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COLUMNISTS
TODAY'S STORIES
28.04.2008
Wrightmare

NYT:

Our colleague Jeff Zeleny tells us that associates of Mr. Obama said privately that his campaign was furious at Mr. Wright’s decision to step forward so publicly, but that they were unable to do anything to control this. They added, however, that the pastor’s actions prove that he and Mr. Obama are not that close, otherwise why would Mr. Wright do this now?

That's easy--because Wright has become embittered at Obama since the initial controversy last month, even if Obama never actually threw him under the bus. (Ambinder says the men have spoken once since then and that "the conversation was not especially pleasant.") Wright also now possesses a new level of fury at a media/cultural establishment he feels has demonized him, and that, too, might override any qualms he had about damaging Obama.

Substantively, there's no reason to think Obama shares Wright's views on anything, even if Chris Matthews is now saying that Wright is effectively coming across as an Obama "surrogate." But his performance in the past couple of days obviously nullifies the old argument that Fox News had taken a couple of Wright's unfortunate outbursts out of context and made the man into a cartoon.

The best hope for Obama here may be that Wright becomes so nutty--apparently his security today was provided by the Nation of Islam--that he allows Obama to perform the full Soujah he didn't execute in his race speech last month and flatly denounce him. He may lose the intellectual high ground that impressed us "elites" but politically it may be the necessary thing to do.

Update: Obama insists Wright's latest salvos "don’t represent my view and they don’t represent what this campaign is about."

More: On "Hardball" just now David Axelrod complained about the level of media attention Wright is getting--maybe he's hoping to replicate the post-ABC debate dynamic of anti-media outrage that softened a bad story somewhat (though not enough to salvage PA).

--Michael Crowley

Posted: Monday, April 28, 2008 5:26 PM with 59 comment(s)

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ChanRobt said:

Are you guys sure that the Clintons didn't get to Wright?  Because he sure as hell looked like he was on their payroll in front of the Press Club.

And, I loved the irony of his complaining that the media had used sound bites against him while he proceeded to provide them with long minutes with "context" layered on top of context.

Now, let's see.  The Rev Wright just received an immense McMansion along with a $10 million line of credit.  

Is there some way to find out if an anonymous $15 million plus donation was recently made to the Rev's church?  'Cause some intrepid reporter may want to track down the source.

April 28, 2008 5:45 PM

ChanRobt said:

P.S., I guess Obama should do a Soulja moment now.  But, it's sure going to seem a bit anti-climactic and transparent at this juncture, don't you think?

April 28, 2008 5:46 PM

Rhubarbs said:

At the National Press Club, Wright joked about wanting to be Obama's VP nominee. Urgh.

April 28, 2008 5:50 PM

wyllie said:

On the bright side, it looks like Obama has picked up a few super delegates over the last few days.  He's now only 20 behind Clinton (according to Real Clear Politics).  He was behind by 34 at the beginning of the month.  I also see that he only lost by 10 delegates in PA  (83 to 73) with a couple of delegates still not counted...

April 28, 2008 6:17 PM

ralphnelle said:

OK, now I agree it's time to get rid of this guy. What an egomaniac asshole. And now part of me wonders, along with others here, why he didn't cut him loose to begin with. This is the last thing he needs this week.

April 28, 2008 6:43 PM

chmclean said:

I had an interesting conversation with my parents today, both devoted Repubs who are not naturally inclined to give Obama a break on the Wright issue. After hearing Wright speak last night both came away with a positive impression of him, which they certainly didn't have before. In fact my step-dad observed that if people were shown video of his comments without knowing who he was, they'd never imagine that it was the same guy they've been hearing rant and rave on Fox News. Both concluded that maybe the "God Damn America" clips were rare, not heard in the pews of Trinity UCC, and taken out of context. Pretty generous and fair-minded observations, I thought, for folks who are normally pretty closed-minded about their politics.

I know this is anecdotal, but really, both had been completely turned off of Obama by the stuff they had heard about Wright and now have a much more favorable opinion of him and of Obama, by association. Not that they're gonna vote for him in November, but . . .

Maybe my parents' reaction is not uncommon, and we're worrying way too much about this. I do agree though that Mr. Wright needs to sit down and shut up.

April 28, 2008 6:44 PM

dbhuff said:

Yeah, I thought on Moyers, he didn't look fruity in general and a calm demeanor would be good. Now he looks like a nut case, and it is no good for Obama. Unless we all just get bored...

April 28, 2008 6:56 PM

The Plank said:

I hate to go 'I told you so' about Jeremiah Wright, but I think I did . A casual stop by Trinity

April 28, 2008 7:22 PM

teplukhin2you said:

Time for the Obama team to figure out how to stage a righteously angry, "I paid for this microphone, Mr Breen!" moment for their guy. Stiff the press, souljah Wright and do a Nixon-to-China on education, and Obama will be out of his slump.

See? I _don't_ wish him ill, in fact want him to succeed.

April 28, 2008 7:53 PM

chmclean said:

Also, my step-dad allowed that after hearing Wright speak, he understood better why Obama stuck with Trinity through the years. I haven't heard the NAACP speech, which is what my parents heard, but apparently the man is an incredible speaker. Both my folks were very impressed with his oratorical gifts, and both are hard-core Republicans.

April 28, 2008 7:54 PM

dlrocdoc said:

Somehow, Obama's defense that he doesn't share Wright's views seems to be made of particularly weak reeds.  

The big question rising out of this Wright/NPC mess is how Obama could have such egregiously poor judgment that he would chose to raise his children in a Church where Wright is the leader?  What kind of responsible father would stand passively by and expose his daughters to this crap?  

April 28, 2008 8:01 PM

bhunziker said:

I think we may be on the precipice of an implosion.  Mike Easely just endorsed Clinton and the NCGOP's Wright ad is going to be effective given this new context. I expect North Carolina to be under 10 points, perhaps closer to 5.  If that happens and Clinton wins Indiana decisively, as the Survey USA poll suggests she will, it will be over, and she will have proven herself to be - much to my chagrin, I might add - the stronger candidate.

April 28, 2008 8:31 PM

ChanRobt said:

Let me get this straight, chmclean, your Republican parents watched the Wright's National Press Club outing and came away asking what the problem was?

Maybe they saw the Moyers interview, the snippets of which that I saw made Wright appear to be rabies-free.

But the Press Club thing-- gad, he just dug every hold several feet deeper.  

If your parents are Republicans mclean, they must be the see-no-evil kind.

April 28, 2008 8:58 PM

dcshungu said:

NYT:

"They added, however, that the pastor’s actions prove that he and Mr. Obama are not that close, otherwise why would Mr. Wright do this now?"

Recycling and amending from the other thread since it seems so appropriate:

Are you kidding?  Rev. Dr. Jeremiah would be operating practically out of the White House if Obama is elected POTUS, and if you think that you have seen the worst of it, then fasten your seat belts! You ain't seen nothing yet! The fact that he is out there, oblivious  to how shitless this  scares the superdels from backing Obama, should tell you that this man would have to be forced into a straight jacket and hauled out of the WH if Obama is the POTUS!

Obama is his "Manchurian Candidate" and he, Jeremiah, won't be denied!!! Obama cannot control Jeremiah any more than the "Candidate" could control his mommy and her acolytes. In the remake of the movie, the "Candidate" wakes up and takes a bullet that rids the world of his manipulating mommy... I hope it won't have to come to that for Obama to rid the world of this...man.

April 28, 2008 9:14 PM

gurdjieff66 said:

The only thing that would make Obama's hard-core black and white liberal supporters happier than him beating McCain would be LOSING to McCain and being able to blame the defeat on the spectre of 'white racism'  It would reinforce their "whites are the cancer of humanity" axiom, a key tenet of the "liberal" faith at Daily Kos, The Nation, and humanities departments across the country.  

April 28, 2008 9:54 PM

naomi88 said:

"I expect North Carolina to be under 10 points, perhaps closer to 5.  If that happens and Clinton wins Indiana decisively, as the Survey USA poll suggests she will, it will be over, and she will have proven herself to be - much to my chagrin, I might add - the stronger candidate."

Yeah, because she will have won 16 states to his 30, and be only 120 pledged delegates and several hundred thousand votes behind him.  Good reasoning.  

April 28, 2008 10:07 PM

naomi88 said:

"Rev. Dr. Jeremiah would be operating practically out of the White House if Obama is elected POTUS,"

I think if Rev. Wright even tries to get NEAR  the White House next year, President Obama will give the order to open fire.

April 28, 2008 10:15 PM

nturner said:

If Obama pulls a full-Souljah on Wright now (as many of you are suggesting), then I fully expect that the egomaniac Wright will lash out at Obama in shocking ways.  He's already proven that it's all about him; he certainly seems not to care what damage he's doing to Obama.  No telling what he could do or say if Obama disowns him now!  Think about it:  What if Wright announced that he and Obama had had many conversations in which Obama expressed similar sentiments?  What if he had incriminating Obama knowledge?  What if he said something that proved Obama had been dishonest about their relationship?  

I'm not trying to piss off the Obama supporters on this blog, but this Wright business should be scary.  Now that Obama has basically said he's a member of the family, he is stuck with the guy.  If he pisses off the crazy uncle then the crazy uncle can start running his mouth about "confessional" moments in Barack's past.  Not good.

April 28, 2008 10:40 PM

chmclean said:

Chan -

No, not the press club thing, the semi-sermon at the NAACP meeting last night. Apparently (I haven't had time to watch it yet myself) he comported himself well. As for the National Press Club address and Q&A session today, my husband and I talked about it this evening (again I have only secondhand info.) and he was VERY offended by what he heard. So maybe I jumped the gun to think Wright might not be the liability others think he is.

And, no, based on what my husband said and what I'm reading here and elsewhere, my Republican parents would NOT be impressed with Wright at the NPC thing today. They are definitely not the "see-no-evil" brand of Republican.

April 28, 2008 11:08 PM

ChanRobt said:

Yeah, chmclean, that makes much more sense.

April 28, 2008 11:13 PM

jobeek2 said:

I havent seen either the Moyers interview or the Press Club appearance, but chmclean may be on to something.

I post on this forum (just a general forum, with Politics as one of many sections), and came across two posts today along the same lines.

One wrote: "I did [see the Moyers interview]. And I sent the link to my mom, who loves him now. I know that the talking heads are saying that Rev. Wright being in the spotlight is not what the Obama campaign wants ("they want him to just go away") but I think it's good. For one thing, the more he is out there where everyone can see, the more people get the sense that he's not some kind of crazy radical cult leader. [..]"

Now that poster is a liberal, if a generally pragmatic one, but this one isnt; she's a fairly non-political centrist type:

"I'd have to agree with you ... Unfortunately, I only saw excerpts but from what I did see, [Wright] appeared as a rational, reasoned, thinking human being, and I liked how he presented himself and his views. It leads me to conclude that the original comments were taken out of context and blown up, obviously deliberately. A rather transparent smear campaign."

So I dunno - the Moyers interview, in any case, might have done a lot more good than bad.

April 28, 2008 11:21 PM

ralphnelle said:

Wright has to go. He has to. If Obama cannot do to him as Soprano did to Pussy, he just isn't cut out for this business. What's holding him back? Among other things, the man questioned his integrity ("he's just saying what a politician must say"). You can't just brush that off as "his prerogative." That's an insult, and it warrants a forceful response. So does the tactless riffing re America's chickens coming home to roost. Kneecap him and move on.

April 29, 2008 12:23 AM

Annabella2 said:

I am so of two minds on this in terms of long term effect.

First he is an ego maniac... a real "wounded narcissist" on many levels who is now lashing out: at media, at Whitey and yes at Obama, perhaps for succeeding in getting loved by Whitey where he did not... It is patently clear that he does not want Obama to get the nomination or be elected President.  It would somehow take away from him his raison d'etre.  Where would he and all his hate be if a black man, or half black man, since everyone forgets he is half White, could be elected president.

How about his explanation on why he wasn't against Farrakhan... did the rest of you get it?  "... "Louis Farrakhan is not my enemy. He did not put me in chains, he did not put me in slavery, and he didn't make me this color."...Didn't know that Wright was ever in chains or in slavery... but the zinnger... "make me this color."  Ouch!

So on the one hand there is this wacko...

BUT he is also funny and is it just possible that if funny, less threatening and just wacko?  The nAACP speech had good moments, a good theme, and he certainly can explain things through song... but the Press Club speech... well like so often, he was getting warmed up and then went off the rails.

And the slyness of immunizing himself both from any dissociation Obama did of the past and the future, by claiming he was just a politician, saying anything he has to say to get votes.

It is clear this is a man who for whatever reasons... wounded narcissism" is best, wants Obama to lose.

BUT the nuttier he seems the more questionable Obama's judgment for staying with him.

Sad...Obama fired so many people up with the hope of a different kind of politics... to go back to the cynicism and the corruption of the Clintons or the disastrous Republican ways would be so discouraging for so many.

Unless one is thinking strategically.  It will be awfully hard to dig ourselves out of the hole that Bush and Co,  have created... let the Republicans try.  As for Clinton... many of see no difference other than the label.

So is the Democratic Party about to self destruct by giving the nomination to Clinton after all as the air goes out of the Obama campaign?  Or will people somehow see the aspects of the Wright speechs that make sense and overlook the nutter aspects?  Or will they understand that Wright wants Obama to lose and thus not hold Wright against him...

All too curious.

April 29, 2008 12:39 AM

teplukhin2you said:

Man... and to think of all the abuse one got/gets for having suggested that it was Obama who blundered, hugely, weeks ago by not swiftly disassociating himself from Wright, simply and cleanly and severely, at the very beginning of this tempest in a thimble that is now a campaign-threatening crisis.

Steep learning curve, Barack. Get a microphone and a Mr Breen moment, find a souljah, get angry, start a fistfight with someone who deserves to have a political rib or two broken. Make or break time now.

April 29, 2008 1:15 AM

teplukhin2you said:

"Sad...Obama fired so many people up with the hope of a different kind of politics"

Politics is a contest for power. People engaged in that struggle aka politicians SEEK POWER first and foremost. Without power, they have nothing. There are many paths to power but all of them require shrewdly assembling friends of many types and dispatching enemies of many types, including friends who used to be enemies and vice-versa.

Wright was useful to Obama's quest for office-- power--  20 years ago. His usefulness ended precisely one year ago, when Obama stepped up to a national stage in which Black Power theology, however quaint or engaging it may appear in Wright's neighborhood, is nothing but an albatross that spells death for any presidential candidate.

This was obvious then. Should have been obvious to Obama, and to anyone not drunk on his rhetoric and post-partisan mush. He has no one to blame but himself, and he needs to step up and, as ralphnelle says in a bit of surprising candor, kneecap this man who is trying to strangle Obama's candidacy.

April 29, 2008 1:23 AM

ralphnelle said:

Tep, I think I was among those who gave you grief for your view on this stuff back in March. My mistake. It wasn't clear to me then. It is now.

I think it'd be gutsy but wise for Obama to criticize the culture of victim-hood that paralyzes some sections of the African-American community. It's something he has already done (e.g., his Alabama speech), it's something a true leader in the AA community *should* say, and it would show a willingness to utter some stinging truths to his base, which would help him politically.

Identify Wright with this attitude, and then condemn them both as counterproductive poison.

April 29, 2008 2:07 AM

ironyroad said:

tep, Obama couldn't do the simple clean cutting-loose thing a few weeks ago.  In fact, had he done so, he would have looked like he was running scared of an equally scared Whitey and that might have driven a large number of black voters either to stay home or drift back to Hillary.  And he would have lost a chance to put the race thing on the table in a more constructively different way -- a way that works for him -- than anyone has done so far in American politics.

But a question:

I'm not the first one to say this, but isn't there something weird about this last couple of days?  Who is scripting the whole thing with Wright and the Press Club and the lord knows where?  What is it saying?  That Wright is such a dangerous and subversive radical that he can be invited into the hallowed precincts of the DC media establishment to vent his anger?  That Obama agrees with Wright?  Bet they never invited Bill Ayers!  WTF is Wright doing there, and what's his role?

His role is to cripple Obama, of course, but Wright seems to have such a level of morbid narcissism that he doesn't realize it's not freaking well about him!  In fact, Wright doesn't realize it, but he's become -- for the media, for HRC, for the Republicans at longer distance -- a classic figure from vaudeville:  the tap-dancing Negro clown whose comic antics reveal his inner trauma but whose own powerlessness gets the laugh.

Obama is something else, far beyond the old American vaudeville script, and Wright clearly resents that deeply.  And Obama understands Wright's bitterness, I'm sure.

April 29, 2008 2:21 AM

ChanRobt said:

ralphnelle, irony, you are attempting to give nuanced advice.  But, I'm not sure you're acknowledging how much between a rock and a hard place is Sen Obama.

Yes, it seems like he ought to decisively cut the umbilical cord' tween him and his almost family mentor, Rev Wright.

But, irony, though you say he could not have done same to Wright back in Philly, to the media and the public, it will seem now to be a late and desperate act.

But, even if he does it successfully and well, North Carolina is just two weeks off.  And there, his act may not be received well at all amongst the black constituency that is suppsoed to give him 90% of their vote.

They may look at dispatching Wright as proof that, just as they expected a coupla months ago, Obama is not really black.  He's this Hawaiian prep school, Ivy League, son of Kansas white woman dude.  And for 20 years, he's been the white Manchurian Candidate, a white sleeper on the South Side.

So, then, Obama loses Indiana for sure because of Wright.  And then he loses NC for committing patricide against Wright.

He's screwed both ways.

Obama may now, instead of making another Gettysburg Address, have to make a Checkers Speech.  Crude, obvious, stupid.  And effective.

And then, dear irony, we will have come full diabolical circle.

April 29, 2008 2:59 AM

teplukhin2you said:

"Running scared"? Huh?

Look, Wright has made my point for me: he's milking this thing for all it's worth, because he wants _power_. Power gives him fame and fortune. Wright is making this into a political contest, whether we like it or not.

This is like Hoffa vs Bobby Kennedy. The man is now quite literally taunting Obama, daring him to engage in a power struggle, and Obama cannot leave the arena. He has to fight this man, and defeat him.

I know what Bobby Kennedy would do. It's not at all what Obama has done or is doing.

And Bobby would cut off his arm before he dissed any of his female relatives for the sake of his friendship with a two-bit hustling religious huckster.

April 29, 2008 3:05 AM

teplukhin2you said:

Chan, try this. Obama refused to get angry because, we're told, it was/is political suicide to be seen by whites as an Angry Black Man. (Some would say that's true of Angry White Men too.Whatever).

And now we're told that he can't get angry because it's political suicide if NC afr-amer voters see him as angry at a righteously angry brother sticking it to the Man.

How about he says something like this:

I'm a normal AMERICAN who's angry at all the ways MY COUNTRY is being cheapened, coarsened, above all weakened by all the pygmies and hucksters who batten on our pointless, asinine culture wars.

We are ONE COUNTRY. That country is defined not by the least of us but by the best of us: people like [insert un-Wrightian chosen heroes here...].

I do not want the presidency so dearly, or value my country so cheaply, that I would gain the presidency by the votes of any Americans who believe that this country or any faction of it is the enemy. Our enemies right now are many, and daunting; [health insurance mess economic mess Iraq mess NATO mess dollar in dustbin sinking working class].

Those enemies threaten ALL of us. We will defeat them together or we will watch together as our country is dragged down, relentlessly, by them. I aim to defeat these, the real demons around us, and I invite anyone of good faith to join me in this quest in which race-baiters and haters of all types are not welcome...

April 29, 2008 3:22 AM

naomi88 said:

You folks need to get a grip.  Obama is still the prohibitive favorite to be our next President.  Hillary is all but finished, she can't win the pledged delegates, and the supers won't overturn that result, since it's impossible to equitably count the popular vote, which she will lose in any case.  As for McCain, all he is saddled with is a major recession, an internecine war that he seems content to keep U.S. troops involved with forever, and a two term incumbent nitwit that he can't meaningfully disavow without fracturing his base.

Talk about problems!  Obama has comparatively few.  The Wright story was already largely played out in March.  Give it another couple of days this time, and the media will move on again.

Long term, Bittergate is a bigger problem than Wright for Obama, but both are clearly manageable, given the sad state of affairs of Obama's opponents.  

April 29, 2008 3:24 AM

WaltB said:

Why, why, why is everyone so obsessed with Rev. Wright and every syllable that comes out of his mouth?  It's because he's a black man.

Why, why, why isn't there ANY media exposure of John McCain's two spiritual advisers?  Not a peep anywhere save on 23/6, and the quotes from them make Rev. Wright look like he's the second coming.  

And why isn't anyone digging through Jessie Jackson's tirades (close Clinton spiritual adviser from the past) or any of the others?

Without doubt, I'm convinced this situation has exposed the nasty underside of our collective race issue.  Too many media folks are 'uncomfortable' with this black thing.  They need some way of diverting the potential of an African-American becoming our leader, especially when they are confronted with the side they fear (but won't acknowledge that they fear!).  Got to keep 'them' in their place, after all.  Can't have 'them' joining the top country club. It's OK for 'them' to play sports, to entertain, to dance around on the periphery of power - just don't bring that black stuff in the front door!

And especially for you African-American readers (if there are any), I'm a 64 year old white male who thinks we're way overdue getting over this crap.

April 29, 2008 7:06 AM

jobeek2 said:

I agree about everyone needing to get a grip. Seriously. I havent seen anything like the kind of massive media blowback, nor any kind of impact in the polls, nor any kind of mass popular outrage, to warrant the kind of hysteria that seems to have taken over here. A Press Club appearance by Wright is not going to be the end of the Obama campaign... I'd say y'all need to get out of the bubble for a bit.

April 29, 2008 7:14 AM

virginiacentrist said:

Agreed with nturner. The only thing stopping Obama from throwing Wright under the bus is the threat that Wright will go on a national anti-Obama media tour. The guy is poison.

April 29, 2008 8:02 AM

PeteBeck said:

One problem Obama faces in further distancing himself from Wright is that Wright (a) is a very smart operator even though he may act a bit nutty in public in the eyes of a certain white audience, (b) he has a tangible record of success in building a large, successful institution which does good things for the community and serves him as a solid base of support, (c) he probably is angry at Obama and would like to bring him down and/or he is simply somone who has figured out how to milk his moment of national attention for personal fame and glory and (d) he presents himself as a spokesman for the entire black church tradition and black aspirations.

There is not much that Obama can do, at least in public, about (a), (b) and (c) -- except to let Wright know in private and hint in public that if this stuff continues he, Obama, will openly and cleanly break Wright's testicles in a variety of ways.  Come what may, Obama will still be a US Senator and powerful leader of the party and the black community.  The ex Marine and successful religion entrepreneur probably won't back off, but he will clearly become  seen as Obama's enemy, not ally.

As for (d), Obama needs quickly to have church leaders of all denominations and races -- particularly African American -- gather around him to denounce Wright and point out that Wright is not mainstream, but rather that the extreme and nutty aspects of his views are an aberration and that the way to deal with the problems that Wright points out and evidences is by building a better world together, and not by shouting and shooting at one another with tired, incorrect slogans, and mutual hatred.  

April 29, 2008 8:39 AM

jerb said:

Let me start by saying I am an athiest and I will never understand how any preacher is ever consulted for their opinions about anything because, as far as I am concerned, theology has no subject matter.  What methodology could a pious (rather than critical scholar) theologian possibly follow that minimizes the role of self-delusion and wishful thinking.  This Wright is a loon.

However, I can't fathom how this is such huge news and the scores of right-wing preachers who think gays are going to hell (and deserve it), think atheists and secularists are not real Americans, and harbor all manner of hateful and un-American semtiments a free pass.  I mean, when you claim 9/11 or Hurricane Katrina is God's punishment on America for the sins of secularism of homosexuality, and that America deserved it, is that not exactly the same as saying that certain chickens came home to roost or that God Damns America?  It seems to me that the only difference is that people believe God DOES care about those things, so it is ok to point them out.  I think the moment we need is not some discussion on race, but a discussion on religion and how looney it is to exempt religious beliefs from scrutiny.   Note that people completely ignore Hagee, RObertson and company when they rail on gays, secularists, atheists, scientists and others, but will suddenly take notice if they slam catholics or jews.  When did we get to the point that we have an exaggerate respect for any belief that calls itself religious but hate directed at other law-abiding groups is considered just fine.  Have you never heard a preacher condemn America for abortion?  I guess these folks thing that slavery and racism are lesser sins than abortion and homosexuality.  I love how folks tolerated racism for 300 years and a scant 40 years after the last legal hurdle to blacks was cleared (nevermind the continued aftereffects of the previous 300 years) whites suddenly enforce a strict colorblindness on blacks and go crazy if a black person is slightly angry.  Admittedly, I find Wright's reductive silliness and victim-mongering pathetic (since the whole race problem in this country stems from the eceonomic and cultural after-effects of a system that has been dismantled and no longer requires actual racists to be felt), but we dare not say anything about the victim-mongering and whining we get from religious folks and other members of the rabble who think creationism and unfounded views deserve an equal hearing or else they are being discriminated against.

April 29, 2008 9:51 AM

cleavet said:

I also think nturner is correct. Further, there is no way that Obama could throw Wright under even if he wanted to, not after sitting in the pews for 20 years, being married by the man, and having his daughters baptized by him.

Were I Obama, I would instead embrace Wright: "Reverend Wright is the man who led me to Jesus and who showed me how much good can be worked by faithful discipleship. I am distressed and even offended by some of his extreme opinions but I understand where they come from; they are not the whole story of this man."

April 29, 2008 9:52 AM

butchie b said:

Glad to see Naomi still has her pair of rose-colored glasses.  Faced with a choice of green kid who consorts with nutjobs and terrorists, against an old, familiar war hero, I'm betting on the latter.  Recession and war notwithstanding.  

But it's early.

April 29, 2008 10:20 AM

blackton said:

cleavet, a lot of catholics felt no compunction about throwing priests overboard after it was found they diddled the altar boys.

people go to Church service one hour a week. People spend more time a week shitting and pissing than they do in church. all of this just shows the lies we all tell ourselves about just how religious we are.

Obama simply can't say "listen, I go there once a week because we all kind of have to because the commandment says honor the sabbath, and because I wanted my children to have some foundation in Christianity, but truth to be told I now kind of wish I stayed home and watched football."

Having your marriage officiated is also pretty freaking meaningless. I got married in China, I have no idea who the hell officiated the service. So now Obama's hourly ritual indicates everything.

Fine, America deserves either Hillary or McCain. And the poor white people can say, as their lives go down the tube, "at least Obama ain't President, and that is good because....something to do with his minister, not sure how that effects me personally but Fox said it was bad so..."

April 29, 2008 10:54 AM

blackton said:

butchie, consort? and how much time do you spend with your own minister (if you in fact even attend church). Half the time when I go to church I get the name of the priest mixed up. Pretty much the only reason I do go is for my kids, so they can see the ritual, the faith, the values, yeah yeah.

good thing when I was an altar boy the priest I "consorted" with was a normal guy and never tried to "consort" with me, otherwise I have no idea what my attitude about the church would be.

April 29, 2008 11:04 AM

cspencef said:

John Hagee repeated his Katrina-was-punishment crapola again, after many moons had passed, and McCain didn't even flinch, and nobody in the media besides maybe Keith Olbermann had the decency to flog him for it.  Wright goes publicity hounding, Obama at least has the decency to say "that ain't me" and everybody in the media (including Olbermann, mind you) is set to crucify Obama for it.

We get what we deserve, I guess...and what we deserve isn't printable even in this forum...

April 29, 2008 11:49 AM

naomi88 said:

"Glad to see Naomi still has her pair of rose-colored glasses."

Butchie, it's you that has the pastel shades.  I know you're hoping and praying Reverend Jeremiah is going to save the Republican's bacon this election, but sorry, it aint gonna happen.  He'll be a distant memory by the fall. You had a poor field of candidates this year (the Preacher, the Plastic Mormon, the Grandfather the Cross-Dresser and the Somnambulist). You ended up with Gramps, and he isn't going to overcome the underlying realities.  No two term incumbent party has ever won re-election during a recession, and it's not gonna happen with John McCain at the helm ("economics is not really my thing.")

Enjoy it while it lasts.  Even during this free ride period while the Dems are spanking each other, McCain has never gone above 45% in the polls, and he never will.  The only silver lining for you is that the GOP has made such a mess of things it may not be fixable in four years, and you can win back the White House in 2012

April 29, 2008 11:51 AM

ChanRobt said:

Teplu, good speech for Obama.  But, you might have him mention amongst our enemies, Militant Islam.

April 29, 2008 12:07 PM

ChanRobt said:

Gang, what Wright is doing is positioning himself to take over the "Black Leadership" mantle from Jackson and Sharpton.  And, if he has to sabotage Obama to do it, why not.

Having that "leadership" crown is a license to mint money through extortion of corporations and the collection of support dollars for his church, now on a national scale rather than just regional.

For Wright, being "The Black Leader" is worth a hell of a lot more to him than having a former parishoner in the White House.  

And, who knows, he may end up with both.

April 29, 2008 12:12 PM

ChanRobt said:

PeteBeck, if he takes your advice and, "...Obama [has] church leaders of all denominations and races -- particularly African American -- gather around him to denounce Wright and point out that Wright is not mainstream, but rather that the extreme and nutty aspects of his views are an aberration..."

then how will Obama explain his sitting in Wright's church with his family for 20 years?

April 29, 2008 12:14 PM

cleavet said:

blackton writes: "a lot of catholics felt no compunction about throwing priests overboard after it was found they diddled the altar boys."

So you think that Wright is the equivalent of a kid-raper?

"Having your marriage officiated is also pretty freaking meaningless. I got married in China, I have no idea who the hell officiated the service."

Your experience is rather atypical, I suspect.

April 29, 2008 12:24 PM

teplukhin2you said:

Chan, that mint's up and running.

The first dividends from the mint have bought Wright a McMansion, with an elevator, a four-car garage, and a "rubberized exercise room." Not sure what that last is for but it sounds kewl.

www.suntimes.com/.../867629,CST-NWS-wright29.article

April 29, 2008 12:38 PM

ironyroad said:

Chan, I agree that I may not be acknowledging the rock and the hard place distinctly enough for you, but what I was trying to do was suggest that we've all had rock/hard place problems of different kinds, and sometimes you just have to weather them and sometimes you can slip through, because human beings are flexible and smart, and rocks and hard places aren't.

And I don't believe that most people buy into the "why did he sit there for 20 years?" line, except people who want to buy into it already.  Anyone one encounters in life can have a combination of positive and negative factors, especially people with authority and a platform like a priest or teacher, but sometimes it comes out as a plus below the line.  Thus, if the broader effect of Wright's pastorship was one of strengthening community cohesion and giving hope and solace to large numbers of people, then it was both possible and unremarkable for Obama to swallow some other stuff along with that.

But the context has now changed, radically.  What's happening is that -- as someone else put it yesterday on another thread -- Wright has been a big fish in a smallish pond and doesn't realize that, now he's in the ocean, then he's not a big fish anymore, but bait.  Obama needs to re-establish control of this situation by drawing attention back to the wider issues and not feeding Wright's ego even more (and serving the interests of whoever's behind this lates chapter).

And for what it's worth:  In a really important sense, Wright is trying to dispute, to dislodge, the central argument of Obama's "race" speech in Philly, and Obama needs to find a way to say that -- in contrast to most Americans -- Wright unfortunately, sadly, unhapply, doesn't get it.

April 29, 2008 12:40 PM

jhildner said:

I hate Wright now.  I hate him like I hate Ralph Nader.  Mind-blowing "let the heavens fall" sort of behavior does not signal an admirable adherence to principle.  It signals immaturity and self-centeredness -- tolerable except when destructive.  Obama goes out of his way not to throw this guy under the bus, and how does he repay him?  By throwing *Obama* under the next one.  I don't know what the best political response from Obama is right now -- something more harsh about Wright than hitherto I would suppose -- but I know what I would *feel* like doing if I were in his place.  I would feel like rejecting, denouncing, ruining, and generally fucking over this asshole.

April 29, 2008 1:04 PM

butchie b said:

Naomi, you may be right (if not Wright).  But what if the economy is turning around by October, still 6 months away, Iraq is quiet, etc.  This could be reality then - who knows?

Wright indeed may be forgotten by then, and Bill Ayers may say he's sorry for wanting to murder his fellow Americans.

Also, I think you focus on party too much - McCain ain't W.  I know y'all will try to tie them together, but JM has such a reputation and a record of criticizing Bush, it may not stick as well as you think.  We know McCain.  We don't know BHO - not yet, anyway.

In the meantime, the good rev. may keep on yappin'.

It's early.

April 29, 2008 1:25 PM

butchie b said:

Blackie, I don't go to church, but most of my friends know exactly who married them and why.  but that wasn't my point - it's that BHO has been a church member for 20 years.  Surely he's heard some of this before.

April 29, 2008 1:26 PM

bhunziker said:

Naomi, if Obama loses Indiana and can't win decisively in North Carolina, then goes on to lose West Virginia, Kentucky, and Puerto Rico, Clinton will have closed the gap considerably and shown that she's the stronger candidate.  Superdelegates may move in her direction, especially if she closes the gap in popular votes as well.

Look, I've sent money to Obama, canvased for him, and registered voters for his campaign. But the fact is that more people now have gone out to polls to show their support for Clinton than have for Obama.  We might not like to count Florida or Washington for that matter, but when this is over, she will have a powerful argument to make to superdelegates, especially if Obama is seen as tanking at the end.

April 29, 2008 1:55 PM

ChanRobt said:

To reiterate what I've posted in two parallel threads, I've been watching and am now listening to Obama's press conference on Wright.  He is doing an excellent job for himself.  This may prove a much more effective start in getting out from under Wright than was the Philly speech, elegant though that was.

April 29, 2008 2:12 PM

teplukhin2you said:

wb, hildner. View this as an opportunity for your man to show he can wield a shiv. An essential skill in politics, mind.

April 29, 2008 2:26 PM

naomi88 said:

"Naomi, if Obama loses Indiana and can't win decisively in North Carolina, then goes on to lose West Virginia, Kentucky, and Puerto Rico, Clinton will have closed the gap considerably and shown that she's the stronger candidate.  Superdelegates may move in her direction, especially if she closes the gap in popular votes as well."

bhunziker:

Obama was always going to lose Kentucky and WVa. Those states are tailor-made for Hillary, but they are relatively small states with few Democratic delegates. And Obama will win North Carolina, he'll win Oregon, and probably Montana and South Dakota.  There will be no "tanking at the end" story line, because he'll win his share.  And even if there was,  Obama will be in first place in pledged delegates no matter what, and that's the only count that really matters.  Trying to measure the popular vote in a nomination fight is an exercise in futility, with 15 states using the caucus system, and with 24 states voting on the same day while other states having six weeks to increase the turnout (Pennsylvania).   The supers will NOT overturn the results of the pledged delegates and give it to the candidate in second place.  There is no way that will happen.  That would destroy the party, as they are full aware.      

Short of a lightning strike on Obama, Hillary has already lost, and I'm sure she knows it.  But she keeps on trucking, praying for thunderstorms.

April 29, 2008 2:51 PM

RichardDuBois said:

All Obama has to do is say that he stuck with Wright and the church because Wright is the man who led him to Jesus for which Obama will always be in Wright's debt.  Obama can say that most sermons were focused on the teachings of Jesus Christ and how we can strive to be better Christians; not on the government spreading AIDS and whatnot.  Obama can add that while he often disagreed with the reverend on political issues when it came to learning The Gospel he realized that sometimes the Lord uses an imperfect vessel to work His will and spread His message.

Then Obama can continue to take the high road and say all these distractions won't do a damn thing to help those suffering with inflation and end the Iraq debacle, but slyly add that this is what those in power want.

All this Jesus talk will be certain to score loads of bonus points with the bible thumpers and it will cow the preening peacocks of the media into submission.  Once Obama starts talking openly about Jesus, his faith and how Reverend Wright introduced him to the sweet light of our Savior then the smarmy media mainstream media pundits will all fall silent for fear of coming across as anti-Christian or for ridiculing someone else's faith.

Obama will have at once explained why he stuck with Wright and smoothly put a mile of distance between himself and this divisive, narcissistic pastor.  It will also go over great in Indiana.  After that the more Wright clamors for attention the more he will look like a toddler throwing a tantrum who desperately needs a time out in the corner.

April 29, 2008 3:27 PM

jhildner said:

Tep -- I think he did it.  What he should have done before, you might say.  I don't know about that, but whatever.  Through the whole thing, he comes across honest, while doing what he needs to.

April 29, 2008 3:29 PM

GSpinks said:

I would like to start out by says Hello to all the regular commentors and authors. I have been reading the articles, journals and commentaries for some time now, and I've been mostly impressed with the quality of the discussion I find here. This site makes most other media outlets look like a bunch of name-calling kindergarteners. I've never before encountered a media outlet for which I required a dictionary in order to read the articles.

Now that the pleasantries are over...

Crowley, are you out of your mind? I apologize in advance, but I must now summarily slaughter your little posting because the blazing ignorance is driving me crazy.

Although Wright may actually habor some bitterness for someone, he obviously has a ton of respect for Barack and what Barack has said. Wright was simply attempting to highlight the line of distinction between the work and words of a Politician and the work and words of a Pastor. Politics and (real) Theology have long been keenly seperated in America, since before the 1st amendment. The division actually was first codified when, in the Declaration of Independence, the founding fathers declared "We hold these truths to be self evident...". This division was a direct response to the theological wars occurring in Europe at that time; it was intended as a new framework from which to base a new morality, one that allows for a pluralistic society. If you saw anything, it was Wright's open acceptance that Barack has chosen to play the role of politician instead of preacher; the "open acceptance" is not apparent until the NPC when Wright explains that he is going to treat Barack the same as any other candidate that might win the GE. It is something Wright probably does not want to do when he feels like he should be celebrating a member of his parish being elected POTUS but Wright will perform his duties as a loyal pastor to his flock.

Wright's bitterness, the one you think you saw in his answer about Barack's speech, is the tip of the iceberg you describe as "a new level of fury at a media/cultural establishment he feels has demonized him". Since you are obviously clueless, let me draw a picture of what happened in the last month: some very secular, very white news anchors from Faux News walked into TUCC on the South Side during his first sermon after 9/11, knocked him over the head with the butt of their camera, dragged him into the street, curb-stomped him while charging him with false crimes, then summarily convicted him, and left him bloody and dying in the middle of the street. Then they tried to convict Barack on charges of being an accessory after the fact. Oh yes, a whole new level of fury, bound in a black man who is undoubtedly one of the smartest people in the country, and a highly respected Theologian to boot.

Barack and Wright share at least one view, a feverish desire to see ALL Americans reconciled and united. Again, one is a Politician, and one is a Pastor; each is going to address this issue in their own way, from their own vantage points. You've been drinking too much Faux Koolaid.

The presence of the Nation of Islam does not signify Wright's lunacy. Wright has had death threats against him and his church since Faux News first started their slime campaign. Obviously some very pious Whities are not happy with the picture being painted by White Media outlets (and I say that because I have yet to see a Black Media outlet, or any single black person, jump on Billow's bandwagon on this issue). Wright and Farrakhan have a long established working relationship. Farrakhan is probably worried for his friend, and ordered the protection; which is more than justified since MLK's untimely demise. If anything, their presence signifies that we will be able to peacefully integrate the Nation of Islam into our national discussion on Race Issues in coming years, and perhaps make some REAL progress.

The best hope for Obama here is for Obama to keep doing what Obama does best; you will find that, even without coordinating their efforts behind the scenes, Obama and Wright are going to end up working in conjunction with each other and certain political pundits, politicians, and media outlets are going to find themselves facing huge national backlash.

Get your popcorn ready, because its going to be a show.

April 29, 2008 5:14 PM

blackton said:

butchie: But what if the economy is turning around by October? That is about the funniest thing I have ever heard you write. Oh wait, you are serious? You mean gas prices will go down by October? And houses will rebound? and the dollar will rise? and the deficit fall?

you know what happened in Va. yesterday, well this is America for the next few years. Poor people and the middle class will have no extra money to bolster our economy, most of it will be going to Arab sheiks.

April 29, 2008 6:05 PM

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