woah that sounds eerily similar to my advice a few days ago in that same thread (yes, TNR commenters can pat themselves on the back too, just like TNR correspondents)

blogs.tnr.com/.../gas-tax-politics-cont-d.aspx

Good as far as it goes, but Obama needs to go further. He needs to drive home the point that the McCain Clinton proposal will not even achieve the meager benefits they claim for it. Cite Krugman, NYT, WP, News Hour, etc. The most the average motorist might see is a dollar or two -- not the $30 Obama has been mentioning.

As for Clinton, she now feigns surprise at all the criticism -- don't all these elitists understand how much a few cents per gallon will mean to real people? Either she is ignorant of elementary price theory, or she calculates that she can get votes by misleading voters about the consequences of public policy choices. Which is a worse trait to have in a president? Hard to say.

I got a campaign e-mail yesterday about the ad they've put together based on the gas tax nonsense. Clicked through to the Web site and saw "Read more about the McCain-Clinton gas tax proposal" next to the video. (And yes, I thought back to VAcentrist's post -- are you some sort of conjurer or future-seer witch?!)

So good for them.

Emphasize McCain's idiotic policy approaches and general cluelessness, and emphasize HRC's desperate latch-onto-anything approach to kitchen sink-ing the nomination, and do those in a way that straps McCain on HRC's back.

The way HRC grabbed at the gas tax was rather breath-taking, and it came at a time when I frankly thought she was starting to hum on all cylinders. She's supposed to be the thoughtful policy wonk who knows her stuff and can get things done, and here she was cravenly adopting a cynical political stance that, on the merits, is crap. She was so desperate and eager to hammer Obama on anything - anything at all - that this really blew up in her face. Her campaign must have been so delighted - Here's something NEW we can throw at him! - that they didn't spend five minutes thinking, "Hey, is this really something we want to get behind?" Or, of course, they did consider that and decided it was a good idea - either way, not good.

this is gonna be a big winner for him. he should press it HARD.

Of course, titanio, it's the latter: the one way in which Hillary is consistent is in her ability to be disingenuous. She doesn't care what she says as long as it can get her votes in what ever primary she's currently in. Who cares about the long term consequences of those lies? She's not thinking beyond today. She has no sense of the long term damage she's doing to both the party and herself. But her lies keep piling up, and the Republicans are keeping a running tally. Of course, on this particular one, she thinks she's safe up against McCain, but they'll use it to show this is just the latest in the string of betrayals to her own party in the interests of herself.

The only problem is that Clinton may run ads that say, "Barack Obama is lying. He supported a gas tax holiday in Illinois".

She'll have a point - though the reality is that Obama has said multiple times since 2000 that he learned that this was a dumb idea. Also - the Illinois gas tax was a percentage (which means it increases exponentially when the price of gas goes up), whereas the federal tax is just 18 cents.

I hope he also hammers Hillary on the fact that her proposal isn't just a copy of McCain's (change she can xerox), it's a defective copy. Economists say that McCain's proposal won't work. But even in theory, Hillary's proposal _cannot_ work. Not even in the wildest realm of fantasy is it conceivable that shifting X dollars in taxes from the retail price of a product to the wholesale production of the same product could result in a reduction in the price of that product. This is a level of plain old stupidity that exceeds even the Bush administration's high standards of idiocy.

Glad to see it tied to Bush's "Mission Accomplished" but go one step further.  Tie the anchor of the war and their bad decision making as one of the big reasons for fuel price run-ups and our massive deficit spending.  Show that HilCain have no their inability to think through the consequences of their decision.  Let the public know that this 'gas tax' jazz will only increase the deficit more and leave our roads in a shambles.

The real irony of all of this is that the idea has zero support on Capitol Hill. It'll never happen.

Nevertheless, I'm sure several thousand of Hillary's core uneducated elderly supporters will be angrily demanding more change from gas station attendants over the next few months. I expect at least a dozen incidents where false teeth are thrown as cranky old people yell "You terrorist!" at Indian-American clerks.

virginacentrist: Yes, you make a good point about Obama being open to that attack. One minor defense is there is a difference in price elasticity of supply locally vs. nationally. If one state adjusts its tax, more gasoline can flow to that state from nearby markets. (This point was made by Gwenn Ifill's guest on the News Hour, tho I forget his name and I don't know how to spell Ifill.)

Hey VC --

another image that should flash thru the ads is some of the stuff the gas tax is supposed to pay for:  maybe a collapsed bridge in Minneapolis?

That way you get the multi-pronged point brutally made:  it won't work and will put more money in the pockets of the oil companies; more money for OPEC nations who hate us (which pivots nicely to Iraq and the war and why do McCain and Clinton hate the troops?); and then shows Joe and Jane Sixpack the actual cost to them: you don't get your $30  this summer and you might drive off a collapsing bridge.

brutal? yes; cynical? maybe effective? you be the judge...

elitist-ly yours,

Titanio:

Good points on the state vs federal. Sadly, that's just more nuance that Obama can't deliver in 30-60 seconds.

The problem is that this is a rubbish plan by Hillary (she knows that it's rubbish. She probably laughs privately with her advisors about how it's just a politically popular gimmick). Since her support for the plan is a completely disingenuous political stunt (typical of her campaign), we can't put it past her to just air an add that says "Barack Obama is viciously attacking Hillary Clinton for supporting a gas tax holiday. But he supported a holiday in Illinois in 2000. Is this the new politics that he's talking about?"

I noticed nobody is making the point that the gas tax debate is trivial compared to the real debate we should be having about oil prices and energy conservation.  But we'd rather win elections than avoid leaving the next generation with a second-rate economic power for a nation. Hey, by that time VC will be as old as the elderly voters she so clearly dispises.  

The Clinton and McCain campaign have defended their plant to suspend the federal gasoline tax in strikingly

This is the tip of the iceberg.  Hillary has recently said she would go to war to defend Arab countries.  She told a debate moderator that Obama CAN beat McCain ("Yes, yes, YES" was her orgasmic response to the debate question) but superdelegates across the country have said that she says exactly the opposite thing to them privately.  She finds her voice every week and its a different voice. She is the fakest champion of the working poor I have ever seen and everybody under 70 can see through her bullshit.

Why is Hillary still being considered a serious candidate for the nomination?

Still should have added a mention about which candidates take money from oil companies...but that's a good attack he should run it as an ad.

"I noticed nobody is making the point that the gas tax debate is trivial compared to the real debate we should be having about oil prices and energy conservation."

Um, that's the whole point of why McCain and his campaign's Dem primary surrogate, Clinton, are getting slapped around on their gas tax proposal - because it IS trivial.

If you check out the ad Obama put out ("short-term quick fix so we can say we did something about it," etc., it's exactly in line with what you're saying there - the gas tax debate is trivial and we should be looking at the bigger picture.

So it looks like you and Obama are in complete agreement, lymon.

"I noticed nobody is making the point that the gas tax debate is trivial compared to the real debate we should be having about oil prices and energy conservation."

Well, Obama is making that exact point.  If I recall correctly, the recent Obama ad on the gas tax, that's one of the main thrusts against the gas tax holiday (a "holiday from history, if you will").  It's a distraction that deflects from the real energy problems this country has.

Lymon:

Personally, I'm hoping that this nomination battle goes to the convention. By then, most of Hillary's hard-core supporters will have died of old age (God rest their souls, poor wretches). They won't get to live long enough to see a female presidential candidate make a fool of herself on the convention floor.

Jon and Noam are betting Obama will win current the gas-tax debate. But I wonder if they're too smart

The real question is "how much of the popular vote is stupid enough to eat up Clinton's pandering before they realize the kind of joke being played on them?"

Since y'all keep mentioning the ad:

www.youtube.com/watch

As for ceding the fight, Obama said it best: she can run for as long as she wants. Personally, I don't think anyone should drop out until either its clear they are not in the top 2 candidates in anybody's book, or the #2 candidate is mathematically eliminated in the primaries.

The issue here is giving Hillary a full chance, without moving the goal posts and while being decent about it; something I will need to see from Hillary if she wants my vote. IMNSHO Barack has gone to great lengths to respect the historical candidacy she represents; if only she could have done the same... :(

Not only does it sound good, let's not overlook the fact that it's also true.

(actually, in the end, it's only a good argument because it's true.  At the end of the day, people are just going to know that Clinton and McCain want to lower the price of their gas, and Obama doesn't.  It's not a winner for him politically, even if it lets him get off the occasional soundbite.)

I had the same thought.

neilzjournal.blogspot.com/.../you-scratch-my-back.html

Neil

The truth is, the country would be much better off raising the gas tax significantly and returning it as a lump sum tax credit of rebate to everyone whose income is below the FICA tax cut off.  Even if it were returned only to car owners, it would still get them even economically and give them an incentive to conserve.  But, of course, it is not possible to speak the truth about policy in the American bequeathed to us by the Great Fabulist, Ronald Reagan, and taken to new depths by his evil spawn, George W. Bush.