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COLUMNISTS
TODAY'S STORIES
12.05.2008
What-Ifs, Part XVII

Ben Smith has an interesting take on Charles Krauthammer's claim that Clinton only learned how to run against Obama "late in the fourth quarter." The winning offensive scheme, writes Krauthammer, was "back to the center -- not ideologically but culturally, not on policy but on attitude. She changed none of her positions on Iraq or Iran or health care or taxes. Instead, she transformed herself into working-class Sally-get-her-gun, off duck hunting with dad."

In response to which Ben writes:

Clinton couldn't have run as this candidate at the beginning of the cycle. John Edwards occupied that space, with biographical authenticity, through January. February was a month dominated by coastal elites -- New York City, Boston, Los Angeles -- and African-Americans. Clinton could plausibly have done even worse if she'd run around talking about abandoning Nafta and protecting gun rights.

Then, in March, Clinton's transformation was driven by the calendar. (Just as Obama's redevotion to clean coal has been. This is normal politics.) The final quarter of the delegates are to be won in states where working-class white voters provided the key to victory. And Obama has always won enough of those -- from Iowa to Indiana -- to put together a very slightly bigger coalition than Clinton, a coalition which hasn't changed much, despite both candidates' best efforts.

I mostly agree with this. Except that, even with Edwards in the race, and even with those demographic complications, I think fighter-Hillary could have been marginally more successful than inevitable, ready-on-day-one Hillary. (Within reason, of course. Carrying on about gun rights would have been a stretch. Downing a few high-profile boilermakers would have been fine.) And, of course, a marginal improvement could have won her the nomination.

For evidence, I'd just refer you back to our friends at First Read (whom I've been leaning on pretty heavily today):

Take Missouri, for example. Had Obama not won a single swing-state primary (not caucus) on Super Tuesday, Clinton would have had a VERY powerful talking point that night, because she would have won every state primary (not caucus) that matters. But Obama's Missouri squeaker (which probably was only possible because of the shared media market of St. Louis and because of McCaskill’s endorsement) made the focus on the delegate fight, rather than states won.

Agreed. And, given the final margin, I think fighter-Hillary might have won there.

--Noam Scheiber

Posted: Monday, May 12, 2008 1:24 PM with 14 comment(s)

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WaltB said:

"Marginally", but only while her true side remained hidden to the public.  What this race has done more than anything is to show the Clinton's real personalities, biases and warts to everyone.  Both will say or do anything to get a vote.  Both really live in bubbles and don't have a clue or truly care for 'the common man' - other than to get that vote!  They also deep down inside believe that no black man should be considered as a serious candidate for President - especially when one of them is running.  The SNL skit was really quite correct.

May 12, 2008 1:50 PM

stgla said:

Doesn't the very idea that we have to imagine Clinton trying on personae like a confused college freshman disqualify her from serious consideration?

May 12, 2008 1:53 PM

dbhuff said:

Problem with the hypothesis is that the election results have been entirely predictable since NH based on demographics. For all the talk, HRC hasn't improved, nor has Obama, their positions wrt to 'white, hard-working 'merican's".  See www.pollster.com/.../poblanos_model.php

There have been marginal shifts in these demographics but mostly in Obama's favor. And finally, the thesis presupposes that Obama wouldn't have responded sooner (if she was indeed effective sooner). Like my Mom used to say, "If wishes were horses, then beggars would ride"

May 12, 2008 2:02 PM

dbhuff said:

May 12, 2008 2:05 PM

AlanSP said:

I pretty much with you until that last bit from first read.

Frankly, that is a ridiculous argument.  The whole problem with Hillary's post-Super Tuesday argument was how insulting it was to the states that she didn't win.  Hillary's "I won the primaries in the states that really matter (caucuses don't count)" was one of the worst pitches her campaign made during the entire campaign.  And it wasn't just because her conception of "states that matter" included places that were Democratic locks like California and New York.

The Super Tuesday states that could have reasonably been called potential swing states at the time were Missouri, New Jersey, Minnesota, Colorado, and New Mexico.  Minnesota and Colorado had caucuses, so "every state primary (not caucus) that matters" amounts to New Jersey, New Mexico, and Missouri, the last two decided by razor thin margins.  A slim Clinton win in Missouri wouldn't have made "a VERY powerful talking point" unless you considering insulting the intelligence of your audience to be powerful.  Even if you believe that primary performance accurately predicts general election performance (it doesn't), the only thing you could take away from that is that Clinton does better in one swing state (Jersey), and approximately the same in two others (New Mexico and New Jersey).  And this is still assuming that you're totally ignoring caucuses.

Fighter Hillary may or may not have been a better strategic tactic, but the "states that matter" crap was awful no matter how you slice it.

May 12, 2008 2:08 PM

virginiacentrist said:

If the Clintons didn't racebait (there's a debate over whether it was clumsy racebaiting or shameless racebaiting), then they'd probably still have 20% of the AA vote (with African American women helping a bit) - especially in majority minority districts where they had the support of the establishment.

May 12, 2008 2:26 PM

michael said:

Krauthammer doesn't want to admit that Hillary The Hawk (until the facts on the ground scared her) tacked as far to the right as anyone on the stage though most of '07. By then, the money was slowing and her moving further to the right (pre-Iowa) may have put Edwards in the 'next-best' slot after Barack.

Look where she stood for a year after the '06 mid-terms with only 200 pledged Supers?  Her positions, her husband and a war-weary  public were more of a threat than Barack. She barely cracked a 50% ceiling.

I think Iowa was solidly anti Iraq, Edwards owned the 'two Americas' and wow...Hillary came in 3rd. Her only hope for the next month was EXPERIENCE and as with the gas-tax joke, Obama was able to trump 'more years' with 'more wisdom'.

Hillary lacked the positives to win in any personality battle. Her only hope was to pick the correct side of issues and she did not. Not likable may be OK if one is correct. But being wrong only gave more voters another reason to like her less.

May 12, 2008 2:29 PM

virginiacentrist said:

Michael-

Very true. I think most people are trying to avoid piling on here, but Hillary's biggest problem is that she's just not likable. You can't strategize for that.

May 12, 2008 2:47 PM

kbecker said:

You're assuming Hillary would have only gotten votes for running as a populist in Missouri without losing any votes. She could have easily lost some other element who dislike the NRA act and still lose the primary.

May 12, 2008 3:20 PM

virginiacentrist said:

kbecker:

True. And the other problem is that Super Tuesday was a national campaign. In order to run as a culturally conservative populist in Missouri, she'd also have to run as one in the rests of the Super Tuesday states - perhaps jeopardizing California and certainly hurting her delegate hauls in some of the upscale districts in NJ/NY/MA.

May 12, 2008 3:43 PM

liberal reformer said:

Yes v.c., Hillary is not likable (or very widely liked) but her increasingly negative turn resuscitated her campaign. She began racking up victories, even as she pushed her negative numbers higher on the approval front. This is a tricky thing to tease out. We are dealing in counterfactuals here; there can be no rerunning of the primary season under alternate assumptions. Edwards had pretty much carved out the populist niche for himself. He didn't do very well but he was the populist candidate. It would probably have been perilous for Hillary to try to horn in on Edwards' turf early on in the game.

May 12, 2008 3:50 PM

michael said:

When I wrote "not likable" I was referring to the broader perception going into the race & the high negatives which were probably more complicated than her personality could overcome. But the position the Clintons chose in the first years of the war ended up appearing more contrived when she met with her opponents.  

Yes, the brilliant ground strategy was necessary because Barack was unknown and faced bias. But one can't market a product that people don't want. Romney's dollars and Rudy's star quality didn't help on the other side because people weren't buying their plan.

It's almost too easy to point to the ways Obama could have failed because an unknown black with many contrary ideas would be a bad bet.  So I see a touch of envy in Krauthammer because what would confound a conservative more than a person who defied the conventions of their own party?  I doubt any particularly Liberal ideas make Barack more offensive than most of Hillay's (to a guy like Krauthammer).  Has anyone considered that Obama's refusal to bow to traditions and incite change needs to be proved by the right as something that is flawed at the core?

The right didn't want Hillary to succeed but they don't want to admit Obama won because he tapped a resource in the US that is out of their reach. When the right hears "Yes we can"? Well, to them it means "No you won't" Or, we know where we're going and we know how to get there. (We leading, so follow or get out of the way)

May 12, 2008 5:01 PM

liberal reformer said:

Michael: I am a bitter end opponent of the right but I am driven crazy by "Yes we can". Yes we can what? Endlessly spew out rheotric?

May 13, 2008 8:44 AM

sleepyavl said:

"Yes we can what?"

That's exactly the point. You'll never hear the Anointed One say exactly what he wants. Keep it vague, first rule of a demagogue.

May 13, 2008 6:11 PM