TNR BLOGS

January 07, 2009 | 3:20 PM
January 07, 2009 | 3:12 PM
January 07, 2009 | 2:37 PM

January 07, 2009 | 12:20 PM
January 07, 2009 | 12:13 PM
January 07, 2009 | 9:41 AM

January 07, 2009 | 12:40 PM
January 04, 2009 | 8:54 PM
January 01, 2009 | 8:57 PM

July 26, 2008 | 2:24 PM
July 23, 2008 | 1:55 PM
July 17, 2008 | 3:56 PM

January 07, 2009 | 3:00 PM
January 07, 2009 | 1:51 PM
January 06, 2009 | 4:07 PM
COLUMNISTS
TODAY'S STORIES
26.11.2008
Beware of Engagement: It More Likely To End in Funerals Than in a Wedding

Martin Kramer is one of America's great scholars on Arab and Islamic affairs.  With a PhD from Princeton, he has written nine books including Ivory Towers on Sand, which was actually a revelation in and to the academy of how intellectually and financially indentured is much of the professoriate in the field. Via the Shalem Center:  

"Engagement" is the new buzzword in Washington and the Middle East. The incoming Obama administration has pledged itself to launching negotiations with Iran, while Hamas has invited the administration to begin a dialogue. The potential rewards of such a policy are much discussed. But what are the risks? In this number of On Second Thought, Martin Kramer, senior fellow in Middle Eastern studies at Harvard's at Olin Institute the Center for Middle Eastern Studies at Harvard and at the Shalem Center in Jerusalem, proposes some answers.

What do the present financial crisis and U.S. Middle East policy have in common?



By Martin Kramer

Behind the financial crisis was a well-practiced mechanism for concealing risk. The risk was there, and it was constantly growing, but it could be disguised, repackaged and renamed, so that in the end it seemed to have disappeared. Much of the debate about foreign policy in the United States is conducted in the same manner: policymakers and pundits, to get what they want, conceal the risks.
 
In the case of the Middle East, they concealed the risks of bringing Yasser Arafat in from the cold; they concealed the risks of neglecting the growth of Al Qaeda; and they concealed the risks involved in occupying Iraq. It isn't that the risks weren't known—to someone. The intelligence was always there. But if you were clever enough, and determined enough, you could find a way to conceal them.
 
But concealed risk doesn't go away. It accumulates away from sight, until the moment when it surges back to the surface. It did that after Camp David in 2000, when the "peace process" collapsed in blood; it did that on 9/11, when hijackers shattered the skies over New York in Washington; and it happened in Iraq, when an insurgency kicked us back. This tendency to downplay risk may be an American trait: we have seen it in U.S. markets, and now we see it in U.S. election-year politics. In Middle East policy, its outcome has been a string of very unpleasant surprises.
 
A case in point is radical Islam. One would think that after the Iranian revolution, the assassination of Anwar Sadat, the terrorism of Hezbollah, the Rushdie affair, the suicide attacks of Hamas and Al Qaeda, the Danish cartoons, and a host of other "surprises," that we would not be inclined to ignore the risks posed by radical Islam. And yet there are batteries of interpreters, analysts and pundits whose principal project is to obscure if not conceal the risks. Here are some of the most widespread variations on the theme:
 
Worried about Ahmadinejad? Pay him no mind. He doesn't really call the shots in Iran, he's just a figurehead. And anyway, he didn't really say what he's purported to have said, about wiping Israel off the map. What the Iranians really want is to sit down with us and cut a deal. They have a few grievances, some of them are even legitimate, so let's hear them out and invite them to the table, without preconditions. Iran isn't all that dangerous; it's just a small country; and even their own people are tired of the revolution. So pay no attention to Ahmadinejad, and pay no attention to the old slogans of "death to America," because that's not the real Iran.
 
Worried about the Palestinian Hamas? You've got it wrong. They merely represent another face of Palestinian nationalism. They aren't really Islamists at all: Hamas is basically a protest movement against corruption. Given the right incentives, they can be drawn into the peace process. Sure, they say they will never recognize Israel, but that is what the PLO once said, and didn't they change their tune? Anyway, Hamas controls Gaza, so there can't be a real peace process—a settlement of the big issues like Jerusalem, refugees, borders—without bringing them into the tent. So let's sit down and talk to them, figure out what their grievances are—no doubt, some of them are legitimate too. And let's get the process back on track.
 
Troubled by Hezbollah? Don't believe everything they say. They only pretend to be faithful to Iran's ayatollahs, and all their talk about "onwards to Jerusalem" is rhetoric for domestic consumption. What they really want is to earn the Shiites their rightful place in Lebanon, and improve the lot of their aggrieved sect. Engage them, dangle some carrots, give them a place at the table, and see how quickly they transform themselves from an armed militia into a peaceable political party.
 
And so on. There is a large industry out there, which has as its sole purpose the systematic downplaying of the risks posed by radical Islam. And in the best American tradition, these risks are repackaged as opportunities, under a new name. It could just as easily be called appeasement, but the public associates appeasement with high risk. So let's rename it engagement, which sounds low-risk—after all, there's no harm in talking, right? And once the risk has been minimized, the possible pay-off is then inflated: if we engage with the Islamists, we will reap the reward in the form of a less tumultuous Middle East. Nuclear plans might be shelved, terror might wane, and peace might prevail.
 
The engagement package rests upon a key assumption: that these "radical" states, groups, and individuals are motivated by grievances. If only we were able to address or ameliorate those grievances, we could effectively domesticate just about every form of Islamism. Another assumption is that these grievances are finite—that is, by ameliorating them, they will be diminished.
 
It is precisely here that advocates of "engagement" are concealing the risk. They do so in two ways. First, they distract us from the deep-down dimension of Islamism—from the overarching narrative that drives all forms of Islamism. The narrative goes like this: the enemies of Islam—America, Europe, the Christians, the Jews, Israel—enjoy much more power than the believing Muslims do. But if we Muslim return to the faith, we can restore to ourselves the vast power we exercised in past, when Islam dominated the world as the West dominates it today. The Islamists believe that through faith—exemplified by self-sacrifice and self-martyrdom—they can put history in reverse.
 
Once this is understood, the second concealment of risk comes into focus. We are told that the demands of Hamas, Hezbollah or Iran are finite. If we give them a concession here, or a foothold there, we will have somehow diminished their demand for more concessions and footholds. But if their purpose is the reversal of history, then our gestures of accommodation, far from enticing them to give up their grand vision, only persuade them to press on. They understand our desire to engage them as a sign of weakness—an attempt to appease them—which is itself an enticement for them to push harder against us and our allies. And since they believe in their narrative of an empowered Islam with the fervency of religious conviction, no amount of insistence by us that we will go only so far and no further will stop thOur inability to estimate this risk derives in part from our unwillingness to give credence to religious conviction in politics. We are keen to recast Islamists in secular terms—to see them as political parties, or reform movements, or interest groups. But what if Islamists are none of these things? What if they see themselves as soldiers of God, working his will in the world? How do you deal with someone who believes that a paradise awaits every jihadist "martyr," and that the existence of this paradise is as real and certain to him as the existence of a Sheraton Hotel in Chicago? Or that at any moment, the mahdi, the awaited one, could make a reappearance and usher in the end of days? How do we calculate that risk?
 
So what are the real risks posed by Islamic extremism? If I were preparing a prospectus for a potential investor in "engagement," or a warning label on possible side effects of "engagement," they would include these warnings:
 
Iran: The downside risk is that Iran will prolong "engagement" in such a way as to buy time for its nuclear program—perhaps just the amount of time it needs to complete it. At the same time, it will use the fact of "engagement" with the United States to chisel away at the weak coalition of Arab states that the United States has cobbled together to contain Iran. If "engagement" is unconditionally offered, Iran will continue its subversive activities in Iraq and Lebanon until it receives some other massive concession. Indeed, it may even accelerate these activities, so as to demand a higher price for their cessation. If the United States stands its ground and "engagement" fails, many in the Middle East will automatically blame the United States, but by then, military options will be even less appealing than they are today.
 
Hamas: The downside risk is that "engagement"—even if conducted indirectly through various mediators—will be the nail in the coffin of Mahmoud Abbas, and of any directly negotiated understandings between Israel and the Palestinians. It is true that Israelis and Palestinians aren't capable today of reaching a final status agreement. But the present situation in the West Bank allows for a degree of stability and cooperation. This is because Israel stands as the guarantor against Hamas subversion of the West Bank. "Engagement" with Hamas would weaken that guarantee, signal to Palestinians once again that terrorism pays, and validate and legitimate the anti-Semitic, racist rhetoric that emanates daily from the leaders and preachers of Hamas. It might do all this without bringing Israeli-Palestinian peace even one inch closer.
 
Hezbollah: The downside risk is that "engagement" will effectively concede control of Lebanon to an armed militia that constitutes a state within a state. It will undermine America's pretension to champion civil society and pluralism in the most diverse Arab state. It will constitute the final rout of the beleaguered democracy forces within Lebanon, which have been consistently pro-American. It will compound the unfortunate effects of the 2006 summer war, by seeming to acknowledge Hezbollah as the victor. And it might do all this without bringing about the disarming of a single Hezbollah terrorist, or the removal of a single Iranian-supplied missile from Lebanon.
 
One would have to be a relentless pessimist to believe that all the downside risks I have outlined would be realized. But every serious advocate of "engagement" should acknowledge the risks, and explain their strategy for mitigating them. And it isn't enough to say: don't worry, we're going to practice "tough engagement." Perhaps we might. But most of the risks arise from the very fact of engagement—from the legitimacy it accords to the other party.
 
In the Middle East, the idea that "there's no harm in talking" is entirely incomprehensible. It matters whom you talk to, because you legitimize your interlocutors. Hence the Arab refusal to normalize relations with Israel. Remember the scene that unfolded this past summer, when Bashar Asad scrupulously avoided contact with Ehud Olmert on the same reviewing stand at a Mediterranean summit. An Arab head of state will never directly engage Israel before extracting every concession. Only an American would think of doing this at the outset, and in return for nothing: "unconditional talks" is a purely American concept, incomprehensible in the Middle East. There is harm in talking, if your talking legitimates your enemies, and persuades them and those on the sidelines that you have done so from weakness. For only the weak talk "unconditionally," which is tantamount to accepting the enemy's conditions. It is widely regarded as the prelude to unconditional surrender.
 
The United States cannot afford to roll the dice again in the Middle East, in the pious hope of winning it all. Chances are slim to nil that the United States is going to talk the Iranians, Hamas or Hezbollah out of their grand plan. Should that surprise us? We "engaged" before, with Yasser Arafat, and we know how that ended. We downplayed radical rhetoric before, with Osama bin Laden, and we know how that ended. We assumed we could talk people out of their passions in Iraq, and we know how that ended.
 
It is time to question risk-defying policies in the Middle East. The slogans of peace and democracy misled us. Let's not let the new slogan of engagement do the same. The United States is going to have to show the resolve and grit to wear and grind down adversaries, with soft power, hard power and will power. Paradoxically, that is the least risky path—because if America persists, it will prevail.

Posted: Wednesday, November 26, 2008 10:39 AM with 13 comment(s)

Comments

You must be logged-in to comment.

Not a subscriber? Click here to get a digital or print and digital subscription to The New Republic!

jacobt1 said:

Now you tell us. Too late.

November 26, 2008 1:49 PM

scrubbyoak said:

"One would have to be a relentless pessimist to believe that all the downside risks I have outlined would be realized."

No kidding.

November 26, 2008 8:58 PM

MichLib said:

It takes a true paranoid Jew to buy nearly any of the crap in this long list of AIPAC talking points. Seeing as it is Thanksgiving Day and it would take way too long to deconstruct this entire piece, I'll just point out one glaring inconsistency in these arguments...

Regarding Hamas and Hezbollah, the argument about direct talks "legitimizing" them only barely comes close to being valid.. because it's clear they are already operational organizations with recruiting techniques, strategies, agendas, among other things - all characteristics of legitimate organizations. I understand the fear that talks could signal to other people in the Middle East that Hamas or Hezbollah is "the real deal" and could lead to those people joining the cause. Point taken.

But using the same argument against Iran is incredibly misleading. Like it or not, Iran is a legitimate state. Marginalizing states like Iran does. not. help. the. situation. Isolationist strategies didn't work in the 50s with China and the Soviet Union and it won't work today with Iran, Venezuela, etc. Yes, I realize the differences between China and Venezuela and Iran and the Soviet Union but the fact is Iran is already a recognized state in the international community. Talking with Iran's leaders will not further legitimize them nor will it delegitimize our message of peace in the region and our (needlessly obsessive) mission to "protect" Israel. What it will do, however, is go a long way to show the people of Iran (remember, they haven't been huge fans of Ahmadinejad as of late) that the U.S. is not a tyrannical power imposing its' will on the region, rather it is open to helping Iran move forward as a state. Of course, should Iran continuously insist on such things as nuclear weapons programs and the obliteration of Israel, the U.S. can't (and wouldn't) allow it.

In this case, an open dialogue will further legitimize the U.S., especially to our European and other allies who have balked at the war-first policies of the Bush administration.

Oh, and stating that opening a dialogue with a group or a country is tantamount to accepting the enemy's conditions and surrendering is pure warmongering trash. There's no place for this type of thought in any meaningful foreign policy discussion. I'm just glad our new President will be much wiser than Marty Peretz and Martin Kramer.

November 27, 2008 12:50 PM

jacobt1 said:

MichLib said:

"What it will do, however, is go a long way to show the people of Iran (remember, they haven't been huge fans of Ahmadinejad as of late) that the U.S. is not a tyrannical power imposing its' will on the region, rather it is open to helping Iran move forward as a state."

There's no place for this type of thought in any meaningful foreign policy discussion.

November 27, 2008 1:42 PM

jacksondyer said:

MichLib said:

“It takes a true paranoid Jew to buy nearly any of the crap in this long list of AIPAC talking points. Seeing as it is Thanksgiving Day and it would take way too long to deconstruct this entire piece, I'll just point out one glaring inconsistency in these arguments...”

It takes a meshugener “Lib” to post such crazy paranoid nonsense. The post as I will show is both very dishonest and inconsistent.

This M.Lib. must belong to the anti-zionist pro-Iranian lobby given that he has reposted most of Juan Cole’s talking points.

“Regarding Hamas and Hezbollah, the argument about direct talks "legitimizing" them only barely comes close to being valid.. because it's clear they are already operational organizations with recruiting techniques, strategies, agendas, among other things - all characteristics of legitimate organizations.”

Sorry buster it takes more than being an “operational organization” to make it legitimate. Al Kaida, among other illegitimate organizations, also has operational capability.

The term legitimate here doesn’t mean ability to mount an operation it means having international recognition.

But I suspect you already knew that.

“I understand the fear that talks could signal to other people in the Middle East that Hamas or Hezbollah is "the real deal" and could lead to those people joining the cause. Point taken.”

That’s very liberal (or Christian) of you Juan Cole wannabe.

“But using the same argument against Iran is incredibly misleading. Like it or not, Iran is a legitimate state. Marginalizing states like Iran does. not. help. the. situation. Isolationist strategies didn't work in the 50s with China and the Soviet Union and it won't work today with Iran, Venezuela, etc.”

This is another Juan Cole talking point; also beside the point.

Iran’s  support of terrorism, its threat to wipe Israel of the map, its desire to acquire nuclear weapons has placed whatever legitimacy it has in question.

“Yes, I realize the differences between China and Venezuela and Iran and the Soviet Union but the fact is Iran is already a recognized state in the international community.”

You are repeating yourself.

“Talking with Iran's leaders will not further legitimize them nor will it delegitimize our message of peace in the region and our (needlessly obsessive) mission to "protect" Israel.”

Now, you are giving yourself away, Juan Cole.

Why is out alliance with Israel obsessive?

In any case you are just making a number of claiming without proving them.

A nuclear Iran is a threat not only to Israel, but also to the Arab gulf States as well as to Europe. This is how these other countries see it.

Moreover, you begin in good antisemitic fashion to call Jews paranoid and then ended up saying that we  should let the Iranians destroy Israel.

“What it will do, however, is go a long way to show the people of Iran (remember, they haven't been huge fans of Ahmadinejad as of late) that the U.S. is not a tyrannical power imposing its' will on the region, rather it is open to helping Iran move forward as a state.”

Excuse me Ahmadinejad isn’t the real power there it’s the Mullahs.

Besides we don’t have to prove anything to the Iranian people. Most of them already know that we are not a “tyrannical power.” You are the only one here Juan Cole who thinks that.

“Of course, should Iran continuously insist on such things as nuclear weapons programs and the obliteration of Israel, the U.S. can't (and wouldn't) allow it.”

Bad syntax and all, you seem to have turned a hundred-eighty degrees from your earlier point.

But Iran is insisting on “such things” so why should the US even want to discuss anything with them?

“In this case, an open dialogue will further legitimize the U.S., especially to our European and other allies who have balked at the war-first policies of the Bush administration.”

But earlier you said that Iran had legitimacy because it was a functioning State, now you say that they US lacks complete legitimacy.

Is the US any less of a functioning State than Iran? Moreover if there are degrees of legitimacy than why is Professor Kramer’s claim that we shouldn’t bolster Iran by entering into dialogue with them wrong?

“Oh, and stating that opening a dialogue with a group or a country is tantamount to accepting the enemy's conditions and surrendering is pure warmongering trash. There's no place for this type of thought in any meaningful foreign policy discussion. I'm just glad our new President will be much wiser than Marty Peretz and Martin Kramer.”

Leaving aside your childish rhetorical nonsense, entering into a dialogue with an enemy of his terms (and this is what Iran has openly demanded) is tantamount to surrender.

Like Juan Cole this poster has scribbled a diatribe full of inconsistency and double talk.

November 27, 2008 4:31 PM

MichLib said:

As usual, it's not worth responding to jacob. But maybe jackson can take a break from his Arab-hating to actually think through an issue - it's doubtful, but I have hope.

"This is another Juan Cole talking point; also beside the point. "

Considering the topic of this post is engagement, referencing previous containment vs. engagement debates is certainly not beside the point.

"Why is out alliance with Israel obsessive?"

'Out' alliance with Israel isn't obsessive, certain peoples' views that we can and should use American lives to defend Israel by any means at any time is obsessive.

"A nuclear Iran is a threat not only to Israel, but also to the Arab gulf States as well as to Europe. This is how these other countries see it.

Moreover, you begin in good antisemitic fashion to call Jews paranoid and then ended up saying that we  should let the Iranians destroy Israel. "

No other European states are as paranoid about Iran as is Peretz, Kramer and you jackson. And never did I once claim we should let Iran destroy Israel. Who's being dishonest?

"Excuse me Ahmadinejad isn’t the real power there it’s the Mullahs."

Kramer says in this post: Worried about Ahmadinejad? Pay him no mind. He doesn't really call the shots in Iran, he's just a figurehead.

Hey jackson, guess what - he was being sarcastic. Yes, I know where the real power lies, but to say he has no power is ignorant.

"Bad syntax and all, you seem to have turned a hundred-eighty degrees from your earlier point."

No, not really. My point has always been that Obama's idea of engagement is not tantamount to surreder as Kramer tries to argue.

"But earlier you said that Iran had legitimacy because it was a functioning State, now you say that they US lacks complete legitimacy."

Sorry, I could have been more clear. I meant to refer to the U.S. mission in the Middle East, not the U.S. as a state. You probably could have drawn that same conclusin if you were even trying to understand a viewpoint other than AIPAC's.

"Leaving aside your childish rhetorical nonsense, entering into a dialogue with an enemy of his terms (and this is what Iran has openly demanded) is tantamount to surrender."

My childish rhetorical nonsense, to people who think, is called the truth. Entering into dialogue with an enemy never has, nor will be, tantamount to surrender.

"Leaving aside your childish rhetorical nonsense, entering into a dialogue with an enemy of his terms (and this is what Iran has openly demanded) is tantamount to surrender. "

Juan Cole reference count: 6. You are repeating yourself.

November 27, 2008 11:02 PM

jacksondyer said:

MichLib said:   "But maybe jackson can take a break from his Arab-hating to actually think through an issue - it's doubtful, but I have hope."

This is a funny comment from someone who talks about "Jewish paranoia."

Besides I didn't attack Arabs in the my post who are  also being threatened by the Mullahs.  I did attacked you and I attacked the Iranian government.

What I said stands.

Your posts are nothing but a veiled defense of Iranian aggression.

November 28, 2008 9:43 AM

jacksondyer said:

Iranian justice at work:

"Court orders Iranian man blinded

A court in Iran has ruled that a man who blinded a woman with acid after she spurned his marriage proposals will also be blinded with acid.

The ruling was reported in Iranian newspapers on Thursday.

The punishment is legal under the Islamic Sharia code of qias or equivalence, which allows retribution for violent crimes.

The court also ordered the attacker, 27-year-old Majid Movahedi, to pay compensation to the victim.

The acid attack took place in 2004. The victim, Ameneh Bahrami, went to Spain for surgery to reconstruct her face but efforts to restore her sight failed.

The ruling was a response to her plea to the court in the Iranian capital Tehran for retribution.

"Ever since I was subject to acid being thrown on my face, I have a constant feeling of being in danger," she told the court.

Ms Bahrami also said that Movahedi had also threatened to kill her. "

Story from BBC NEWS:

newsvote.bbc.co.uk/.../7754756.stm

November 28, 2008 11:36 AM

MichLib said:

Sorry jackson, no matter how you spin it you're still wrong and dishonest. Nowhere do I defend Iranian aggression. Stop being so paranoid!

November 28, 2008 1:57 PM

scrubbyoak said:

Not to defend the Iranian justice, but the punishment being meted out to the acid thrower is well deserved. I'll even go further and blind the bastard with acid in just the exact way he committed his atrocity. Uncivilized? You betcha, but no more uncivilized than the acts of entitled morons going around blinding or facially disfiguring women that rejected their marriage proposals.

An eye for an eye, which as punishment, fit certain heinous crimes.

November 28, 2008 2:35 PM

jacksondyer said:

MichLib said:

"Sorry jackson, no matter how you spin it you're still wrong and dishonest. Nowhere do I defend Iranian aggression. Stop being so paranoid!"

Where do you defend Iranaian aggression?

Try this:

"Like it or not, Iran is a legitimate state. Marginalizing states like Iran does. not. help. the. situation. Isolationist strategies didn't work in the 50s with China and the Soviet Union and it won't work today with Iran, Venezuela, etc.”  Mich Lib

You are too clever to defend them openly, but your aim here is clear enough.

Ina anyc ase, your calling me "paranoid" doesn't bother me in the least.

I am a Yid after all, and pace you, all Yids are paranoid.

Oh, did I forget to call you a Jew hater? How silly of me.

Well, till next time.

November 28, 2008 5:43 PM

jacksondyer said:

scrubbyoak said:  "Not to defend the Iranian justice, but the punishment being meted out to the acid thrower is well deserved. I'll even go further and blind the bastard with acid in just the exact way he committed his atrocity. Uncivilized? You betcha, but no more uncivilized than the acts of entitled morons going around blinding or facially disfiguring women that rejected their marriage proposals."

Well you are defending Iranian in- justice.

Whatever the creep merited and I could see, say, family members of the woman avenging themselves on him, but for a State to act out of vengeance doesn't give one much confidence in its moral judgment in any area. But then we already knew that about Iran.

“An eye for an eye, which as punishment, fit certain heinous crimes.”

In the Hebrew bible an eye for an eye has always been interpreted by Jewish Talmudists to mean that one could place a monetary value on an offense and demand that the perp or his family make amends by offering some kind of payment.

In Hebrew an eye for an eye means literally: “an eye under an eye.” The word in question here is “tachat” which literally means “under.”

November 28, 2008 5:50 PM

MichLib said:

jackson, it's sad that you perpetuate that which you claim to despise. It's people like you that are the cause of modern-day anti-semitism. Nothing in what you quoted of me defends Iranian aggression in the least. And moreover, none of these posts (including the original one by Peretz) are even arguing about Iranian aggression. Instead, they are arguing about containment vs. engagement.

My argument (and the quote that you used) is about the failed policies of containment (or isolation) versus the policy I prefer in international relations: engagement.

Taking every statement/comment/post out of context and twisting it into some anti-Semitic rant only breeds resentment toward those claiming such nonsense. You'd do yourself much better to read words for what they are, not conjure up some bizarre accusations that were absent from the writers' mind while posting.

And I don't hate Jews, I dislike any person of any group that purposely searches for reasons and ways to play the victim... a.k.a. you!

November 29, 2008 8:01 PM

Double click this space to insert your ad.