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COLUMNISTS
TODAY'S STORIES
09.02.2008
Hillary May Have the Edge in Maine

A lot of us in the press, including me, have looked at Maine on the primary calendar, noticed it was a caucus state, and basically put it in the Obama column as a result.

Now it's true that caucus states tend to reward the extensive organization that Obama excels at. On the other hand, there are a lot of white working-class people in Maine--and, judging from the results of New Hampshire and Massachusetts (look at "high school graduates" and voters making under $50,000), Obama seems to have problems with the New England version of this demographic. (Even in Connecticut, which Obama won, Hillary killed him among "high school graduates"--55-41--though he returned the favor among college graduates.) Whether or not Barry Bonds's diagnosis of the situtation is apt, I can't say. But what's clear is that the terrain isn't super-favorable for him tomorrow.

This piece in today's Washington Post kind of underscores that point. The piece notes that "Clinton is expected to be competitive tomorrow in Maine--the winner of the New Hampshire primary almost always is," and notes that the Obama campaign itself isn't so high on its prospects there:

An internal analysis by the campaign lays out one scenario for the next phase of the battle, in which Clinton would win Texas, Ohio and Pennsylvania, both in popular votes and delegates, along with five other places: Maine, Kentucky, West Virginia, Rhode Island and Puerto Rico

It could be an exercise in expectations-setting, of course. But it wouldn't shock me if this turned out to be right.

Update: Yeah, Maine looks pretty good for Hillary. In the 2004 general election, about 60 percent of Maine voters made less than $50,000 per year. By comparison, only about one-third of New Hampshire voters made less than $50,000. In both cases, Bush won 44 percent of that group, so we're looking at a lot more (almost twice the proportion of) working class Dems in Maine...

--Noam Scheiber 

Posted: Saturday, February 09, 2008 1:27 PM with 25 comment(s)

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nlaverty4 said:

I wouldn't be too bullish on Hillary's prospects in Maine. Being a Mainer who comes from one of the biggest working class cities (Lewiston), I can tell you that there is a decent amount of enthusiasm for Obama even there. My Mom, a former Republican who absentee voted for Obama (along with my two sisters, but that was more predictable), works with a number of white-high-school-grad-working-class-Dems who seem to tip more in Barack's favor.

In the least, he should do well in both the Portland area and the Bangor area. Rural Mainers are harder to tag, since they tend to be red meat conservatives, but then again, Obama seems to be able to appeal to those crowds a bit better.

But please, don't lump us in with New Hampshire or Bay staters. That's a mortal insult to a helluva lot of us.

February 9, 2008 2:47 PM

jonmhillier said:

I agree, that Obama has a lot of energy here in Maine.  I just got back from the Obama rally in Bangor.  I got there an hour early...and couldn't get in the door, the 6,000 seats had filled up already, so around  1500 of us waited outside where Obama gave us a short version of his speech before he went into the auditorium.  A number of the people in the crowd had been at the Clinton rally this morning and said this blew it away.

That being said I'm not completely optimistic.  Working class voters aside (and there are a lot of us!) Maine has a large elderly population percentage wise.  I think we may even have the oldest average age in the country and I see these voters going heavily for Clinton.  Just to muddy the waters further the weather says 3-5 inches of snow tomorrow... who does that help/hurt?

nlaverty4 is right.  We Mainers seceded from Mass and don't really get along with the Granite State!

February 9, 2008 5:54 PM

drdannyu said:

nlaverty, how did your mom vote absentee?  I was told by the registrar in my town that you can't vote absentee for the caucus, which bums me out, since I can't make it.

Of the people I've talked with, most seem to be tipping toward Obama.  I heard that Hillary's event in Lewiston was very enthusiastic, but this was from an obvious HIllary supporter (in the grocery store, no less).  And we've gotten three calls from Obama, and one from Hillary.

i would say that Portland is more likely to go for Obama, but I wouldn't be surprised if the state as a whole went for Hillary.  Plus, as was mentioned, we're expecting a bad storm, so we'll see.

February 9, 2008 6:34 PM

nlaverty4 said:

drdan,

I actually have no idea how she absentee voted. I'm not actually in state right now (I'm in Mass for grad school), and the last time I called, she swore up and down that they were doing absentee balloting in Lewiston. I'll have to ask what exactly she did next time I talk to her.

February 9, 2008 6:39 PM

virginiacentrist said:

Morons for Hillary!

February 9, 2008 8:05 PM

drdannyu said:

Blow it out your ass, virginia.  The people I know who support HIllary are probably smarter than you are (among them my father, who holds over two dozen patents, and the father of my best friend, who's a remarkably successful attorney), and are able to formulate arguments without resorting to childish insults.  Your posts, which once upon a time were informative and interesting, have descended in quality to the more annoying level of Daily Kos.

February 9, 2008 9:07 PM

epicciuto said:

Virginiacentrist, I am a certified Obamaton and I totally agree with DrDan here. Your posts used to be funny and interesting. Now you've turned into pcostello for Obama. You are not responding to anything anyone on this thread said, plenty of intelligent people support Hillary, there are reasons to support Hillary (even if I don't find them persuasive), etc.

February 9, 2008 9:51 PM

primwallflow said:

I surprised at your post, Noam, because I thought the CW was that Hillary WAS favored to win Maine. Certainly, that's the assumption that even the Obama campaign itself made on its now-famous delegate spreadsheet. She has the endorsements of most state politicians, and of course she won nearby NH. Then again, I live all the way on the left coast, so maybe I'm just not plugged into enough DC conversations.

The one thing working in Obama's favor is that Maine voters will wake up tomorrow to read that Obama swept a diverse array of states on Saturday: Washington, Nebraska, and Louisiana. So that might give him a little bounce to close the margin. But I still fully expect Hillary to win there.

February 9, 2008 10:35 PM

Ghost in the Machine said:

In the Caribbean, South, Midwest, and West, Senator Obama goes four for four, winning Nebraska (68% to 32%), Washington...

February 9, 2008 11:34 PM

huntlib said:

VACentrist. Really, you know, so simplistic.

More like: Sadly-Deluded-Individuals-Who-Want-To-Hand-The-Democratic-Party-Over-To-A-

Gaffe-Prone-Tone-Deaf-Political-Legatee-Who-Will-Destroy-The-Democratic-Party's-

Fragile-Majority-And-Give-The-GOP-Eight-More-Years-Of-Ruinous-Hegemony for Hillary.

February 10, 2008 12:16 AM

TULLIUS said:

A modest suggestion to avoid these guttural scraps would be that we try to focus on substance. Even the comments which purport to equate income-level and college completion with support for one or another of the candidates are off the mark. If college-completion is the determinant what of a Latino (said to be for Sen. Clinton) who has completed graduate school. Which trumps?

This becomes a checkerboard, Balkanized method of dealing with our electorate and elections and even for thinking about them--let alone a good approach for winning elections. The first thing needed is a deeper respect for those with whom we disagree. The next thing needed is a recognition that we are engaged not in a free-for-all among these scraps of ethnic or socio-economic compartments of humanity but rather a quest for governing. What is our strategy for governing?

Republicanism has failed after eight years. And why? Because it has produced no strategy for governance other than tax cuts at home and unilateral bluster abroad. Democratic governance should call for opportunity at home and a more englightened foreign & military policy abroad. The hurling of insults either at Clinton or Obama supporters is counter productive and sends the message to the electorate that we are a rabble.

There are huge problems facing America: a declining economy, a worsening environment, two wars badly fought, the disintegration of Pakistan and rebuilding of jihadist training camps, lack of health insurance, job loss, poor preparedness for the next disaster.

February 10, 2008 8:35 AM

virginiacentrist said:

Hey I'm just looking at the numbers! And they pretty much uniformly say that the less education you have, the more likely you are to support HRC.

That's why Obama has such an advantage in caucuses. They're too complicated for simple folk.

February 10, 2008 11:40 AM

virginiacentrist said:

I'll add this -

With the less intelligent white folks trending towards Hillary, you wonder whether some of these folks believe that Obama is a Muslim...or worse (a black person!!!).

February 10, 2008 11:45 AM

virginiacentrist said:

(continuing the conversation with myself)

Obama may need to adopt more of John Edwards' low brow populism to appeal to these angry white unwashed masses and peel some HRC supporters away.

February 10, 2008 11:48 AM

virginiacentrist said:

PS: (I'll try to tone it down a bit - points taken).

February 10, 2008 11:57 AM

boneill said:

Well, I only really know one person in Maine- DrDan.  And he was in favor of Obama, but then was trending toward Hillary.  So I think it will be closer than Obama-ites want to believe, but our guy will still take it.  

Of course, DrDan isn't voting- on call, I presume?- so it looks as if it will be 0-0.  But nlaverty's mom voted for Obama absentee, so I am revising my predictions and making it 1-0 in favor of Barack!  WE HAVE A PROJECTION!!!

This is at least as accurate as all the other polls have been.  Call me, Mr Zogby!

February 10, 2008 12:25 PM

blackton said:

isn't epic in Maine too? and isn't she voting for Obama, or is the freshly minted baby keeping her at home?

February 10, 2008 12:59 PM

nlaverty4 said:

You forgot my sister, boneill. That makes it 2-0 and a clear runaway.

DrDan, turns out you can (or more accurately could) vote absentee in the Maine caucus: www.mainedems.org/2008AbsenteeRequestForm.aspx

It could have been 3-0!

February 10, 2008 1:12 PM

drdannyu said:

I ended up getting out of my commitment long enough to caucus for Obama.  (My partner, who caucused for Hillary, is none too pleased with me.)  Our PACKED caucus site went about 2-1 for Obama.  It was really hard to pick, because I sincerely support both candidates.  There were just too many things that I found problematic for Hillary for me to support her, though I generally prefer her health care policy.

And I am really steamed to have heard that I could have caucused absentee (which I found out at our precinct; I plan to complain with the registrars).  It would have made for a less stressful afternoon.

And sadly, epic doesn't live in Maine.  I will leave it to her to disclose her location.

February 10, 2008 2:47 PM

johnclm said:

I just back from the caucus in Westbrook, a suburb of Portland, Maine. Turnout was so heavy (despite the snow) that the start of caucus  was delayed for thirty minutes to allow everyone to register. Westbrook is historically a blue-collar mill town and it went for Obama, 59%-41%.

An example of the excitement of this race in Maine (not to mention Westbrook's preference for Democrats) is the fact that 430 Democrats participated in today's caucus, whereas only 78 Republicans participated in that party's caucus a couple weeks ago.

John

February 10, 2008 6:50 PM

johnclm said:

Also, to answer the questions concerning absentee ballots in the Maine caucuses: The state's Democratic party set a deadline for submission (I think it was February 6, but I'm not positive) and distributed the filled-out ballots to the respective towns and cities to be counted on caucus day. In Westbrook, the absentees were tallied after the caucusing was done, and the total was added to the earlier results. It made the process more democratic, but also added some administrative headaches.

John

February 10, 2008 6:55 PM

JosephCuomo said:

AP just called Maine for Obama (at 6:59pm):

hosted.ap.org/.../MAINE_CAUCUSES

February 10, 2008 7:03 PM

miceelf said:

Well, it looks like Obama has Maine, and not even close. He gets (per MSNBC) 15 delegates to Clinton's 9.

I'll point out, as well, that the Obama  campaign had predicted in their internal memos that they were going to be losing Maine in a close contest.

February 10, 2008 7:06 PM

The Stump said:

CNN has just called it , and it looks like he's going to win by a hefty margin. It would have been

February 10, 2008 7:09 PM

The Stump said:

I dialed into that Clinton conference call this afternoon and was left absolutely speechless by some

February 11, 2008 6:35 PM