All that's missing in this story is some connection to Marc Rich.  Do we really want Bill Clinton in the White House again - ethical blind spots and all, in an undefined, powerful role?

What do they want to buy from him and how much are they willing to pay?

Uranium mining rights, and $131 million dollars.  Eek.

Yeah, but the real story is Rezko. Riight.

Wow. And it said in the beginning he was planning on continuing to work the Clinton Foundation after his wife was elected. So does this mean he is going to leverage his greater position into more lucrative ways to undermine the United States of American? I mean seriously.

And, Noam, what do you think about Obama entering into joint ownership of his personal home, to Obama's personal benefit of about a million dollars, through a sham real estate transaction with a man now indicted for influence peddling and sham real estate transactions? This obviously is ta gift o Obama persoanlly.

And why did Michele's salary at a Chicago non-profit hospital go from $100,000 to $300,000 when her husband became a Senator? Did her duties change? Was this her contribution to health care policy?

Wow is right.  

Why does the NYT hate women so much?

Could you guys sum this scandal for me? I tried to read that article, but my ADD made me switch back to thesuperficial.com...

LOL- So this is what- number 257 of the Clinton money/fundraiser scandals, and we hear about Rezko as if there was anything wrong, and now- horror of horrors, Michelle Obama got a raise!!!! Egads!!!!

She got a raise because she was working for about 1/3 the going rate for professionals in that position with her experience/education in the first place - she was commited to the community (imagine that) and left her lucrative law firm work to take it.

When Obama announced, they begged her not to quit, she's been incredible at the job. She agreed and does actually still work there, she's on conf calls every morning.

Nice try pcostello - the fact is you aren't going to pin corruption on Michelle Obama no matter how hard you try, it's absurd.  And trying to compare her in any way to the Clintons in this way says zero about Michelle Obama.

PS - Do you even know what her job is pcostello?  Are you inferring the insurance companies or the hospital or whoever your nefarious lurkers are trying to buy her or something?  

I mean, what is your point?  Her job is community outreach, not exactly scintillating, profit-driven stuff.  It's one thing to be pro-Hillary, but it's another to heap lies all over people just  to do so - you just make Obama's and all the other people sick of the Clinton's point for them - keep it up actually.

Isn't the real scandal here not that Clinton is (again) engaged in foreign influence-peddling, but that he (again) lied about it until someone could prove the truth? Have we not had enough of that kind of reflexive, possibly pathological fibbing from George W. Bush?

And here's the thing. If the work Clinton was doing was both legal and honorable, why would he lie about it? The _fact_ that Clinton lied about it forces any reasonable person to assume that Clinton's work in this instance was corrupt, whether "merely" on a moral level, or possibly also on a criminal level.

Terrible irony may be at work. The criminal investigations that damaged the Bill Clinton presidency and led to his impeachment all originated with Hillary's shady dealings prior to the White House or her behavior as a high-profile presidential spouse. Looks like Bill may be ready to repay the favor.

Folks -

Calm down. This thing is WAYYYYYYY too complicated to understand. If the cable news shows cover it, we' (Obama supporters) be lucky. But I doubt the anchors understand either.

*siiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiigh*

I think Hillary Clinton is a very smart, very capable woman who I wish the best for, although I do find her inability to defend progressive values in the Senate tough to overlook and her communication techniques make it tough for me to know what she really believes in. I just prefer to have Obama be our nominee. That's IT.

I'm not going to heap garbage and innuendo, I don't even care if Bill Clinton did something goofy and hard to understand that yet again bugged the NYT, he's a brilliant man with flaws and I think everyone knows that.  

The Obama campaign has never once mentioned Monica, Kathleen and the rest of the gang and have every right to.  They are not heaping anywhere near the garbage they could. I'm sick of the whole dynamic as are most people. Enough.

Wandreycer1

Gonna have to second you on this one. You can just plug the Job title into TalentZoo to see  that's the case. O' and please take anything courtesy of Carol Marin with a rather large grain of salt. Here in Chicago she's best known for having destroyed an innocent man's life with false allegations of terrorist connections.

O' and The Chicago Tribune endorsed Bush in the general last time for christs sake -- its a conservative publication. Does anyone really think they wouldn't jump on it if there were a serious story here?  

I agree with virginiacentrist, as usual. This is one of those scandals that will produce more MEGO than outrage. Unless there's sex or a grainy B&W video of someone taking a sack of cash, the ramifications of this are going to be too difficult to sum up for the nightly news. (Even the Times needed 4 web pages to explain it.)

This is why the Clintons have been pushing the Rezko stuff-- they want to preemptively neutralize their own scandals, like this, that will inevitably erupt.

I think most of us know that Bill Clinton (and, by implication, Hillary Clinton) was not overly burdened by ethical feelings. We gladly overlooked the personal stuff, for the most part, because the governance was so much better than the republican alternatives. But the personal stuff occasionally interfered with policy, and harmed people.

I don't care a whit about the Lewinsky thing or the various other alleged affairs. I even have trouble getting worked up about the financial corruption (except when the Hillary camp tries to flog the Rezko story). But there were a few things that were pretty distasteful, starting (for me) with the execution of the mentally handicapped guy and the complete throwing over of Lani Guinier. The way the current campaign has been run is small potatoes next to this, but it leaves a similarly bad taste in the mouth.

With you on this, Wandrey.  Hoping for him, but will vote for her if it comes down to it.

You've got to hand it to pccostello, who's always ready with a Rezko comment regardless of the post's topic. Sure, it's slimy, annoying and out of touch. But it's persistent, damn it. Repeat it enough and someone will believe it.

How wealthy are the Clinton's? Does anyone know? How many millions will it take before they are satisfied? For the price of 131 million Bill has sold out the lives of thousands of mine workers, just so he can be sure to travel on his own luxury plane as he tries to shake down other people to finance his "charity"

What would have been nice is if that 131 million dollars actually went to improving the lives of the mine workers, if that had been the case I would say Bill going would have been a good thing. And, of course, this 131 million was just a share of the profits to be met, whoopie, rape 3rd world countries of their resources, share the wealth with the dictator, and have a former American President give his blessing.

pccostello, of course, can't even discuss this case on its merits. Bill could take a huge steaming dump on the dining room table and pc would complain about the faint odor that Obama left after he used the bathroom.

Wandrey and Dan, I hear you and agree. Although I will say that it's a sad state we're all in when multi-million dollar inflence peddling is just yet another of many many scandals that we've come to expect. That's not necessarily a dis on the Clintons (although I do think they are indeed ethically challenged, which is part of why I am as pro-Obama as I am), just a general statement about things.

Gail Collins had a good point today -  that with Hillary, no one is going to be disappointed by lofty, needy projections towards a nominee (Obama) being crushed by the inevitable failings that come out. Humans are like that - flawed and human.  It's hard to imagine our feelings being crushed by Hillary.

If Obama had enough time in public life, who knows: maybe he'd have a Lani Guiner episode under his belt or worse, rather than just Rezko and kindergarden essays.

That's why he was smart to run now, before more time in the business "leached all the hope out of him."

My summary:

Guy gets rich in metals, gets rich in movies.  Decides he has so much money, he'll do some philanthropy or something.  Meets a former president at a fund raiser gala/celebrity smash or something.  Strikes up a friendship with Former President.

Later on, Guy decides to get back into mining, so he takes a trip to Kazakhstan with his friend, Former President.  Officially, the trip is to oversee Former President's charitable work in the region.  Somehow, Guy meets with Kazakh dictator, who gets praise lavished upon him by Former President.  Guy secures mining rights, makes a crap-ton of cash.

So, even richer, Guy decides to make a large, secret donation to his friend Former President's foundation.  Former President and Guy meet with Kazakh official to discuss lobbying work or something.  Although no laws were broken, both Guy and Former President deny the meeting ever took place, until they have no choice to admit it did.

I think if we can throw in some sort of love interest, as well as a terrorist plot/secret society angle, this scandal will sell, sell, sell!  I, of course, reserve all film and TV rights.

List Of People Who Hate Women:

1) New York Times

2) Wandrey

3) Kazakhs*

Who else????/

*May be true

You know, the money changing hands, the quid propquo, doesn't bother me too much (slimy but private business).  The part where he submarines US foreign policy and supports a brutal dictator for a umar rights position really makes me say we cannot let that man near the white house again?

"Mr. Nazarbayev walked away from the table with a propaganda coup, after Mr. Clinton expressed enthusiastic support for the Kazakh leader’s bid to head an international organization that monitors elections and supports democracy. Mr. Clinton’s public declaration undercut both American foreign policy and sharp criticism of Kazakhstan’s poor human rights record by, among others, Mr. Clinton’s wife, Senator Hillary Rodham Clinton of New York."

Say anything, change nothing.

I think Borat showed us how Kazakhs feel about women.

Toni Morrison hates women, too, it seems.

BC: You left out "Former prez publically supports brutal dictator for human rights position, despite critisism from the Junior Senator from NY."

For readers who don't know who Carol Marin is, she is the political reporter for the Chicago Sun-Times who has been following the Rezko-Obama story for the past 10 months.

Following are links to her Obama-Rezko story in yesterday's paper, explaining why the story is not going to go away,. Then there is a link to a story all the way way back in April detailing Obama's evasiveness and deceptions in response to questions about his multiple links to Rezko.

www.suntimes.com/.../766215,CST-EDT-carol30.article

www.suntimes.com/.../356207,CST-EDT-carol25.article

Following is some of yesterday's Chicago Sun-Times article:

REZKO STAIN TARS GOV AND OBAMA

January 30, 2008

BY CAROL MARIN Sun-Times Columnist

Tony Rezko is a story that is just not going away. This was made abundantly clear Tuesday night when Sen. Barack Obama announced that his U.S. Senate campaign is now returning almost double the money it had already given to charity from its former, now-indicted fund-raiser, Tony Rezko. The grand total of returned cash now stands at about $150,000.

There is no suggestion that the Democratic presidential contender is connected to the kind of illegal dealings for which Rezko will stand trial next month. But his judgment with regard to Rezko is distinctly in question.

Obama has admitted it was "boneheaded" to enter into a land deal with Rezko that allowed the senator and his wife to buy a $1.65 million mansion on the same day Rezko's wife bought the lot next door. But there are a host of unanswered questions. Here are just a few:

• • Exactly how were the terms and timing arrived at that allowed Obama to buy the house at a $300,000 discount, while Mrs. Rezko paid full price?

• • Given that Rezko was already publicly known to be under investigation, what persuaded Obama to still deal with him?

• • When did Obama realize that Rezko, a low-income housing developer, had 11 failed properties in Obama's state Senate district alone? Or that Rezko was defaulting on taxpayer-funded deals at the same time he was still an Obama political benefactor?

• • Was there, at the least, the appearance of a conflict of interest between Obama's legal work for low-income Rezco-connected developers and Obama's responsibilities as a state senator?

Caroline Kennedy--hates women

Ted Kennedy--hates women

Claire McCaskill--hates women

Kathleen Sebelius--hates women

New York Post--hates women (alright, that one may be true)

dbhuff, right on.  It might not be illegal or even horribly unethical- it is typical Clinton, loving being at the nexus of money and influence (perhaps somewhat understandable from someone who grew up so poor).  But this-

The publicly stated reason for the visit was to announce a Clinton Foundation agreement that enabled the government to buy discounted AIDS drugs. But during a news conference, Mr. Clinton wandered into delicate territory by commending Mr. Nazarbayev for “opening up the social and political life of your country.”

In a statement Kazakhstan would highlight in news releases, Mr. Clinton declared that he hoped it would achieve a top objective: leading the Organization for Security and Cooperation in Europe, which would confer legitimacy on Mr. Nazarbayev’s government.

“I think it’s time for that to happen, it’s an important step, and I’m glad you’re willing to undertake it,” Mr. Clinton said.

I mean, Bill is no dummy.  He knows goddam well that is a goddam lie.  But anything to make a deal, to make some green, right?   I am so sick of it.

"There is no suggestion that the Democratic presidential contender is connected to the kind of illegal dealings for which Rezko will stand trial next month."

Thanks for posting this PC!!! I am glad you've come around.

Now, let's talk about brutal dictators, shall we?

Why Hillary runs for Presidents? They say in my country that giving women vote is like monkey flying plane. Professor Yamatov prove that woman's brain is size of squirrel.

Miceelf:

Brutal dictators? Pointless wars? Who cares! Obama did something confusing with his house one time with this guy whose name no one can spell!

boneill -- Don't forget Oprah. She hates women, too.

I hear Jimmy Carter hates women ...

Borat-Gate!

Blackton, as much as you made me laugh so hard I almost fell of my chair - accusing Bill Clinton of personal money mongering is just not fair.  

The guy made 25K - 30K a year until his first year in the White House - a Yale educated Rhodes scholar. Hillary supported them their whole life in Arkansas, he never had a red cent until he got out of office.  

He's many many things, but he is not greedy (for personal money anyway).  I don't begrudge the guy socking the money away finally when he left office, he's entitled.  It's not like he had a group of wealthy buddies who bought him a mansion when he left office like Reagan or family dough waiting ala Bush.  The free flights on private planes only ellicit envy in me, not anger.  He's the ex-Pres, let him fly on the danged planes.  

Do I wish it wasn't with shady characters every now and then, yes - but I've longed resigned myself to the yin/yang that is Bill Clinton.

He'll grub with the best of them for campaign dollars, Clinton library dollars and the like, but if we don't like that as a nation, then we'd best vote in campaign finance reform.  Otherwise, a guy with few funds (unlike Romney, Bush, etc) has had few options since the explosion of money in politics.  I'd love to see this change, but even the Clintons have said they can't lay down their arms in the middle of the battle.  It's a Catch-22.

Leave old Bill alone with this one I say.

I only hate women named Rezko, Renco, Recko - oh never mind.

pccostello,

The story "isn't going away" because it sells papers. And by sells papers, I mean you and the Clinton campaign buy up every copy and hand it out on street corners desperately trying to get someone to give a shit.  

Do you realize how insane you look when you post a screed about Obama dealing with a sketchy character to buy a house for his family to live in on a thread alleging the former President of the United States used his influence with the head of another country to get his friend an uranium mining deal in exchange for a $31 million donation to his foundation.

Talk about comparing apples to radioactive 10-megaton oranges.

come on, lay off poor Pccostello, wandering around at home in pajamas muttering Rezco. Address this issue PC for once. Explain it away if you can.

vacentrist, too funny. But, true story if off thread, nearby where I live in Oaxaca the federal government restored the Zapotecos here their tribal rights thinking it was a way to redress old wrongs. Of course, when the Zapotecos got these rights (I am talking about in very rural areas) they promptly stripped women of their right to vote. Because, and I quote, "women are not citizens"

wandrey, Bill can make as much as he wants from his books, or speeches, I don't care. But I have seen the lives of miners in China up close, it is miserable and horribly degrading. I gotta imagine the same is true in Kazahkstan. I also know that these miners are doomed to start, but to knowingly ally himself with a man who would profit off of their misery is just evil.

I am a poor person, but I could have become rich in China, since I speak Chinese I was approached years ago by a number of factory owners looking for an entry into the US market. But after seeing the conditions of the factories and the lives of the workers I said no thanks. I am literally certifiably poor but I refused to take such money. I am not bragging, I am sure the vast majority of the posters here would have done the same. Just because Bill was a former President doesn't absolve him of basic decency, in fact, it demands he go beyond it.

This just in -- Susan Sarandon may hate women:

www.time.com/.../0,8599,1708248,00.html

That New York Times piece which Noam alluded to earlier about Bill Clinton helping broker a shady mining

Again, everything posted by The Plank is cut off...

Now, let's be fair here: Jimmy Carter only hates women in his heart.

hi guys.

if i understand the times piece correctly, bill conton helped a particualar mine operator to gain access to a political leader whom clinton also pressured to make some human rights reforms and then praised some small steps the dictator was taking in that direction. the mine operator then donated 30 million dollars to a foundation clinton started that fights aids internationally. bill is married to a candidate for president. are those the facts? bill made no personal profit from this work, but 30 million more went to international aids work.

not the same as jointly owning your home with someone under indictment for sham transactions and influence peddling.

but maybe i misunderstand something.

btw, the nytimes endorsed who?

Dude, you can't say "bill is married to a candidate for president" as if he is just another Presidential spouse.  Though it may not have been illegal, it was Clinton using his influence to undermine US policy to help a friend get a huge deal in exchange for something.  Maybe that something is noble, but it is still something that makes people feel nervous and queasy.  They love using their influence, love making rich and powerful friends and always help them out, no matter the morality of it.   And you know damn well he is going to be at the center of her admin, so don'tpretend he is just a husband (in the same thread where you bizarrely and baselessly try to smear Michelle Obama- you want to respond to how you were shot down, or just type "REZKO" another fifty times?)  

A lot of people don't want any more legal-but-chauncy Clinton money-deals.  And a lot of us really don't want another Republican president, and know that Marc Rich and all the Clinton money-loving is going to come up in the gens in a way that will make Rezko look like nothing.  

Meanwhile, in other news...

Hillary's claim that she spoke out about Wal-Mart's anti-union practices has gotten some critical attention from ABC News today. They say that for six years, from 1986 to 1992, she was silent.

abcnews.go.com/.../story

Do the words "fairy tale" come to mind?

pccostello, helping one other person profit off of slave labor is evil. and taking that money to finance his "charity" whose expenses finance his luxury plane and chance to mug and gloat in front of the cameras is almost as despicable as taking the money for himself. Have you no sense of shame at long last? In addition, I have seen the devastation that a company like Walmart lays waste to in china with my own eyes. All so the Walton family can offer a toaster for 25 cents cheaper than KMart.

Address this issue, I don't care about Obama or McCain or Romney in this thread. Address this goddamn issue for once. Is having a crony profit obscenely off of slave labor right or wrong?

You continued refusal to acknowledge basic concepts of right and wrong is starting to be beyond the pale.

And what the hell do you know about Kazakhstan? Do you even know where it is?

EricWitte -- Marc Rich is in Switzerland, in the metals trading business. He's involved, one way or another, in anything involving metals, FSU, and Clinton. Bet on it.

Kazakhstan + minerals = grand larceny, grand thuggery, sidewalks and Mercedes 600's splattered with the blood of _biznesmeny_.

As the Merrill Lynch bankers used to say re. doing deals with government leaders in Ukraine, Kazakhstan etc, "These guys are unbelievable. It's not enough to bribe them once. They _keep asking you for MORE bribes while you're negotiating the deal!"

Rezko v Kazakhstan Metals on the sleaze meter? No contest. Like comparing a SoHo jaywalker and a Brighton Beach hitman.

Oh, and this is just the beginning, folks. Let's hear about Bill's deals in that other favorite playground of the Russian/FSU mafiya: Dubai.

oh,

pccostello - one thing you learn from doing business in any of the FSU countries is, _stay the f*** away from precious metals and minerals_. In these criminalized states, these are probably the most criminalized sectors. Also the most dangerous.

I'm sorry but if you're doing deals with such people and you live to tell the tale, you're tainted, end of story.

Lest anyone say I am anti-capitalist, there are many American firms in China that treat their workers in an exemplary fashion. General Motors, M&M Mars, Intel, the big four accounting firms (long hours yes, but great pay), I could go on and on. And there are companies that are truly despicable, such as Walmart. Any guess which company Hillary sat on the board of.

To knowingly take part in a scheme that allows a crony to profit off of the slave labor of miners in exchange for a multimillion dollar payoff, for whatever reason beyond improving the lives of the slave laborers, is evil. To defend it is EVIL. If this is not EVIL then the word has no meaning.

Pccostello, if there is a God you will come back as a Kazakhi miner. Given the choice I would much rather live in a Rezco slum, because, you know, I can always move out. When I first graduated I lived in a Paterson slum building, the rent was cheap and when I got enough money I moved out. I don't think these miners have that opportunity.

Obama, while a sitting US Senator, picking up $1,000,000 of real estate for his current personal use from a person indicted for sham real estate transactions and influence peddling is nothing? Who knew?

Thanks for the great summary adamvaught - now I don't have to slog through that godforsaken article.  

Is there any mining enterprise anywhere that isn't simply horrible, exploitive and evil?  I can't think of a more regulalry despicable industry, whether in the US or otherwise.  Just last week there was a paragraph somewhere in page A21 or so of the NYT about 3000 people dying in some horrible mine accident (probably preventible with the slightest effort, natch) in China that day. It was a blip no one payed attention to.  No wonder you ran screaming Blackton, good for you.

Once a year or so we have some poor souls go down here in the US too, more lately of course, since Bush gutted their regulatory agency.  It's a disgraceful industry.

I want to hear Bill's response to this.  Yes, I know, he's probably going to tell appx 50% of the truth, but I still want to hear his response.  He's 50% terrific in my book, so hopefully there is 50% hope for this bizarre incident.  I don't expect more.

Actually, Marc Rich's company, Glencore, owns 99% of Kazzinc, a consolidation of formerly state-owned Kazakh zinc producers. Don't tell me that Nazarbayev doesn't have his fingers in that pie.

Do you have that sentence on your clipboard, pccostello?  Do you just ignore what anyone says and keep posting that?   Why don't you address what people have said?  Can you?  Can you begin to?

Not that you're responding to the rebuttals or facts surrounding them pcostello, but I think most people view this Rezco? (Renko? whatever) thing as nothing is because in *comparison* to the Clinton's amply documented record of corrupt/jailed contributors, self-dealing and sleaze (do you *really* want to go there?) over the course of the last 20 years as small potatoes.  

This hasn't "caught on" because no one cares. The fact is - no one cares because coming from Clinton and her and Bill's history, it sounds desperate and even pathetic.

People are sick of this kind of politics and you're just not getting it.  That's OK, you don't have to.

Nazarbayev makes the Saudis look like paragons of ethics. Bill knows this.

Actually, given his ethical retardation, maybe he doesn't. Scary thought.

pccostello uses "Rezko" like Giuliani used 9/11.

But...but...didn't you see The View? Obama won't shake Hillary's hand!

In seriousness, I do need to check out this Rezko story and I'm sure Obama's not perfect. But put me down with the other talkbackers on this...it's hard to imagine it comparing to the decades of Clinton scandals.

I'm just ignoring the Rezko related posts and responding to the other ones.

pccostello - not that I expect you to stop and reflect, but you give freedom of speech a bad name.

Rezko is a boy scout compared to Nazarbayev and the other characters that Marc Rich and Bill Clinton are hanging out with.

rozenson,

To paraphrase Joe Biden "pccostello only says three things: a noun, a verb, and Rezko."

And Wandrey, glad to help!

Insert Rez into Ko and cue porno music.

JackR, pccostello and thompsondavid are living a blissful life together, constantly talking past each other and completely happy with the voice of theirs droning on and on in their heads. I was missing old TD but luckily we have a wonderful new replacement. And for once no one can claim our views of this kind of wackiness is ideological.

so pccostello is now our new resident crazy aunt in the attic apartment.

actually, i have a lot of fun with this, and i am also getting a ton of real work done today to boot.

what i am trying to point out without insult or ad hominem is that clinton used this trip to raise 30 million to fight aids. on the other hand, Obama was buddying up with Rezko, at the same time that Rezko had 11 failed low-income properties  in Obama's state Senate district. During this same period, Rezko was also defaulting on taxpayer-funded low income housing developments. At the same time he was donating money to Obama. Taxpayers paid about $70 million dollars on these failed Rezko developments, but Rezko personally made about 7 million dollars. Some of that money no doubt paid for half of Obama's home. How do you reconcile these actions with the spin version of Obama?

pccostello, blood money is blood money, no matter where it goes afterward. Of course we insult you since you refuse to engage anyone on the issue. I am convinced you are a rabid Romney supporter here to stoke Hillary hatred.