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COLUMNISTS
TODAY'S STORIES
09.11.2008
Bill Ayers, Still A Jerk

The president-elect has not forgiven Bill Ayers his sins. This is not  for mortals to do. It is for the great rabbi in the skies. Or perhaps Karl Marx and Rosa Luxemburg, acting jointly as a court of justice from on high.

But David Remnick, the editor of the New Yorker, which judges just how far nice liberals can stray from common sense and a decent respect for the truth, has forgiven him.

Ayers seemed curiously calm and cheerful about the way he had been made an issue in the campaign. He seemed unbothered to have been part of what he called “the Swiftboating” process of the 2008 campaign.

“It’s all guilt by association,” Ayers said. “They made me into a cartoon character—they threw me up onstage just to pummel me. I felt from the beginning that the Obama campaign had to run the Obama campaign and I have to run my life.” Ayers said that once his name became part of the campaign maelstrom he never had any contact with the Obama circle. “That’s not my world,” he said.


So henceforth, in many homes on Central Park West and in the homes of those across the country who yearn to live there, Bill Ayers will have been returned to a certain respectability. But already in Chicago he has had that. Will he go further? No. He will probably go nowhere. Ron Radosh, who has forgotten more about the destructiveness of the 60's Left than David Remnick will ever know, tells us what the New Yorker editor didn't bother to mention:

Remnick lets Ayers get away with almost every point about his time in The Weather Underground. Attacks on him were all “guilt by association; ” he was made a “cartoon character.” Ayers expresses sympathy with Rev. Jeremiah Wright, who also was, Ayers told Remnick, “treated grotesquely and unfairly.” Evidently listening to, watching and reading Wright’s actual sermons is not enough for one to be allowed to render judgment.

Most egregious is that Remnick also lets Ayers get away with his excuse that he never meant to imply in the 2001 Times article about him that he wished they had engaged in more violence and bombings. When he told them “I wish I had done more,” Ayers claims, “it doesn’t mean I wish we’d bombed more shit.” He never had been responsible for violence against other people, he said. He was only acting politically to end the war in Vietnam. His only sin was to use juvenile rhetoric, and he says that he only engaged in “extreme radicalism against property.”

Ayers and Remnick must think people cannot read for themselves. Ayers actually said: “I don’t regret setting bombs. I feel we didn’t do enough.” Asked whether he would advocate bombing again, he answered: “I don’t want to discount the possibility.” Or as he writes in his memoir: “I can’t imagine entirely dismissing the possibility.”

By repeating Ayers’ false excuses, and without challenging or correcting him, Remnick allows his publication’s readers to conclude that Ayers is, not as his enemies have claimed, an unrepentant advocate of terrorism, but a wise 1960’s activist, who has learned bitter lessons and who is now much wiser.  I assume Remnick has not read Ayers two year old interview in Revolution and his speech in Venezuela standing next to Hugo Chavez, two examples which alone would quickly disabuse anyone of Ayers’ having learned anything in the past decades.

 

What is at really stake here is how America judges its past. There are reasons for harsh judgement. There are reasons also for love. But how do we judge those who purported to be America's judges and did evil while they judged?



   
 

Posted: Sunday, November 09, 2008 1:11 PM with 39 comment(s)

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jacksondyer said:

Why are you surprised?

Didn't David Remnick hire Seymour M. Hersh who makes up his own fats to suit his stories and attacks on the US?

Hersh predicted that Bush would attack Iran. Does anyone remember that?

The New Yorker is a middle brow tabloid with pretentions to intellectuality.

November 9, 2008 2:07 PM

ironyroad said:

If the election is anything to go by, a majority of American don't give a fuck who Bill Ayers is, who he was, or what he says.

Which, in fact, a lot of us were arguing here on this board over the last few months.

November 9, 2008 3:02 PM

noga1 said:

"...a majority of American don't give a fuck who Bill Ayers is, who he was, or what he says."

I don't quite know how to put it, but the fact that the majority of people don't give a f*** about any issue which calls for some moral astuteness and judgment does not exactly justify the not giving a f***. What bothers me is not that people refused to create a linkage between Obama and the two radicals mentioned in he article. Obama was explcit about his own sentiments and I think Obama is an honorable man who may be trusted.

So far he has not said or done anything to suggest we shouldn't trust him.

What bothered me was the attempt to mitigate for or even exonerate these two characters: So what if Wright said what he did and did what he did? Wasn't it true, anyway? So what was so bad about Ayres' past?

If you want to not give a f*** about Ayres or wright, fine. But don't imply that anyone who was troubled by them was somehow politically-motivated,  or paranoiac or too damned unforgiving.

November 9, 2008 4:19 PM

thejauntyboulevardier said:

peretz,

either I'm getting crankier or I don't know...

This Ayers pustule struck me as a real a-----e. His family's money got his cock sure ass out of a blizzard of bad legal juju. If I had done what this bastard did, I would still be rotting in the can, with my only friends the posse of rats who stop by to chat, eat my crumbs, and free of charge, nibble on my feet during the night.

The 'Tude that this gives off in really offputting. Just look at this mug shot from the sixties. That guy knew he had the system juiced. He could have very well said something to help Obama over the past 6 months but he kept quiet. Perhaps this was the best strategy but still, it irked me. Moneyed white arrogant radicals are just the worst kind of a------s.  

November 9, 2008 4:35 PM

mollysimon said:

Jaunty,

"cock sure" should really read "cock-sure."  Otherwise, I entirely agree with your post.

November 9, 2008 5:29 PM

ironyroad said:

"But don't imply that anyone who was troubled by them was somehow politically-motivated,  or paranoiac or too damned unforgiving."

I wasn't implying that, noga.  I was stating that the attempt to smear Obama by way of an association with someone whose purported crimes, for which he was never convicted or even indicted, were committed when Obama was a small kid, and whose presence on the board of a legal charity foundation involved educational work sponsored by both Democrats and Republicans and valued by the city of Chicago, was happily rejected by a large number of Americans.

To consider Ayers unimportant and his "radical" years at most a footnote to modern American history is not mitigating or exonerating him, I would assert.  But even if you don't share my view on the issue, we do have the law and the presumption of innocence holds even if you don't like it and think that he shouldn't have gotten away free.

November 9, 2008 5:58 PM

scrubbyoak said:

Gee, molly, let jaunty be.  We got his point. Besides, "cock-sure" should really read "cocksure". Look it up.

Anyway, mucho love, just as always.

November 9, 2008 6:09 PM

woland said:

Welcome back Jacksondyer!  Long time no whine.  Guess that's what happens when someone gets schooled!

November 9, 2008 6:09 PM

noga1 said:

Please, Irony, don't let's go legalistic here. You might say the same about OJ Simpson, who was not only indicted but stood trial by jury and still got away. Is he an innocent man?

The law does not legislate morality or moral judgment.

I can't believe you are resorting to this kind of argument. Do you know how many times I've been asked what I think the law should do about antisemites? Can the law do anything about defamation and villification by antisemites? Of course not. What I expect is a public outcry where the culprit  knows his ideas and words are not tolerated by decent people. Same goes for someone who openly regrets not blowing up more buildings when he was young and hadt he energy for it. He may have managed to trick the law, but that hardly means he should have an easy and comfortable life, with firends and colleagues who come to coddle him when he is made uncomfortable. Has he ever recanted, to merit such solicitude? For me, that could be the only incentive for relegating his past to the attic.

November 9, 2008 7:11 PM

ironyroad said:

The truth is, Chicago isn't Crawford, TX, and there are a number of people with radical/militant pasts around the place, and if you are involved in progressive politics or advocacy you are going to inevitably meet them, and even work with them.

In general, however, I'd tend to rate thirty years of constructive work -- which has been recognized by people and institutions that would have no sympathy for Ayers' former political militancy -- a little higher than formal "recantations" that mean nothing.

You also raise an ethical aspect, noga.  Here's a question:  if Obama regarded the work of the educational charity as worth doing, and saw that Ayers was making his contribution to that work, would it have been an ethical decision to say, I'm not going to continue on this board with Ayers because that connection could damage my chances of winning public office?  In my opinion, it would not have been.

November 9, 2008 9:07 PM

bdgreen said:

You're kidding? Somebody still cares about William Ayers five days after the election? Surely even Marty knows Ayers is a nobody -- moreover, a nobody who's largely worked for good causes for thirty years! I don't know whether he's going to Heaven or Candyland or where-the-hell-ever when he dies and I couldn't care less. His association with Obama is beyond peripheral -- in fact, as ironyroad posts, it would reflect poorly on Obama if he refused to serve the cause of educational reform for the sake of avoiding such a minor presence. If anybody here is literally scared of an old dork like William Ayers, how do they step outside their front door in the morning without dying of fright?

I guess what I'm saying is, Ayers is Marty's least frightening boogeyman of 2008, and his competition includes the Quakers. Let's get back to the classy, intellectual stuff, like wishing terminal illnesses on foreign leaders we hate.

November 9, 2008 9:41 PM

jacksondyer said:

bdgreen said:  ‘You're kidding? Somebody still cares about William Ayers five days after the election? Surely even Marty knows Ayers is a nobody -- moreover, a nobody who's largely worked for good causes for thirty years!”

This incoherent, green.

Do you support Hamas too because they offer free food to people?

Ayers is more than a jerk, he is a criminal who wanted to kill people for his idea of a perfect society. He should not have been given a job in which he can inculcate young people with deadly propaganda.

November 9, 2008 10:45 PM

jacksondyer said:

ironyroad said:  "If the election is anything to go by, a majority of American don't give a fuck who Bill Ayers is, who he was, or what he says."

The electorate didn't vote on the Ayers issue. They voted on economic issues mostly.

Ayers was a distractin which is why it was stupid of McCain to bring it up.

November 9, 2008 10:48 PM

jacksondyer said:

woland said:  "Welcome back Jacksondyer!  Long time no whine.  Guess that's what happens when someone gets schooled!"

Are you still here, jerk?

November 9, 2008 10:49 PM

jacksondyer said:

thejauntyboulevardier said:  "This Ayers pustule struck me as a real a-----e. His family's money got his cock sure ass out of a blizzard of bad legal juju. If I had done what this bastard did, I would still be rotting in the can, with my only friends the posse of rats who stop by to chat, eat my crumbs, and free of charge, nibble on my feet during the night."

Excellent comment, Jaunty. I am in agreement. The guy's status and money saved him. He was one of those credit card radicals of the 60's bravely took on the establishment with his family's finamces and used those same finances to get himself off the hook.

November 9, 2008 10:52 PM

mollysimon said:

Hey, Scrubby,

I was just teasing Jaunty.  I'm actually fond of very fond of the guy.

Jackson,

Hi.  

November 10, 2008 3:02 AM

norval13 said:

Ayers' useful work--like the pustule had a choice.  It was shape up or next time daddy's money just might disappear and he and his wife would be rotting in jail . . .

November 10, 2008 8:15 AM

noga1 said:

"Do you support Hamas too because they offer free food to people?"

Well, that's the thought that fleeted through my mind when I read IronyRoad's

" I'd tend to rate thirty years of constructive work -- which has been recognized by people and institutions that would have no sympathy for Ayers' former political militancy -- a little higher than formal "recantations" that mean nothing."

An empty recantation is a false one and quite useless, I agree. But I was speaking of a genuine one that is the result of self-critical search, dealing with personal responsibility and understanding the harm in your choices.

Where do you draw the line, Irony?  How much harm can a person commit, and be allowed to eschew a reckoning, before you are willing to shun him/her? And what exactly constitutes "constructive work " when it is done by an unindicted, unrepentant terrorist (Or merely a "militant", as you choose to refer to him)?

When I read or hear this kind of exculpatory rhapsodization of the man, I think of this:

www.memritv.org/.../1818.htm

I daresay Quntar is doing a lot of good social work for Hizzbala these days.

November 10, 2008 9:04 AM

robertg69 said:

Who exactly is the JERK?

November 10, 2008 9:59 AM

ironyroad said:

Noga:  "Where do you draw the line, Irony?  How much harm can a person commit, and be allowed to eschew a reckoning, before you are willing to shun him/her?"

I think it depends on the individual case.

November 10, 2008 11:44 AM

noga1 said:

I thought this might be your answer. Would you care to give us an estimate, some rule of thumb? Let's say, on a continuum, between Wilde's Ideal Husband and Kurt Waldheim, how do you propose we judge when bygones are bygones?

November 10, 2008 11:59 AM

ironyroad said:

That's a fair question, but not very easy to answer.  Let me think about it.  However, you skipped past a question of mine earlier:  if Obama regarded the work of the educational charity as worth doing, and saw that Ayers was making his contribution to that work, would it have been an ethical decision for Obama to say, I'm not going to continue on this board with Ayers because (a) that connection could damage my chances of winning public office, and/or because (b) Ayers was involved with a violent radical left organization 35 years ago?

November 10, 2008 12:53 PM

thejauntyboulevardier said:

Molly,

Hee, hee, I knew you were just jerking my chain. No offense.

And I still think that this Ayers creep is just that, a creep....

November 10, 2008 2:26 PM

noga1 said:

I thought my position was clear:

" ..if Obama regarded the work of the educational charity as worth doing, and saw that Ayers was making his contribution to that work, would it have been an ethical decision for Obama to say, I'm not going to continue on this board with Ayers because... "

"Ayers was involved with a violent radical left organization 35 years ago" and has not demonstrated that he regretted the means he used to effect political change.

There is no natural affinity between your A and B.

I think Obama did not demonstrate good judgment in his dcision to work together with this peson. He chose to be tolerant of Ayers' egrgious past, by claiming a principle of ‘non-interference’ , in other words, he decided that he would remain morally neutral in order to continue to do what he considered was a good thing. This is a problematic choice that Obama made and it is something that has  been bugging me for ever when I encounter those who refuse to take a clear moral stand in any issue.  I find it hard to believe that  there were no other available choices, for a person of his connections and charisma. He decided to avert his gaze. As I'm sure many of us do repeatedly. It's just too damn hard to take the righteous road, isn't it?

Dante reserved a special space for such prevaricators in his Purgatory.  It was a cold place, right beyond the gate. Not the worst place, but still, pretty uncomfortable, to spend your eternity there...

November 10, 2008 2:38 PM

TLaBorn said:

nogal said:

"He chose to be tolerant of Ayers' egrgious past, by claiming a principle of ‘non-interference’ , in other words, he decided that he would remain morally neutral in order to continue to do what he considered was a good thing. This is a problematic choice that Obama made and it is something that has  been bugging me for ever when I encounter those who refuse to take a clear moral stand in any issue."

You completely lost me here.  You are saying that the leader of the free world who will have to converse with other countries that may / may not have large political or financial clout should purposely shun them because they do something they have done at some point in history is not agreeable?  Is not the whole purpose of political leaders to be the calm thoughtful presentation of the ideals of said country for positive gain?  If he was to take the stance as you just indicated is to be expected then he and pretty much every other person in the world most likely including yourself would have been disqualified.  So in other words:  No one is qualified to be a leader.

Are you an anarchist?

November 10, 2008 3:09 PM

davidlheber said:

I sure hope that you are all right about Obama being oblivious to all these coincidental associations.

November 10, 2008 3:55 PM

noga1 said:

TLaBorn,  I'm not sure I fully understand your flight of thinking. Are you claiming that Obama's association with a morally-defective person was something of a dress-rehearsal for years later sitting down with the likes of Ahmadinejad to solve the world's problems? Are  leaders obliged to tolerate and cooperate with all  leaders of all countries, even wannabe and actual genocidaires? Should Clinton have courted Slobodan Milošević? Should Obama work together with Sudanese President, Hassan Ahmad AL BASHIR  in preparing the UN "anti-racism" Durban II conference? Isn't the conference a "good cause" enough for that to happen? Where do you draw the line?

November 10, 2008 6:54 PM

ironyroad said:

Making my own position clear, I think it would clearly have been unethical of Obama to refuse to work on the relevant board with Ayers, for either reason.  In contrast, it would not have been unethical of him to refuse Ayers' offer to host a fund-raiser back in 1998 or whenever it was, had Obama so decided, but it would have been a bit odd.

As I tried to say above in various formulations, my issue is not Ayers himself -- I always thought his brand of left politics destructive and likely to lead into an ugly cul-de-sac, quite apart from the issue of criminal violence.  What I do care about is this nonsense about Obama and Ayers, which is a potential smear against anyone who hangs around in left-progressive circles, because there's always going to be someone there who has a chequered past.

So shun, you would say, Noga.  But where does this exercise in shunning end?  Or is it designed never to end?  Is a graduate student who asks Ayers to be on his dissertation committee excluding himself from any chance of public office in the future?  Is a colleague of Ayers who invites him to a party "palling around with terrorists"?  Is the Mayor of Chicago now under suspicion because he says that it happened over 30 years ago and you have to take what someone has done since then into account?

November 10, 2008 8:46 PM

noga1 said:

"Is the Mayor of Chicago now under suspicion because he says that it happened over 30 years ago and you have to take what someone has done since then into account?"

"it happened over 30 years ago " - that's a nice subjectless formulation. It happened, as though there was no will to act which caused "it " to happen, as if the person who committed those crimes was a listless ragdoll, without agency, being carried upon forces not of his own choosing, to rip the the fabric of civil life.

Ayers appears to be as tenacious in his conviction as ever.  I don't understand what such a person does on a board of education, however he got to serve on that board and to have enough power to help a colleague in his political career. But it does explain why he is completely without remorse. Not only no one is demanding that he recognize the evil of his choices, it appears as though people are rallying around him, comforting him, for being "persecuted" for something that happened thirty years ago, poor blameless victim. Weren't his intentions good?

As for Obama's association with him, I would have liked to adopt the same attitude as you, but I can't. The best I can do is extend to him the same courtesy I extend to myself, when I make a bad judgment, to jot it down to valuable experience due to human fallibility, and learn something from this failure for some future use.

November 10, 2008 10:00 PM

scrubbyoak said:

noga,

Isn't it extreme to compare Ayers to al Bashir? How many people did Ayers kill? His old gang - the weathermen - went out of their way to avoid killing people, and bombeb only empty buildings, no? Not that I don't disaprove, but al Bashir? C'mon.

The election is over and you've still got your partisan blinders on. What else explains your one-sided censure of associations with a "morally-defective person"? Your paragon of virtue, McCain, has had such associations and I don't hear you complaining. Remember his good buddy, G Gordon Liddy?

November 10, 2008 10:28 PM

sleepyavl said:

Nothing remembering Ayers. A jerk is a jerk.

November 10, 2008 10:31 PM

noga1 said:

"Isn't it extreme to compare Ayers to al Bashir?"

Please read the exchange with TLaBorn again. It was he/she who made a leap from this case to world leadership. and I  responded in kind.

November 10, 2008 10:41 PM

ironyroad said:

"I don't understand what such a person does on a board of education, however he got to serve on that board and to have enough power to help a colleague in his political career."

As far as I know, he's a well respected professor of Education at the University of Illinois, and has been recognized for his work over a couple of decades by a wide range of institutions.

I'm curious how far you think the shunning should go -- as per my examples above.

November 10, 2008 10:41 PM

scrubbyoak said:

Point taken, noga. My bad, still, you are very partisan and one-sided. Ayers, if you recall, was handpicked for the education board on which he served with Obama by Annernberg (spell), a Republican ambassador who, also, happens to be  a moneyman and close friend of McCain. I've not heard a peep about that association from Republicans.

Moral judgment is moral only when it's equally applied to all sides.

November 10, 2008 11:48 PM

noga1 said:

scrubbyoak; I'm not interested  in Right wing politics. I'm very interested in leftism and radicalism, and how the center shifts to the left when the  political wind allows it. I am not partisan in this game because my interest is not American dialectics but the issue of tolerating the intolerable, such as terrorism and how far people are willing to go to make excuses for it and to accommodate it within a mainstream thought. Ayers is such an example, and I find it troubling that someone like IR goes to such  efforts to persuade me that Ayers is a respectable proffessor, and that my (theoretical) insistence that he be held accountable for his past is somehow illogical.

There is such a principle of forgiveness, but forgiveness cannot take place unless the perpetrator expresses understanding and sorrow for the harm he caused. What does it mean that Ayers cannot show that kind of thoughtful reevaluation of his past beliefs and actions?People died because of his activism. Is it because he is simply stubborn or because he does not really feel he did anything genuinely wrong?  Surely there is a problem with such a person, no?

Irony: The answer depends, as you said earlier, on the individual case, on the kind of depth and identification with Ayers.

November 11, 2008 7:05 AM

scrubbyoak said:

"People died because of his activism."

No, noga, he did not kill anybody. From what I know, his group deliberately avoided human targets. They bombed empty office buildings. If you have contrary facts, maybe you should share them with us.

"Surely there is a problem with such a person, no?"

Yes, but not like, say, a murderous terrorist that targets human beings.

November 11, 2008 8:16 AM

noga1 said:

"No, noga, he did not kill anybody. "

Yes, I know. But when you set off a bomb, how certain can you be that nobody is going to get killed? Though aware of the possibility, you are still going to set off that bomb. Was he doing it in self-defence, that he could afford to take that risk? Didn't his girlfriend and friend get blown up by a bomb they were preparing? Wasn't he an accomplice in that group which encouraged and possibly requested that they make that bomb?  Wasn't he playing with fire, all the time?

November 11, 2008 9:08 AM

noga1 said:

"Now, Ayers seeks police protection against those who threaten him regularly. He’s lucky they are only threats. He and his associates went way beyond verbal harassment, and planted and planned to bomb targets that would have killed thousands of Americans. Now, like any other good citizen, he turns for protection to those he regularly used to call “pigs,” and whose supporters in Grant Park in 1968 attacked fiercely, even paralyzing one cop for life, and then bragging about it in a song written to a Dylan tune. Now, as he says, he is “pals” with one cop in particular whom he has turned to before."

pajamasmedia.com/.../the-chutzpah-of-bill-ayers

November 12, 2008 7:09 PM

noga1 said:

This man, too, could be said to be "a well respected professor..[who] has been recognized for his work over a couple of decades..."

"Diab is a part-time sociology professor at the University of Ottawa, CTV News has learned. According to the university officials, he teaches one class at the undergraduate level.

Diab is also listed as a contract instructor in the department of sociology and anthropology at Carleton University for the fall of 2008..."

www.ctv.ca/.../20081113

Just saying.

November 14, 2008 12:49 PM

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