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COLUMNISTS
TODAY'S STORIES
20.03.2008
A Nagging Wright Question

There's one thing about the Jeremiah Wright controversy that keeps nagging at me: This crazy shibboleth promoted by Wright that the US government "lied about inventing the HIV virus as a means of genocide against people of color."

Of all the outrageous statements we've heard from Wright, this one is in a special category. Some of Wright's other outbursts are simply offensive name calling ("US of KKK-A," "God damn America"). Others may shock middle America but are common on the left, and at least arguable (US foreign policy invited the 9/11 attacks, rich racist whites run America, Hiroshima was a moral abomination).

But this AIDS thing is something different. First of all, it is not an opinion: It is a demonstrable falsehood. Not only that, it promotes a wildly conspiratorial wordview, one extremely corrosive to black America. It instills African-Americans with a belief that whites aren't just prejudiced, but trying to eliminate them. I can understand blacks' grievances about, say, the war on drugs. But how could any black kid who thinks the white establishment is propagating genocide want to succeed in (white) American society? How could he ever trust any white person he meets? And what are the consequences of that for both races?

Apart from fostering a terrible sense of victimhood, the AIDS conspiracy also suggests that black Americans can't even trust supposedly empirical scientific fact. Of course, if my people had suffered Tuskegee-like experiments, I would be pretty suspicious myself. But the legitimate existence of such suspicions makes it all the more deplorable to exploit them, in much the same way Obama's wonderful speech this week deplored the way conservatives have whipped up white racial resentments for political gain.

So, it's one thing for Obama to have done nothing to contest Wright's tirades on race and American foreign policy. You can argue that Wright was entitled to those beliefs. But he is not entitled to peddle a ridiculous lie to a captive and reverential audience. And if Obama knew Wright was doing so, shouldn't he have said something? At a minimum, wouldn't he have felt compelled to say something?

The point isn't to score a gotcha on Obama. It's to get a clearer sense of his political style. To have challenged Wright on this claim would have been an act of political leadership--not least because it wouldn't have been easy. Indeed, it would be fine evidence of Obama's credo of telling people what they need to hear, not what they want to hear. Of course, maybe Obama never heard Wright say this at all. I tend to doubt it. But if that's the case, it'd be nice to hear Obama flatly say so.

P.S. No, Wright is not a monster. Here he is leading his congregation in a mass onstage AIDS test to demonstrate its ease and importance. But a right doesn't undo a wrong, either.

--Michael Crowley

Posted: Thursday, March 20, 2008 1:15 PM with 42 comment(s)

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miceelf said:

Michael, the press seems to be assuming that the AIDS stuff and the other offensive statements were made very frequently. Is that actually the case? I've seen three clips of the man. I honestly have no idea how isolated those statements were n the context of Wright's sermons.

This seems like a crucial point, as it goes directly to how credible Obama's claims are. Why is no one discussing/investigating this?

March 20, 2008 1:17 PM

letsinb said:

The AIDS canard, along with the expression of solidarity with the Palestinians, were the two statements of Wright's from his "God damn America" jeremiad that sounded especially harsh to my ears. But I have heard them both for years, and have been a bit surprised to find that my friends had not heard about the AIDS conspiracy before. It seems to me a classic back-formation from effect to cause: thousands are dying in Africa from AIDS; our government does little to address it; the question is then raised, is this because the outcome is desired at some level? Is it even being actively brought about? Of course not -- but it seems to me there is a kernel of truth in there.

March 20, 2008 1:39 PM

cjax71 said:

It's not just Tuskegee -- check out Harriet Washington's MEDICAL APARTHEID, which just won the National Book Critics Circle award for the long and sorry history of the sort of racist shenanigans perpetrated by the American medical establishment, often hand-in-hand with the government; and check out the history of biological and chemical weapons development by apartheid-era South African government to see how disease propogation w/racist intent is not some paranoid fantasy.  Further, he didn't say it was all white people or all American governments imaginable now and in the future that generated AIDS, anymore than every American government now and in the future supports slavery as the American government once did.  In other words, he may be wrong on the facts, but the message he sent was not of despair but skepticism, and skepticism of the American government, particularly among black Americans, but really for all of us, is never a bad idea.  Skepticism would've stopped Hilary from believing false claims about WMD, would've stopped 60% of Americans from following the Bush admin innuendo about Iraq and Al Qaeda, would've made us question the wisdom of the great Greenspan, etc. Honestly, white folks in this country can be a credulous lot and have shown themselves (in this magazine certainly) to be totally gullible to the false claims of white men in suits, but eager to parse a preacher's decades-long ministry for questionable comments that come from a far healthier spirit of skepticism -- I love that Obama didn't jump up in outrage whenever Wright expressed an opinion contrary to the bedtime stories white journalists put themselves to sleep with.  Skepticism about American exceptionalism is one of the great virtues of African American political thought and it's one that I'm thrilled that Obama has been exposed to.  

March 20, 2008 1:42 PM

jhildner said:

Crowley makes a good point here.  The discussion so far hasn't distinguished any of Wright's "deplorable" comments, most of which don't bother *me* that much (though I disagree with them).  (They would bother me from a candidate, but not a candidate's friend.)  But the AIDS conspiracy theory is, to my mind, in a class by itself.  I would be interested to know the answers to (a) whether he had heard the AIDS thing before, (b) whether it was a common feature of his sermons, and (c) if so, whether Obama spoke with Wright about it.  I *believe* that he has said that he has spoken with Wright about views he disagrees with, but that's a vague recollection of mine and could be wrong, and it also doesn't address this particular issue.

Meanwhile, Wright's confrontation of AIDS in the black community is really important, and is an example of the good works that his congregation is said to engage in routinely, and also unusal for a black church where AIDS and homosexuality can be very uncomfortable topics.  A right doesn't undo a wrong, but it serves as a reminder that we're getting a caricatured view of Wright with the recent clips, and it may well be that, overall, his good does outweigh his bad.

March 20, 2008 1:44 PM

woland said:

As I've said on this site before, one poll I heard of found that well over 50% of black Americans believe that AIDS was created by the U.S. government to destroy black people.  I've even debated this point with a fellow lawyer at my job who believes that this is abomination is true.  Obama's speech may just open up the eyes of white Americans to just how pervasive and pernicious black rage is in this country and hopefully they will understand why Obama said that although he rejects Rev. Wright's comments he cannot disown Rev. Wright any more than he can disown the black community.    

March 20, 2008 1:47 PM

basman said:

..but not a candidate's friend...

Of course, his "friend." But I guess this is well worn ground that need not be re-trod.

March 20, 2008 1:56 PM

arsonplus said:

You just can't expect a people basically drowning in dichotomous history to act as if only one set of facts is true because it would make you feel better Crowley. That's just not, well, fair.

March 20, 2008 2:14 PM

Wandreycer1 said:

Good point Michael, but - welcome to most of humanity: we're very yin/yang, especially charismatic leaders.

March 20, 2008 2:22 PM

Wandreycer1 said:

That is some righteous shit, brother cjax71, thanks - I needed that.

March 20, 2008 2:25 PM

lymon1 said:

In Chicago, this theory has another angle: that it was Jewish doctors who invented AIDS and infected black babies with it.  A guy named Steven Cokely, a Chicago southsider who was then an aid to the mayor, was discovered spreading this crap and it caused a similar controversy as the mayor dithered about whether to fire Cokely.  I think Cokely was a member of the Nation of Islam but don't remember -- this was back in the late 1980's.  

March 20, 2008 2:47 PM

teplukhin2you said:

Obama should have focused his speech on not race but conspiracy-mongering in America. That way, he could have

-- denounced Wright's garbage in the harshest possible terms, in effect Souljah'ing him for a specific action rather than trying to explain his entire relationship with the man

-- reminded the voters of similar garbage spewed by the GOP's own crazy preachers on the right

-- reinforced his image as the one who will move our politics onto a higher plane

Instead, he gave us endless blather about the History of Race Relations in America, emphasizing race itself and REINFORCING, not diminishing, his association with Wright in the public eye.

This speech was a huge missed opportunity for Obama. More than anything it points out the huge divide between not white and black but ordinary people of common sense and our well-credentialed, race-obsessed commentariat.

March 20, 2008 2:47 PM

lymon1 said:

In Chicago in the late 1980s, this theory was presented with a different twist -- that Jewish doctors infected black babies with AIDS.  It was a big local media story as the mayor at the time had a Nation of Islam (I think) aide -- Steven Cokely -- and the mayor dithered over firing him.

March 20, 2008 2:56 PM

teplukhin2you said:

woland - I hear you, and I have no doubt that most afr-amers hold such views. My own experience validates this. Over the last 20+ years or so I've heard allusions to this from friends, classmates, colleagues and others, and my response when such subjects are raised is always the same: You're out of your f***ing mind!

The delivery may vary-- sometimes I do my Mother Wattles voice and add, "That one, he ain't right in the heeeaaaad", and other times I do a Jesse Jackson ditty. Depends on the friend/colleague in question.

But the idea is complete BS, and if Obama had just focused his windy speech on ** conspiracy-mongering **, and denounced it with his usual mix of wit and wisdom-- aka Souljah'ed the conspiracy mentality-- he'd have hit a hoome run.

As it is, he whiffed. he's satisfied no one who doesn't have a rhetoric jones, a column to write or  an advanced degree. A huge missed opportunity.

best,

t

March 20, 2008 2:57 PM

teplukhin2you said:

GORE FOR PRESIDENT IN 2008

March 20, 2008 3:15 PM

ironyroad said:

There are a couple of things:  first, if you were an American Indian rather than black, you would have no shortage of valid historical evidence that the Europeans tried not only to take over the continent but also that many attempted to wipe your people off the map while they were about it.  To that extent, genocidal intent lurks in the shadow of the settling of America.

On the other hand, groundless bs is groundless bs.  I remember that on another site I had a substantial exchange (along with others) trying to point out to some dunderheads that the conspiracy theories about 9/11 all, without exception, have so many logical holes that an alert 10-year old could pick them apart.  I don't know if we succeeded, but there are certainly thousands more here and probably millions abroad that believe in one version or another of them.

It's the anti-semitic thread in apocalyptic black thinking that Obama needed to confront, because that's where the at least historically legitimate suspicion that whites are out to get you shades into a belief that a big role is being played in that conspiracy by the very people -- Jews, specifically -- whom whites were ALSO out to get until relatively recently.  There's a weird dynamic going on there, in Wright's case too, as if to admit the Holocaust were to reduce by X the total amount of "victimhood credit" available in the cosmos -- a zero-sum deal -- so you have to try to discredit the Jews in order to free up some for blacks.

March 20, 2008 3:26 PM

redemption438 said:

Interesting posts - I too was most depressed about that particular statement, but there are a bunch of conspiracy theories on the right that rank up there with this one.

I suspect the percentage of conservatives who don't believe in evolution is higher than the percentage of African-Americans who believe this stuff about AIDS. And with creationism, we're not even talking about fringe preachers, we're talking about leading politicians and their own words. Of course, it does take extremists to extend a belief in creationism to a true conspiracy theory about the teaching of evolution and how it is a liberal scheme to destroy society. But it's not rare to hear that. And how many conservative politicians would actually leave a church if their preacher was saying that in a sermon? Not many. They probably wouldn't even notice it was unusual.

March 20, 2008 3:47 PM

cjax71 said:

where does Wright ever say that "whites" are out to get anyone, much less Jews?  he says that the American government has, at times, been out to get black people (among other people around the world).  that is undeniably true.  he also says that the American government has historically been run by rich white people who don't have the interests of poor black people at heart.  also true.  but he never even said that rich white people, generically, are out to get black folks -- he was talking specifically about the people behind the policies that he denounced.  but he never talked about "white people" generally or jews.  and holocaust denial?  i mean, where are you getting this?   why is it considered brave to talk about the pathological aspects of black culture, in fact, you insist that Barack confront conspiratorial ideas in the black community, but somehow talking about the historical pathologies of wealthy white culture is beyond the pale, a slippery slope to anti-semitism and holocaust denial?  this is the sort of hypocrisy that drives black folks to conspiratorial thinking -- this sort of double standard.  are white people really that sensitive to criticism that even the premise that power is concentrated among wealthy whites in this country -- a self-evident fact -- and that power has, throughout history, been detrimental to black folks, can only be whispered and full of qualifications?  the AIDS thing is unsupportable, and who knows if it was ever repeated, or if Wright himself has recanted on that over the years, or what context that was spoken in, or what, but his overall thesis about America is entirely reasonable, and only paranoid if you deny the truth of American history.  

March 20, 2008 3:49 PM

Rhubarbs said:

Tep, I like the planet you're living on. I really do. I'm just afraid that it's not, you know, real.

Anyway, I have less anecdotal experience with divergent racial views on AIDS being some kind of white conspiracy. What I have experienced is a great majority of the black people I've conversed about the topic with since the mid-1990s seem to take personal offense at the theory that AIDS originated with a primate-human crossover in Africa. It's as if the notion that a terrible disease would come from Africa somehow amounts to a moral judgment against people of African descent.

March 20, 2008 3:59 PM

ndmackenzie said:

teplukhin2you writes:

-- Obama should have focused his speech on not race but conspiracy-mongering in America.

Jesus wept, talk about not being able to see the forest for the trees.

Race is a major issue in America - and is certainly an issue worth a 45 minute speech.  Conspiracy mongering is a trivial issue that a presidential candidate should not even have the time to think about let alone discuss in a major set-piece speech.

Of course, if you don't like a candidate and you don't like the fact that he presented one of the greatest political speeches of the last few decades then you might wish that he had talked about something else like conspiracy mongering.  The speech Obama gave in Philadelphia was long overdue, not just from him, but from any politician in America.

March 20, 2008 4:00 PM

Wandreycer1 said:

Tep - I love Gore, but he is a rotten politician!

March 20, 2008 4:04 PM

aeromonas said:

Woland, could you provide a link to the poll that suggests that HALF of black Americans believe the US Govt invented HIV?  I first heard the CIA theory of HIV twenty years ago from a black coworker at a warehouse where I had a summer job, and within the last year I've heard it circulated within Namibia, one of the most heavily HIV-effected nations in the world.  But having personal and professional associations with Africans and African-Americans themselves infected with HIV and many others hoping to avoid the infection, I find the notion that 50% of American blacks hold this false belief implausible.

March 20, 2008 4:13 PM

Wandreycer1 said:

aero - did  you read that research article somewhere recently (sorry I cannot remember where) that seems to prove that untrue rumors stick more in the brain than rumors that turn out to be true?  Even when the evidence is clear that something is not true?  Something about the brain hanging on tighter to lies.  Fascinating stuff - it was in response to the Obama/Muslim stuff that just will not die.

March 20, 2008 4:24 PM

williamyard said:

Y'all ever make pancakes? Then you know it's a given that the first pancake is a failure. You almost have to figure that the first one goes to the dog, just to get the pan primed. The dog's pancake is fine for the dog, and the following pancakes, more often than not, are pancakes, i.e., wonderful.

The dog will be happily cleaning his muzzle over Obama's failure to absolutely completely ain't no bout a doubt it disavow the Wright Stuff, including such AIDS malarkey, even as everybody is still ordering up plate after plate of Obama's all-you-can-eat dee-licious pancakes with fresh whole blueberries, so big they hang over the edges of the plate, with big slabs of butter surfing across 'em and slow floods of syrup straight from Aunt Esther's country place up in Vermont.

He may have been a little tight during The Speech, but, really, the man has yet to break a sweat. Hillary has no chance, and he will tear McCain apart. Everyone has swallowed this myth that McCain takes the high road. Obama will hand McCain his high road on a platter. Then, after you get past McCain's myth, what is there?

Wright is nothing. Hell, Obama's probably saving some of it, just to use after the convention when the subject comes up. What for other pols is a bobble, for Obama is a deke.

March 20, 2008 4:27 PM

jhildner said:

Yard:  Dee-licious post!

March 20, 2008 4:48 PM

teplukhin2you said:

If Obama had made the subject of his talk not race but idiotic conspiracy-mongering generally, and its toxic effects on not just the public discourse but on individual choices and behaviors (cf one's views on the source and spread of the AIDS virus and their relationship to risky sexual behavior), he'd have hit the ball squarely up the middle. This would have

-- indirectly but effectively souljah'ed Wright, by souljah'ing his most toxic remarks

-- shone a spotlight on the Right's own toxic preachers, thus forcing McCain off-balance and into a defensive posture re Hagee, Falwell and the Right's Wrights

-- reinforced his cred as the un-politician dedicated to cleaning up our discourse and moving US politics onto a higher plane.

All of the above could have easily been accomplished in a brief speech, followed by a barrage of hard questions to McCain, TV ads and email blasts in which Obama denounces conspiracy-mongers of all types, maybe some homemade YouTubes by Obama supporters that make fun of BOTH Wright's AIDS conspiracy theories and right wing preachers' AIDS and other conspiracy theories, Ron Paul's anti-semitic garbage etc

Instead, Obama chose to swing for the fences with his gaseous History of Race In America. And whiffed. Pity.

March 20, 2008 4:55 PM

The Stump said:

I'm straying from the topic of the campaign, but this is fascinating stuff. So I want to follow up

March 20, 2008 4:58 PM

teplukhin2you said:

oops, sorry for double post. Never mind. /e. litello

March 20, 2008 5:08 PM

ndmackenzie said:

teplukin2you writes:

-- Instead, Obama chose to swing for the fences with his gaseous History of Race In America. And whiffed. Pity.

Looks like a lot of Americans enjoy the smell of that "gaseous" speech. Up till a minute or so ago the speech had been viewed, or at least glanced, 2,254,561 times. I don't think Clinton, McCain or even Gore could get that many viewers for any speech - let alone one frought with as much difficulty as a speech on race in America.

teplukhin2you still does not understand the difference between tactics and strategy and between policy and politics. Even as he criticizes Obama as a lightweight teplukhin2you would rather Obama make a speech on the triviality that is "idiotic conspiracy-mongering " rather than on the really important topic of race in America.

I have far more respect for a candidate who tackles the problem of race in America head on, as Obama did in his speech, than a candidate who thinks "conspiracy mongering" is an important issue worth wasting time on.

March 20, 2008 5:18 PM

jhildner said:

Tep:  I think you're going a little overboard here.  The issue of conspircy theories doesn't pack a lot of punch.  Hard to imagine a major speech denouncing conspiracy theories.  Weird.  Obama's speech -- in addition to being one of the best speeches I've ever heard -- again -- was more on point.  I think a little time will show that he did what he needed to on Wright and, beyond that, showed a lot of people why he's without doubt presidential material.

March 20, 2008 6:11 PM

guyminuslife said:

You know, if the government were really trying to kill all the black people, they could have done it a long, long time ago. AIDS? Crack? Come on. Hell, we wiped out an entire continent of Indians. We could do at *least* as good a job as the Nazis did. This is an insult to the can-do spirit of America.

March 20, 2008 7:46 PM

ryanmacd said:

I'm sorry. I find the homophobic hatred spewed onto the pews every single damn Sunday all across the sanctimonious South much more offensive than any of this. Fact is, we DO live in a country that condones hate. That denies civil rights to its citizens and, just as they used their Bible to tell the slave what was their place, piously instructs those citizens that they are unnatural and subhuman and simply cannot have the same rights as others.

The Rev. Wrights of this country did not rush us into a war that has killed hundreds of thousands and will cost us trillions.

We will spare no expense to kill brown persons in the Middle East.

But we are too cheap to provide health care to our citizens.

So, you're telling me he's WRONG? Hardly.

March 20, 2008 10:13 PM

nturner said:

If the superdelegates and the leadership of the Democratic Party have any sense they will push for new primaries in Florida and Michigan.  Why?  Well, it's now clear that Obama cannot win a general election.  Having said that, I readily admit that many Obama supporters will think Hillary 'stole' the election if superdelegates actually do what they were intended to do, which is to use their judgment to pick the best/most electable candidate.  Given this very real concern, Democratic leadership should WANT more opportunities to demonstrate Obama's overwhelming electoral weaknesses.  If he gets defeated handily in Pennsylvania, then goes on to loose in Florida and Michigan, then the stark claim that he was 'robbed' will be less persausive.  

Of course, I also believe there should be new primaries because I, quite frankly, think that's the only morally defensible thing to do in a democracy.  Notwithstanding all of that, we should all realize the tactical benefits of new primaries in keeping our party from tearing itself apart.

My question to Obama supporters (and I'm being completely serious here) is this:  If Hillary were to win Pennsylvania, Florida, Michigan, West Virginia, Kentucky, Indiana, and even North Carolina.... will you folks concede that something happened which demonstrates that Obama is no longer electable?  Shouldn't this matter to superdelegates?  Shouldn't it matter even to those of you who support Obama but who want Democrats to win nonetheless?

March 20, 2008 11:00 PM

benbo451 said:

"My question to Obama supporters (and I'm being completely serious here) is this:  If Hillary were to win Pennsylvania, Florida, Michigan, West Virginia, Kentucky, Indiana, and even North Carolina.... will you folks concede that something happened which demonstrates that Obama is no longer electable?  Shouldn't this matter to superdelegates?  Shouldn't it matter even to those of you who support Obama but who want Democrats to win nonetheless?"

I fervently disagree. The polls comparing McCain to the 2 Dems now are meaningless. The party in power (at this point Republicans) have virtually no chance of winning a general election with the economy in the tank, an unpopular war, and a candidate with no plan to do anything significantly different from his predecessor on those issues. Either Dem will win in a landslide, even with a mediocre campaign strategy. Remember "It's the economy, stupid"?

March 20, 2008 11:24 PM

mollysimon said:

Irony:  "It's the anti-semitic thread in apocalyptic black thinking that Obama needed to confront, because that's where the at least historically legitimate suspicion that whites are out to get you shades into a belief that a big role is being played in that conspiracy by the very people -- Jews, specifically -- whom whites were ALSO out to get until relatively recently."  Exactly.  

By the way, has anybody else here wondered whether Obama's standing by Wright had some psychological underpinnings?  O. had a dad who essentially abandoned him, so he finds another father-figure-who's also far from ideal.  That's the kind of motive that makes for self-destructive behavior.  And believe me, I know psychoanalyzing from afar is a dangerous and sometimes stupid thing, but still.  Because despite how much I still support Obama, his continued association with Wright is driving me nuts.  I can't wrap my head around it.  Is there any other explanation for how O. could have been so blind?  I'm not buying the other suppositions--that he loves Wright despite flaw.  You don't stay with a pastor like this because, if you're Barack, you'd see how disastrous this could be for your campaign.  

Well, maybe like all of us, he's imperfect.  

nturner:  If you're talking about tearing the Democratic party apart, then demand Hillary get the fuck out of the race.  She stands no chance at this point.  Do we really need to see her sue to get her MI/FLA votes counted?  What would this do to the Dems?  

March 20, 2008 11:56 PM

asnevitt said:

mollysimon, I don't see why it's so difficult to understand how Obama can stand by his pastor. We all know people that can offer a lot of light and then have their darkness, too. Life and relationships are complex. Why the need to pathologize? Catholics who use birth control and believe in the right to abortion maintain strong ties to their priests. I'm sure there are plenty of people in the South who cringe through sermons that include racist or anti-gay or anti-Muslim rhetoric without denouncing their ministers or shunning them once they've made it to their respective "big time". Also, Wright is retired now. I read somewhere (would have to research it) that Obama kind of pushed him out. Gently I'm sure.

Crowley, how do you know that Obama never did express his disdain about the HIV theory to Wright? It's a big assumption on your part. Have you been privy to the 20 years worth of conversations they've had?

Plus, how long ago did Wright make those statements? Were they made at a time when there was fervent suspicion? Did he ever correct himself? There seems to be an awful lot of willingness to condemn a man based on a few minutes worth of sound bites cherry-picked from a 35-year career.

And why are you perpetuating this story? If Obama has denounced Wright's words, and all of his actions demonstrate that he doesn't operate on the same assumptions or with the same level of anger, then why keep beating this horse?

March 21, 2008 12:29 AM

teplukhin2you said:

Unite the party, Do the right thing and nominate the only candidate who can beat McCain and who appeals to both the left and DLC wings of the party. Superdelegates, nominate Gore.

March 21, 2008 12:34 AM

ironyroad said:

cjax71:  "Why is it considered brave to talk about the pathological aspects of black culture, in fact, you insist that Barack confront conspiratorial ideas in the black community, but somehow talking about the historical pathologies of wealthy white culture is beyond the pale, a slippery slope to anti-semitism and holocaust denial?"

A fair point -- I was taking aim at the broader Wright-Farrakhan spectrum and I should have made it clear that Wright didn't himself, as far as I know, come out with that particular line (although his anti-Israeli bias seems to be kinda peculiar -- what's Israel got to do with the the pastoral mission on Chicago's South Side?).

And thus I agree with you in a lot of respects and see a great deal of historical pathologies and slippery slopes in other American cultures, including the white USA! USA! chorus of yahoos who are always on hand to prevent thinking from gaining any purchase -- and those pathologies and slopes often end up in antisemism and the dark cellar of American xenophobia.

Nevertheless, that said, Barack Obama could have done everyone a favor by confronting that pathology among African-Americans.  We've had enough of presidents who reject the reality-based universe.  It would be nice to have one who is prepared to call fantasy by its name.

March 21, 2008 12:51 AM

woland said:

Sorry about stating more than half of black Americans believe the AIDS conspiracy myth.  I was wrong about that.  It is less than half but still a significant percentage.  I believe Crowley sites the polls on this on another blog link.

Cjax71 you are absolutely correct about the double standard.  I said the same thing basically in another post.

ironyroad you are wrong about Obama not calling blacks on their fantasies.  He did in his speech when he talks about blacks having to stop looking outward for the boogyman and start looking inward.  I guess he just didn't rail enough against them as you would have liked.  But Obama cannot do the full on Sista Soulja attack like Bill because unlike Bill, Obama is part of the "tribe" and therefore cannot pile on a fellow tribe member like an outsider can without losing face within the tribe.  Blacks don't like it when blacks pile on other blacks to curry favor with whites.  Get this straight people.  

March 21, 2008 8:52 AM

fougasseu said:

The nagging question for me in the Wright controversy is the peculiar role of Jodi Kantor and The New York Times in aggressively framing the relationship of Wright and Obama as somehow revealing of Obama's true character.

Throughout the blogosphere Sean Hannity has been pointed to as the one who "broke" the Wright story. But the facts don't quite sync up: Kantor and the NYT's seem to have had an agenda. The recent letter from Wright to Kantor is troubling, and the timeline of NYT's coverage would indicate this was more of a classic Clinton camp "hit" than the work of FOX. Or, as we've seen w/ the teaming up of Limbaugh/Hillary, another indication that the Clintons and FOX may partnering.

It would be informative to hear from Jodi Kantor and her editor. (Shades of Judith Miller, eh?)

March 21, 2008 10:09 AM

fougasseu said:

The nagging question for me in the Wright controversy is the peculiar role of Jodi Kantor and The New York Times in aggressively framing the relationship of Wright and Obama as somehow revealing of Obama's true character.

Throughout the blogosphere Sean Hannity has been pointed to as the one who "broke" the Wright story. But the facts don't quite sync up: Kantor and the NYT's seem to have had an agenda. The recent letter from Wright to Kantor is troubling, and the timeline of NYT's coverage would indicate this was more of a classic Clinton camp "hit" than the work of FOX. Or, as we've seen w/ the teaming up of Limbaugh/Hillary, another indication that the Clintons and FOX may partnering.

It would be informative to hear from Jodi Kantor and her editor. (Shades of Judith Miller, eh?)

March 21, 2008 10:10 AM

ironyroad said:

woland:  I wasn't asking him to "rail," I was simply hoping for a clearer rejection of paranoid and provincial conspiracy thinking on all sides, including among blacks.  That has nothing to do with double-standards, and is in fact opposed to them.  As far as "tribes" and currying favor go, I'd point out that Barack Obama -- whom I support and admire -- wants to be president.  So get *this* straight:  it's more than likely that he's going to have to do some piling at some point, as this election moves toward November.

Remember, racist southern whites never liked people who pile on other racist southern whites in order to curry favor with the rest of the country.  Tribal thinking is not a good signpost to the future.

March 21, 2008 1:00 PM

weisbardaj said:

As a scholar of bioethics and law, I am sorry to report that notions of a "white conspiracy" to unleash AIDS on the black community are extremely widespread among African-Americans (and some Africans as well). Such accusations find a ready audience in light of the awful history of abuse of black subjects and patients by medical researchers and physicians. Tuskegee is, of course, the most well-known instance, but it is far from the only one. Rev. Wright's image of "chickens coming home to roost" is all too appropriate in this context; African-Americans have abundant historical reason to be suspicious of the medical establishment.

There are a number of variants of the AIDS conspiracy in circulation. Some of them--including use of African primates for testing polio vaccines decades ago--have a certain surface plausibility, although the scientific community finds little evidence to support them. But it is not clear to me that these theories are more lacking in evidence than assertions that autism results from mercury-based compounds in various vaccines--which is not race-related and is far less subject to popular ridicule. And blacks have a lot more reason to be suspicious than middle class parents of children with autism.

Let me be clear: I do not believe that HIV and AIDS are the result of a racist conspiracy, and I have nothing positive to say about the perpetuation  of this idea by Rev. Wright, or by anyone else. It feeds suspicion and hatred, and makes no contribution to efforts to control this epidemic. (I understand that Rev. Wright and his Church have been extremely active in responding more positively to the challenges of AIDS in the black community and beyond. I am personally "challenged" to understand how these pieces fit together.)

I do believe that this episode more generally illuminates the vast gulf in understanding between white and minority communities, and the ignorance among many whites  as to the mores of many black churches. This AIDS business is perhaps the least understandable element overall.

There has been no better effort to understand and explain the complexities of these issues to a broad public than Obama's speech on race in America. The continuing pounding he is taking on his relation with Rev Wright bespeaks bad faith and an unwillingness to engage in civilized adult discourse.

March 21, 2008 8:38 PM