it was over, would be discounted. And to put on a safe, acceptable woman from a swing state is an affront to the woman they voted for. [Sebelius] is sweet! She’s nice! She’s effective in Kansas. But Washington is not Kansas. (emphasis mine)

--Eve Fairbanks

Posted: Friday, June 13, 2008 12:44 PM with 26 comment(s)

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cspencef said:

So bitches only need apply?  Pass.

I'm not sure I think my guv is the best candidate for VP but this is an absolutely unacceptable reason.  If these...well, you fill in the world...want to hand the country to John McCain in a fit of pique I frankly question their sanity.  And do these people really want to reopen the discussion about how Hillary managed to turn an inevitable nomination into a loss?  

OK, I'm leaving this post before I say something really unpleasant...

June 13, 2008 3:47 PM

singlespeed said:

Ok...I can understand some Hillaristas being upset that their "chosen one" gets the pass on the VP slot. But then Obama elects to chose a different woman and they act like this is the end of civilization as we know it and OBVIOUSLY the end of modern power-gal politics and feminism.

At this point, I'd be glad to let the Hillary dead-enders sit in their vituperative juices and stew away while the rest of us support the Democratic ticket the best way we can so Obama resides in the White House.

Bitchiness is so 1999.

June 13, 2008 4:33 PM

cypess said:

Obama is also too nice, right?  Do these people think we need a horrid gut-puncher, a Democratic Cheney?   The last thing the party needs is to be held hostage by unreasonable, unthinking, demands like this.

Sebelius has a record of achievement almost three times as long as Hillary.  Since 1986, Sebelius was in the House of Representatives and a chief executive of a State.  Hillary was in government since 2000.  And if we want to count being first lady (of Arkansas and POTUS) as 'experience' then since Sebelius was the daughter of the governor of Ohio (John Gilligan who was in different government offices since 1953), then Sebelius beats Hillary at that too.

Sebelius is the anti-Hillary in temperament, achievement, and feminism.  The reason why the Hillary people reject Sebelius is because Sebelius is BETTER and it's embarrassing to them (it's what should be called "Krugman Syndrome")

June 13, 2008 4:42 PM

stgla said:

Sebelius is pretty strongly pro-choice, which is nothing but bold in a state like Kansas.  That beats carpetbagging to New York to get elected any day.  It's the difference between Nancy Kerrigan and Tonya Harding.  Both talented skaters but I know which one I would put in the big show.

June 13, 2008 5:15 PM

blackton said:

"the woman who stayed in the race after everyone said it was over" um...don't you think that maybe that is a pretty damn good reason why she won't be picked? It is like she didn't even pay attention to what she was saying, why not add: "how dare the woman who questioned Obama's fitness for office, who did everything she could to ruin his chances in November, how dare she not be asked?"

June 13, 2008 5:17 PM

dylanposer said:

I was and continue to be an ardent Obama supporter, and never discounted Hillary as a successful and trailblazing politician--I just preferred another candidate.  I have to side with the Hillaristas on this one--the presedency is a post where the impressions you make upon people come not just from your policies, but mostly from the demeanor you exude in your public appearances.   So while Sandra Day O'Connor rose to the occasion by writing for the majority on PP v. Casey, a president or vice president must employ a verbal tone that is appropriate to their cause.  I don't know if Sebelius does this for feminism.  Though she would never be a good sell to the public for the post, Nancy Pelosi *would* fulfill this requisite.

June 13, 2008 5:21 PM

dylanposer said:

Stgla,

Touche.

June 13, 2008 5:28 PM

fougasseu said:

All of these posts about women. Europeans must think we're Neanderthals. All over europe women are in positions of power. So many posts sound like we're debating giving women the vote. Jason Lewis, a sit-in for Limbaugh, said on his show yesterday that government started to balloon and get out control when women got the vote, that women were responsible for all of the "nanny state" programs, and summed it up by calling women "airheads" because they're currently polling towards Obama. How can people look their daughters in the eye who speak and write this bullshit?

June 13, 2008 6:09 PM

Rhubarbs said:

"Obama is also too nice, right?  Do these people think we need a horrid gut-puncher, a Democratic Cheney?"

Um, in a word: Yes. The root of the earliest and most fervent Hillary support in my observation has in fact been a form of Bush envy. Hillary has spent her time since 2000 building a plausible case that she can be _our_ George W. Bush, the restoration candidate who has what it takes to stick it to the bastards on the other side and do unto them as they done unto us and yeeeaaarrrrrgggghhh!

Hillary's appeal is and always has boiled down to, "Yes, she's as bad as George W. Bush, but dammit she's _our_ George W. Bush." It's an appeal I totally sympathize with -- I'd love to embrace the irresponsibility of the other side and give them back some doses of their own medicine -- but that I'm very proud my party ultimately rejected.

June 13, 2008 6:41 PM

Wandreycer1 said:

cspencef - never fear, the vast majority of human beings who happen to have ovaries (myself included) know that these nitwits don't represent much of anyone.  Yes, whenever I read about these morons, I wonder if a sex change operation would bother my husband.

But then I remember - at this point this is a media fed dancing clown.  Obama does not have a problem with women.  Millions of us voted for him and these few weirdos certainly do not speak for us.  Quite on the contrary.  

What irritates me is the how fascinating the press finds them - all what, 150 of them?  Every day in the increasingly silly New York Times, another dreary, perfunctory meditation on these borderline irrelevant  mad-on-que media hound doggies extraordinairre.  I can't blame, the press eats it up.  

I have yet to read any piece interviewing the rest if us!  You know, the vast majority of sane people out here?  Or at least the majority of women (and it is that) who actually voted for the other candidate? Why Eve?  Because we aren't as entertaining?

If I promise to also threaten and whine and pound my feet in my Manolos, will you interview some of us too?  

June 13, 2008 6:50 PM

AlanSP said:

It's mind-boggling to me that people can, in the same breath, complain about perceived sexism and then take the absurdly sexist position that Sebelius is unacceptable because she's a woman.  A "nice" man would be acceptable to them, but a "nice" woman would not?  The hypocrisy is stunning, and disgraceful.  

June 13, 2008 7:11 PM

orkeny said:

Kansas is a swing state now? What?

June 13, 2008 7:18 PM

teplukhin2you said:

She may or may not be too nice, but she seems light. That speech video on the Post site is simply awful. She'd have trouble winning a seat on the local school board with a performance like that.

June 13, 2008 7:32 PM

gregstolhand said:

Umm Tep she is the governor of Kansas which is a higher elected position that the local school board.

One performance may not be the greatest sample size of her work.

Also how can HRC supporters claim sexism against BHO if he were to select a woman?  Clintonism maybe, badcandidateism maybe. but it is not sexist to choose anyone other than the runner up in the primary no matter the distribution of x an y chromosomes.

June 14, 2008 7:24 AM

lymon1 said:

"Too nice" is a red herring -- if McCain puts Palin on his ticket many of these Hillary-extremists will praise the choice even though she has a similar demeanor.  

June 14, 2008 8:17 AM

teplukhin2you said:

greg- we can do a LOT better. She's a huge step down from Biden or Dodd.

June 14, 2008 12:06 PM

roidubouloi said:

Oh, I see.  Hillary was fighting for opportunity for all women.  Well, maybe not ALL woman, just those who meet certain criteria that happen to be met by only one woman -- Hillary.

Hillary's supporters need not get themselves in to a frenzy over this.  Sebelius isn't going to get the nod.  Then they can get all whacked because the VP pick is a man.  Slap in the face to Hillary and all the women who could not be nominated because Hillary and her coterie wouldn't stand for it.

June 14, 2008 2:21 PM

debbrodie@optonline.net said:

Excuse me for intruding on reality, but Hillary Clinton on the ticket will ensure that Obama becomes out fearless leader. It's all about the electoral college, folks. Something we Dems never seem to factor in until after we vote and lose( only 2 presidents in 40 years or a 20% success rate.) And here we go again never a mention of the electoral rich states that Hillary has  won. Male, female, white, black, young or old it means "jack" unless you discuss the electoral map  potential wins.

June 14, 2008 6:38 PM

roidubouloi said:

Well, deb,

As pointed out here ad nauseum, there is zero correlation between primary victories and general election victories, different candidates and different electorate.  So far, there is nothing to indicate that Hillary would help Obama win the election.  

June 14, 2008 10:55 PM

roidubouloi said:

Also, you repeat that old canard about Democratic losses.  You have to take even multiples of 8 to get an accurate count.   In the last 32 years, there have been 3 Democratic presidential terms and 5 Republican. Not such a dramatic difference, basically due to Carter.  In the last 48 years, 7 Republican, 5 Democratic.  The only variation on each party alternating for eight years was Carter's loss and Bush 1s win.

June 14, 2008 10:59 PM

gregstolhand said:

Tep,

She may be a step down, but please use better evidence than 1 speech to knock her out of contention.

Real analysis please or have Biden and Dood never had a poor speaking moment?

June 15, 2008 8:39 AM

purcellneil said:

The women who would insist on Clinton and reject Sebelius deserve to be deeply disappointed and aggrieved - it seems to be their inescapable fate. Fortunately, they seem to be a loud minority.

I was disappointed that Edwards or Biden did not win the nomination, but I'm over it.  I'm sure most of Hillary's supporters will get over it too - give them some time.

Neil

June 16, 2008 10:21 AM

stgla said:

Dodd was one of the Countrywide Friends of Angelo VIPs who got discounted mortgage lending. I'd hold off on putting his name in the VP ring.

June 16, 2008 10:21 AM

Mickey Weinber said:

When I was growing up in Cincinnati John Gilligan was a hero.  The red head would smile and eviserate his Republican opponents with his biting wit.  After years on city council, he entered Congress in 1964 and the NYT mag saw him as presidential material...so the Reps redistricted and eliminated him.  A one term Ohio governorship and Cincy school board (in his late 70s) followed.

Daughter Sibelius is a pro choice, gun controlling, Catholic winner in KANSAS(!!!) with Ohio roots.

Biden or Sibelius -- different strengths.  A crap shoot.  Take your pick.  But presidential nominees all too frequently surprise us.

June 16, 2008 10:47 AM

Mickey Weinber said:

To "those" women only Hillary is man enough to be president.

June 16, 2008 11:02 AM

teplukhin2you said:

Didn't know that, stgla. Thanks. Remove Dodd from my short list.

June 16, 2008 6:49 PM