As someone who considers himself religious, may I nevertheless say that this is one of the most appealing aspects of McCain's character?

I agree that McCain's relatively low key approach to "faith" on the campaign trail is appealing.  

Less appealing is the way he cozyed up to theocratic extremists like Hagee and Parsley and his curious statement that America was established as a "Christian Nation."  

But I suppose it's all relative.  McCain's pandering to this element is considerably less than we'd see from any other Republican candidate and many Democratic ones.  

If you happen to be a secular humanist or simply someone who believes that separation of Church and State is instrumental to freedom of conscience, it may be that from the Republican side, McCain is as good as it gets.

damn right (pardon the expression) timteeter. Separation of church and state and all. Or shall we now require, in reciprocity, that every Church service every candidate goes to be filmed and the sermon poured over to glean hints about future tax policy or deviance from any kind of American norm.

And of course Hillary knows the Bible inside and out, doesn't everyone know the devil can recite scripture by heart? (this is a stupid joke people. I don't think Hillary is THE devil, only more like a minor demon like a succubus)

Succubi take the form of beautiful women, blackie.

Does McCain even believe in Jeebus?

Blackton:

Since I'm already on the record damning Hillary to hell (though I'll write her in if she's the nominee with some sort of insulting nickname in the middle) and I've already opened that pandora's box, I might as well take the bait.

It's clear to me that Hillary, once in Hell, will use her 35 years of experience to run for some sort of high powered demon position. The question is: Will she run as the inevitable demon? Or the change demon?

Lets not forget that McCain is the most palatable Republican candidate most of us Dems could have even imagined over the past eight years. That doesn't mean we should vote for him over Obama or, god forbid, Hillary, but we should be somewhat thankful for this anyway. He's not a member of the religious right. He opposes torture - he'd keep the war going but he'd at least do it BETTER, for whatever that's worth. Yeah, he's had to posture and pander and flip all over the place to make himself palatable to his party and I can't say I'm certain of who the real McCain is. But I'd still consider him a massive improvement over the current occupant or anyone else the Republicans would have put up.

This low key approach to religion is just one facet of that. I prefer it to either Hillary or Barak's public approach to religion, although I hope their approach ultimately helps them win.

ramboorider:

I agree. McCain still has as oft spot in my book after coming to VA and calling the religious right, "The forces of evil". I think star wars ep. 2 was out that week or something.

And the dems can do whatever it takes to court the religious vote. Obama is in a bit of a tight spot. He can't really use his chritian faith because it reminds people of Wright. But then other people think he's a Muslim! It's a catch 22. Fortunately, most of the "Obama=Muslim" folks are Republicans who have a hard time lifting their arms above their shoulders.

Good question, vc.  Whichever option wins out, I envision some good campaign ads....

"It's 3 am and your imps are safe and asleep.  But in the pentagram office, a phone is ringing.  This time, the crisis is moral: millions of people are giving up a life of sin and washing themselves in the redeeming blood of the lamb .... "

Interesting Hell election thoughts. But are we presupposing the 22nd Amendment applies in Hell? If not, it’s almost a certainty Bill would be running against her; and he’s clearly the better politician whether on Earth or elsewhere. (Relax everyone. This is for fun. Hillary is not going to Hell; but if she is, Bill is.)

Or would the Clintons run for office in different circles of Hell. And if so, where? I assume Bill would poll highly in the second. Not sure where Hillary would be strongest; maybe the eighth? But, of course, Cheney has to be the favorite there.

Someone should ask Rove.

"Fortunately, most of the "Obama=Muslim" folks are Republicans who have a hard time lifting their arms above their shoulders."

VC,

Maybe you don't know this, but McCain can't lift his arms about his shoulders because of injuries he received as a POW. People have to help him put his jacket on, comb his hair, ect.

So, maybe a different description of Obama=Muslim folks would be more appropriate.  

Who knows with the Clintons, but Bill Richardson just earned himself some ninth circle action!

As a member in good standing in the churck of secular humanism, McCain is certainly as good it gets in the modern day Republican party.  Ain't sayin' much, though.  Wrong on the issues in an appealing package is still wrong on the issues.

Ratner - "Pentagram Office" was classic.  Keep it coming.

What time zone is Hell in?

Speaking of Hell, TNR should dig up and rerun on the website the "Nixon in Hell" article that ran shortly after he died. A nearly perfect 1 page, worth the price of subscription. I kept it for years and finally scanned it.

McCain as a person is going to be very appealing in the general. If only his policies were different...

Adamvaught:

That would be an obvious reference to right-wing knuckle dragging neanderthals, not war veterans (and particularly not war veterans who I complimented upthread).

I guess knuckle draggers is a better way to phrase it.

Ratnerstar:

The craziest thing is that Hillary may be beaten by suprise insurgent Hitler who uses brimstone-roots support from tons of dead nazis and his speechmaking skills. That would be unfortunate, because when it comes down to it, Hitler can't win in the general election against Charles Manson.

Okay, I don't mean to be a nit-picker, but these spelling errors are getting out of hand.  It makes TNR look like a bunch of 15 year old bloggers.  Furthermore, the typos don't even make sense!

"Democratis candidate"

"Democratic candidate" perhaps?  The 's' and the 'c' keys aren't that close together!  They're not even on the same row!

Ditto with "Burger Kind" - the 'f' keeps the 'd' and 'g' keys from fighting, so how did that happen?

I dicadree, bsbaird, thoce cortc of errorc are extremely eacy to make.

Off-topic I suppose but funny (to me). A friend of mine saw a bumper sticker recently, that read, "Cheney/Satan in 2008."

VC,

I wasn’t suggesting you were insulting McCain or veterans in general. Only given McCain’s condition your choice of words might leave you open to a “you hate the troops and America!” attack from a right-wing knuckle dragging neanderthal.  

Slow day at the ole blog, eh?

tomeg - I think one of my personal favorites was: "Cthulhu For President: Why choose the lesser evil?"

Another completely off-topic and unrelated remark: Today, as I was driving home from the bank (a place I rarely visit) I saw a Nixon/Agnew bumper sticker.  The car it was on wasn't old enough to be from that era, and I doubt such a sticker would last that long.  I suppose the kitsch value was too good to pass up.

Even more unrelated: Driving back home Saturday, I spotted a car with custom plates.  They were handicapped plates and read "LAME."  I got a chuckle out of that.

Puls as lnog as the frsit and lsat leettrs are rihgt, it rlleay deons’t maettr if the wrod is splleed corertcly; the txet wlil be legilbe engouh . So jmup dwon of the seplilng hgih-hrsoe, Naoh Wesbetr.  

adam, oh yeah? suss this then: 武侠小说里总说，练武到底是为了什么？是强身健体，是救助苦难，还仅仅是为了逞英雄？理解中华武术的人，只是在捍卫一个灵魂！

bcbaird, I saw a Nixon/Agnew sticker a couple weeks ago and it appeared to be new or very recently applied. I wonder what's up? Do you live in Los Angeles - perhaps we've seen the same sticker?

Blackon,

Chicken Fried Rice.

see, i sure showed adamvaught, really put him in his place. Adam, never forget the importance of guarding the soul. bcbaird seeks to safeguard our souls, you to condemn us. bcbaird is the true Jesus here on this thread.

What's with this crush on McCain? Russert drools over him. The media melts when he lowers his voice and says "my friend". And this thread is filled with admiration for this uber-hawk.

At a time when the country is completely out of control regarding foreign policy, the only guy who out-hawks Bush is good news? He's a dolt on the economy, his personal life makes Sarkozy look modest (he's now used up, but does anyone care about him walking out on his family for his dope-stealing replacement model?), and he's possibly the most uneducated serious candidate for office in decades - Bush has better academic records.

A not very smart guy with a very bad temper who's slouching towards dementia: And everyone admires him!

Well Fougasseu, you've just spelled out why Obama may beat him... I suppose most people feel that despite his negatives, of which they are dimly aware, he is in many respects an "honest" and "honorable" man.  In light of what we have seen from Bush II and Co... it looks goods ... All things are relative right?  Besides for some of us, Hillary (who wants to be called by her first name... look at her website) has stepped beyond the pale in terms of character and judgment.

tomeg:

The sticker I saw was north of Washington, DC.  There are a few sites selling new stickers, but I couldn't find anyone printing that particular design.  After some research, it is apparently a vintage sticker, the top one in this photo:

i14.ebayimg.com/.../5bf4_1.JPG

Which gives me an idea: I could recreate the original sticker and then sell it via my cafepress shop.  Fifteen minutes of work is certain to net me at least two dollars in profit.

-

Get thee behind me, adamvaught.

I don't think there is an ounce of "Oprah America" in Senator McCain, thank God.

Of all the things that are worse about America since the 60s, this insistence "openness" is one of the most egregious.

America suffer from TMI of the most revolting kind.  I wish science would take all the reality shows along with the confessionals like Oprah and cause the lot of them to be sucked into a black hole.  

Then maybe people like Senator McCain, who gives a hint of what men used to be like before they were metrosexuals, will be the ascendant role models once again.

Yes Chan...I agree we need to return to the days of when men were men and the women were stay-at-home wives. I pine for the days of 3 martini lunches, when you could slap your secretary on the rump and she demured that you were being a 'naughty boy', and calling women 'broads' was acceptable, and we wore three piece suits everywhere and fadoras were a part of the uniform.

I can roll up my shirt sleeves, unbutton my vest, have at least two whiskeys before dinner and no one accuses me of having a drinking problem. Then I can smoke a bowl of Sail tinned tobacco and my adoring wife will give my manly, executive feet a rub down.

Or I could put my plaids on and chop some wood...leaping from tree to tree as I float down the mighty rivers of British Columbia. www.youtube.com/watch

Ah...there's nothing manlier....

Absolutely, singlespeed, those were the days.

Oh, and singlespeed, how did you know?  "I'm a Lumberjack, and I'm O.K." is one of my favorites songs.

In any event, better that as a masculine ideal than the effeminate ehtos that reigns today.  Pussies don't climb Mt. Everest, land on the moon, discover America, and take California, Arizona, New Mexico, and Texas from the Mexicans before they f***k it up.