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COLUMNISTS
TODAY'S STORIES
24.09.2008
What's More Is That She Cannot Put Together A Sentence Or, For That Matter, A Thought; Is This a Conspiracy to Make George Bush Seem Literate And Coherent?

Well, the first wisdom of the pundits was that the choice of Sarah Palin for vice president was inspired. All over the country Democrats had a sinking feeling
that McCain had outfoxed them. Biden seemed to have evaporated. Palin, Palin, Palin was on everybody's lips.The Obama ticket fell in the polls.

A few weeks have passed. The American people have had occasions to see her, hear her and read about her.  Apparently, they did not like what they saw or
what they heard or what they read.
 
Katie Couric has been with Palin for some time. Here's the first installment. It's mortifying and degrading.


September 24, 2008
 
CBS NEWS ANCHOR KATIE COURIC INTERVIEWS VICE PRESIDENTIAL NOMINEE
SARAH PALIN ON TONIGHT'S CBS EVENING NEWS

 
Following is the transcript of tonight's interview, which focuses on the nation‚s economic crisis. Tomorrow's (25) portion of the interview will focus on international affairs.  As previously announced, Couric's extended interview with Gov. Palin from the campaign trail will be broadcast on the CBS EVENING NEWS next Monday (29) and Tuesday (30).
 
Mandatory credit:  the CBS EVENING NEWS WITH KATIE COURIC
 
COURIC:  Sarah Palin kept up her busy schedule today, meeting with several world leaders who are here in New York for the UN session. But she took time out for an exclusive interview, in which we discussed the state of the economy at length.  We began, though, by addressing reports that the lobbying firm of Senator McCain's campaign manager received payments from Freddie Mac until last month. I asked for her reaction to that.
 
PALIN: My understanding is that Rick Davis recused himself from the dealings of the firm. I don't know how long ago, a year or two ago that he's not benefiting from that. And you know, I was--I would hope that's not the case.
 
COURIC: But he still has a stake in the company so isn't that a conflict of interest.
 
PALIN: Again, my understanding is that he recused himself from the dealings with Freddie and Fannie, any lobbying efforts on his part there. And I would hope that's the case because, as John McCain has been saying, and as I've been on a more local level been on a much more local level been also rallying against is the undue influence of lobbyists in public policy decisions being made.

COURIC: Then we focused on the $700 billion government bailout of bad debt and I asked her if she supports it.
 
PALIN:  I'm ill about the position that America is in and that we have to look at a $700 billion bailout. At the same time we know that inaction is not an option and as Senator McCain has said unless this nearly trillion dollar bailout is what it may end up to be, unless there are amendments in Paulson's proposal, really I don't believe that Americans are going to support this and we will not support this. The interesting thing in the last couple of days that I have seen is that Americans are waiting to see what John McCain will do on this proposal. They're not waiting to see what Barack Obama is going to do. Is he going to do this and see what way the political wind's blowing. They're waiting to see if John McCain will be able to see these amendments implemented in Paulson's proposal.
 
COURIC: Why do you say that? Why are they waiting for John McCain and not Barack Obama?
 
PALIN: He's got the track record of the leadership qualities and the pragmatism that's needed at a crisis time like this.
 
COURIC: But polls have shown that Senator Obama has actually gotten a boost as a result of this latest crisis with more people feeling that he can handle the situation better than John McCain?
 
PALIN: I'm not looking at poll numbers. What I think Americans at the end of the day are going to be able to go back and look at track records and see who's more apt to be talking about solutions and wishing for and hoping for solutions for some opportunity to change, and who's actually done it?
 
COURIC: If this doesn't pass, do you think there's a risk of another Great Depression?
 
PALIN: Unfortunately, that is the road that America may find itself on. Not necessarily this as it's been proposed has to pass or we're going to find ourselves in another Great Depression. There has got to be action--bipartisan effort--Congress not pointing fingers at one another but finding the solution to this, taking action, and being serious about the reforms on Wall Street that are needed.
 
COURIC: Would you support a moratorium on foreclosures to help average Americans keep their homes?
 
PALIN: That's something that John McCain and I have both been discussing whether that is part of the solution or not...you know, it's going to be a multi-faceted that has to be found here.
 
COURIC: So you haven't decided whether you'll support it or not?
 
PALIN: I have not.
 
COURIC: What are the pros and cons of it do you think?
 
PALIN: Well, some decisions that have been made poorly should not be rewarded of course.
 
COURIC: By consumers, you're saying?
 
PALIN: Consumers and those who were predator lenders also. That's, you know, that has to be considered also. But again, it's got to be a comprehensive long term solution found for this problem that America is facing today. As I say, we are getting into crisis mode here.
 
COURIC: You've said, quote, "John McCain will reform the way Wall Street does business." Other than supporting stricter regulations of Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac two years ago, can you give us any more example of his leading the charge for more oversight?
 
PALIN: I think that the example that you just cited, with his warnings two years ago about Fannie and Freddie--that, that's paramount. That's more than a heck of a lot of other senators and representatives did for us.
 
COURIC: But he's been in Congress for 26 years. He's been chairman of the powerful Commerce Committee. And he has almost always sided with less regulation, not more.
 
PALIN: He's also known as the maverick though. Taking shots from his own party, and certainly taking shots from the other party. Trying to get people to understand what he's been talking about--the need to reform government.
 
COURIC: I'm just going to ask you one more time, not to belabor the point. Specific examples in his 26 years of pushing for more regulation?
 
PALIN: I'll try to find you some and I'll bring them to you.
 


Posted: Wednesday, September 24, 2008 9:23 PM with 43 comment(s)

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dmalato2 said:

Nobody would want this uninformed person as a mere surrogate, let alone a vice president.  What a joke.

September 24, 2008 9:57 PM

jacksondyer said:

"What's More Is That She Cannot Put Together A Sentence Or, For That Matter, A Thought;"

Yea, but she is a Governor and got there on her own.

What about you?

Besides she can kick Ahmadinejad's ass, which is more than Obama could do.

September 24, 2008 10:09 PM

simon greenwood said:

Video here:

www.cbsnews.com/.../main4476173.shtml

Reading the transcript I thought the second half came across worse but in the video she seems really shaken up in the Davis section then regains her composure for the latter part

September 24, 2008 10:15 PM

jacobt1 said:

What's More Is That Obama and Biden  Cannot Put Together A Sentence Or, For That Matter, A Thought; Is This a Conspiracy to Make George Bush Seem Literate And Coherent?

September 24, 2008 10:20 PM

guptatomic1 said:

The video is devastating.  And indefensible.  Heartbeat away...

September 24, 2008 10:58 PM

jacksondyer said:

simon greenwood, are you joking? She wasn't shaken up at all.

She was trying to avoid saying what was on her mind which was the NY Times has become a real tabloid paper practicing yellow journalism.

Let's see how simon would do under the circumstances.

We know the kinds of mistakes Obama and Biden can make and they have been at it for years.

September 24, 2008 10:59 PM

boneill said:

Excellent point, Jacob!  That is the consistent knock on Obama: can't speak or think to save his life.  THose books he wrote?  Like a drunk fucking ee cummings, man.   And Biden?  Can't speak.  Could hardly put two words together.  That is the knock.

And jack, come the fuck on, my friend.  What does "kick Ahmadinejad's ass" even mean?  Like, physically?   Militarily?  You think she can handle that?   I don't think international relations are decided in the Death Ring.  

September 24, 2008 11:15 PM

jacobt1 said:

II've just watched interview. She is so much better than Obama or Biden or McCain.

September 24, 2008 11:17 PM

ironyroad said:

The level of stupidity on this thread is kind of impressive in its own sick way.

September 24, 2008 11:31 PM

WoodyBombay said:

boneill,

What jacksondyer means is "Palin is aching to press The Button and would do it without even thinking once, let alone twice." That's what he's looking for in a vapid, vicious veep.

September 24, 2008 11:45 PM

AlanSP said:

JD writes:

"Yea, but she is a Governor and got there on her own.

What about you?"

I didn't realize Marty was running for VP.  By this standard the only valid criticism of successful politicians can come from other successful politicians.

You could just as easily say "Barack Obama is a Senator and the nominee of a major party.  What about you?"  See how silly that is?

It's perfectly legitimate for Marty to criticize Palin, just like it's perfectly legitimate for me to criticize Adam Eaton and his bloated contract (even though he's a better pitcher than I could ever be)

September 24, 2008 11:56 PM

guptatomic1 said:

I am now convinced.  jacobt1 is not in fact a human being, rather a sophisticated computer program run by the RNC to provide instant propug feedback on all topics, great or small.  One has to marvel.

September 24, 2008 11:59 PM

leertracy said:

I love Jacksondyer's line of reasoning. You, dear reader, could not do any better than her. Therefore, since she can perform as well as the Average Joe, criticism of her is unwarranted. Oh. And she's a governor!

This is a great argument. Except for two things.

1) Most of us WOULD have been able to answer those questions much more intelligently. And we would have answered them in complete sentences that make some sort of sense. Anyone who does marketing presentations, sales calls... anyone who is successful in the service sector gets really good at giving the spiel and 'turning a negative into a positive.'

2) Sarah Palin won election to be governor of Alaska. Great. I guess she's qualified. TO BE GOVERNOR OF ALASKA. And if you were to have every American who was elected with the same amount of votes, all the governors, senators, congresspeople... have them all sit there in that chair? Most would have done just fine, thank you.

3) Let's pretend that Sarah actually did as well as the average intelligent American worker. Pretend. OK, so what? She's as good as the average Joe now. BFD. A president needs to be more than the average Joe.

And yes, Marty is right --  this makes me really appreciate Bush. Tonight, when Bush talked about the bailout, I was very impressed. Bush, with his MBA, clearly understands. And even when he doesn't feel comfortable, he is able to string together sentences and often skillfully evades the question, and finds an opening to hammer at his point again. He's irritating when he does it, but he does it well. You get the feeling he's being evasive. But with Bush I've never felt that he just had no clue what the hell he was talking about.

And Palin CLEARLY has no clue what she's saying. She's doing her best to recite what she's been told, but she has not had time to learn what she's talking about.  It's not her fault. McCain should never have put her in this position.

September 25, 2008 12:15 AM

thejauntyboulevardier said:

Now, as I read the latest inanities from jacobt1, I chalk it up to yet another example of this shameless McCain toady...

but jackson, I have always perceived you as someone with highest - impossibly high - intellectual thresholds, for intellectualism and reason. Yet, you somehow excuse the robotic drivel spouted by this ridiculously ill-starred, under prepared, over matched vice presidential candidate. What gives?  Why are you so exacting with talk backers - I always know that if I debate a point with you, I have to have my shit together and to be honest, your intellectual scalpel keeps me away at times - but here, on this thread, and pace marty, someone who you value and credit as a political and intellectual compadre, who take up this lost Palin cause. Chivalry?  Contrarianism? I'm askin...

what gives?....

September 25, 2008 12:22 AM

jacobt1 said:

leertracy said

"Tonight, when Bush talked about the bailout, I was very impressed. "

He's learned. He had 7 years

"And Palin CLEARLY has no clue what she's saying"

If course she doesn't have a clue. She was a busy governor with 5 children. I don't care if she doesn't know. She is learning to answer questions. Did you forget Primary debates. Usually, Obama was very mediocre.

September 25, 2008 12:36 AM

leertracy said:

jacob --

I think Bush did just fine against Gore 7 years ago. And what was impressive about Bush was clearly due to his MBA and practical experience.

There's a difference between doing poorly in debates and not being able to answer questions coherently. And again, I am not concerned with her inability to know everything.

And Obama's problem was being unfocused, getting wrapped up in his flights of fancy and illogic, losing his train of thoughts. But he was clearly addressing the question and was thinking about it. It's pretty much understood that his 'meet with foreign leaders without precondition' was a gaffe that his campaign decided to run with. But he had to express the idea clearly to begin with. Sarah can't explain herself coherently.

September 25, 2008 1:13 AM

jacobt1 said:

" Sarah can't explain herself coherently"

Give me an example, and I'll give 10 Obama's examples.

September 25, 2008 1:33 AM

rozenson said:

Jacksondyer said: "Besides she can kick Ahmadinejad's ass"

Haven't the last 8 years kind of discredited the whole "let's kick whoever's ass we feel like" style of foreign policy? I, a 19-year-old college student, carry the physical capability of ordering a nuke to be dropped on Tehran. That doesn't mean it's the proper course of action. Palin knows nothing about Iran, except that their president is a lunatic. While his lunacy is important in many ways, it's not just enough to say "Bad bearded man!" and launch yourself into a situation with incredibly complex factors.

Neither McCain nor Obama will use US forces to shut down the Iranian nuclear program. They will give Israel a green light when they feel like it's absolutely needed and give logistical support in the process.

September 25, 2008 2:53 AM

jacobt1 said:

" Palin knows nothing about Iran, except that their president is a lunatic."

Obama doesn't even know that their president is a lunatic.

September 25, 2008 3:03 AM

psantillana said:

she was not qualified to be mayor of wasilla, much less governor of alaska, much less...

look: alaskans are stupid. case closed.

September 25, 2008 6:50 AM

icarusr said:

psantillana: now that's kicking ass ;-).

September 25, 2008 9:34 AM

jacobt1 said:

He  was not qualified to be state senator  much less senator, much less...

look: Blacks  are stupid. case closed.

September 25, 2008 9:41 AM

timteeter said:

When certain commenters are reduced to "kickin' ass" (and taking names, perhaps?) or "Well, *your* guy is incoherent, too, nyah nyah," there is no longer any reason to take them seriously.  If the best they can come up with is "so's your old man," then it's time to move on.

Honestly, I don't know why anyone responds to these people any more.  I certainly won't in the future.

September 25, 2008 9:52 AM

blackton said:

jacob, fuck off. If you were a man and not some snot nosed teenager I would gladly kick your ass, there is a world of difference between saying Alaskans are stupid and blacks are stupid. I lived in Jersey, making fun of New Jersey is fine, if the joke is funny I will laugh, 99% of people in NJ will. Make fun of blacks, or hispanics, or Asians, I will rain fire on your pathetic little ass.

You are simply and utterly an asshole for that statement.

September 25, 2008 10:20 AM

Wandreycer1 said:

I disagree leetracy that this is not Palin's fault - she was beyond narcissistic to take the offer.  She'd probably perform brain surgery on your kid if you let her.  She's a sociopath.

September 25, 2008 10:21 AM

jacobt1 said:

When certain commenters are reduced to "alaskans are stupid" (and taking names, perhaps?) or "Well, *your* guy has a broken hand and can't type, there is no longer any reason to take them seriously.  

Honestly, I don't know why anyone responds to these people any more.  but I will for fun.

September 25, 2008 10:24 AM

thejauntyboulevardier said:

jacobt1

Initially, I gave you a modicum of talk back respect despite your annoying habit of posting ridiculous opinion and inane non sequiturs.

Over the past month, you have been reduced to less than a gadfly status.

Today, you sink to the level of an unreconstructed bigot. Whomever you are, man or beast, you are no longer deserving even a peretzian scintilla of respect or response. Per Blackie, let me say that your last comment should earn you the tnr boot and if I ever meet you personally, I will remind you of this comment and challenge you to say that to me...face to face.  

At least eos, who is a McCain partisan, has had the decency to leave the tnr party over the past week or so, since McCain's Palin bubble has burst and he starting sinking like a stone.

Your post jacob, are now nothing more than the ravings of a juvenile, bigoted, idee fixed mind, taking pleasure in pissing on tnr's front lawn.

September 25, 2008 11:33 AM

debbrodie@optonline.net said:

I note that you guys are fired up and ready to go again. Your commentary lost some   mysogonist  verve over the past month or so after Hillary was not around to hit on and get it up for. I can tell those juices are flowing again with palpitating Palin pounding. I can't wait to hear more... and she's not even running for president! Way to keep your eyes on the ball, or should I say boobs? I will bet you now that throughout this financial crisis, the majority of your comments will concern Sarah Palin.

September 25, 2008 11:53 AM

TLaBorn said:

I am really sick and tired of any criticism of Sarah Palin being considered sexist.  This has absolutely nothing to do with her being a woman.  She fails to present any logic in any of her discussions.  She sticks to memorized talking points to answer questions.  The scary thing is they are not even answers they are just some half-whit ramblings from a person who has no clue about the topic.

If Sarah would at least say "I don't know" instead of "I think that McCain is a Maverick and because of this ppl will come to understand that he has the potential to be potentially extra special as the president."

^ not a real quote from her but it is exactly the style of answer she gives to everything.  If she were a man, black, white, orange, blue,  purple, or a green martian she would still come across as an inexperienced dunce.

September 25, 2008 12:54 PM

rlgordonma said:

jacobtl:

"Give me an example, and I'll give 10 Obama's examples."

I think Marty just gave you one hell of an example.  Charlie Gibson, another.  These are not sound bite examples, meaningless gaffes.  These are the extended outputs from someone with NO INTEREST in the issues, reciting back platitudes like she would had she been forced to cram for a college class she didn't like.

God only knows why she accepted this offer to run as a VP.  Prediction: she will return to Alaska finished, humiliated, and her poll numbers wayyyy down.  

Now, those Obama examples, where he looks exactly as uninformed and uninterested as Palin?  Please o please take time out your busy day to show us.

September 25, 2008 1:25 PM

jacobt1 said:

"acob, fuck off. If you were a man and not some snot nosed teenager I would gladly kick your ass, there is a world of difference between saying Alaskans are stupid and blacks are stupid."

Both are despicable  

September 25, 2008 1:56 PM

boneill said:

Yeah, debbrodie- can you point to one thing- one thing?- that is sexist about that?  I know you made a killed argument by saying "get it up" and "boobs".  That totally burnt me and was wicked emasculating.   But I am going to still reluctantly ask you to provide a single sentence that was mysoginistic about that, unless any criticism of a woman is unacceptable.

You might also notice some critique of McCain on these pages.  Granted, as a white man I am horrified and feel personally slighted.  But I hold my tongue.

September 25, 2008 2:27 PM

jacobt1 said:

Can you point to one thing- one thing?- that is racist  about anything Clinton said  about Obama?

September 25, 2008 2:42 PM

boneill said:

Jacob, as people have explained to you time and time again, in an adorable attempt to get you to listen, Clinton was playing with race heavily in South Carolina, when he compared Obama to the black bogeyman, Jesse Jackson.   Many people won SC in various primaries.  Bill picked a comparison to the one who was black and whom white people tend to hate.  HIllary played a similar card in saying "we have the majroity of hard-working Americans, white Americans" on their side.  

Now.  Rebut.  Do so with actual arguments.  Not assertions, not copy-and-paste hackjobs.   Don't merely say "anything Clinton camp say Obama say racist".   Make an actual argument.  I totally double-dog dare you.

September 25, 2008 3:04 PM

debbrodie@optonline.net said:

I was asked to provide one sentence that was sexist in the above comments. Fair enough. I am asking one thing , try to honestly amd maturely stay neutral instead of getting defensive as I was accused of.(sorry about ending with a proposition) . Picture a relatively unknown guy  govenor who was picked to be VP  by either candidate. Would you honestly use the following words to discribe his inexperience and untested(true) intelligence... VAPID, VICIOUS,HAS NO CLUE,PRETEND HE IS AS SMART AS THE AVERAGE WORKER,BEYOND NARCISSISTIC, RIDICUOUSLY ILL-STARRED, INCOHERENT DUNCE, SPEAKS DRIVEL , WILL BE HUMILIATED(I HAVE NEVER HEARD A MAN SAY THAT ABOUT ANOTHER MAN), CALLED A MUSLIM "BAD-BEARDED MAN", AND ACCUSE A GUY WHO SUPPORTS THIS FICTICOUS MAN OF CHIVALRY. Honestly, you are all too adroit verbally to use some of these blatant and admittedly not so blatant references. Next time, please make your case, but proof your attacks with a man in mind so any bias is political and not gender-based.

September 25, 2008 6:08 PM

boneill said:

I've read here and many times those words used to describe...

Vapid- Bush, Obama

Vicious: Bush, Cheney, McCain

No Clue: Bush, McCain

Pretend He is as Smart as the Average Worker: Bush

Beyond Narcisissitic: Obama (as many say)

Incoherent Dunce: Current Occupant, so many times

Will Be Humiliated: I know I was giddy about McCain picking Romney, and said "humiliated" many, many times in context of him debating Biden.  

I really want to know what words can we use for someone so obviously, embarassingly ill-prepared for this.   I honestly don't see those as being anything other than gender-neutral.   How is "speaks drivel" sexist?  What other word would you use to explain what she has been saying?  I haven't read "bitchy" or "castrating" or "shrill" or "ragging" or anything like that (which people were saying about Hillary).  

September 25, 2008 7:28 PM

boneill said:

OK

September 26, 2008 12:17 AM

noga1 said:

All Greece hates

the still eyes in the white face,

the lustre of olives

where she stands,

and the white hands.

All Greece reviles

the wan face when she smiles,

hating it deeper still

when it grows wan and white,

remembering past enchantments

and past ills.

Greece sees unmoved,

God's daughter, born of love,

the beauty of cool feet

and slenderest knees,

coul love indeed the maid,

only if she were laid,

white ash amid funereal cypresses.

(H.D.)

September 26, 2008 10:08 AM

debbrodie@optonline.net said:

boneill, I will take you at your word that vapid, etc. have been used on these blogs describing males. I am going to ask you one more time to suspend reality and enter my world. All leaders of this country during its entire lifetime are references to male gender instead of person, and you finally you hear "her" in the sentences of commentators and see two females near the glass ceiling. Might you be sensitive to the over the top flaying they are constantly getting from media and blogs. I was an elected official accused of having an affair with  the mayor(she was a woman), I am on utube being called a cunt, bitch,health teacher(duh) just because I was supporting Hillary Clinton. So, yeh, I may be over-protective and extra sensitive. I am just asking that you try to understand that. PS Call her  ill-informed, but maybe hold off on complete dunce , vicious, etc. until she 'earns it". She's only been at this for 4 weeks.

September 26, 2008 1:03 PM

basman said:

With Couric, she was terrible: inarticulate, dumb and thoughtless.

I have tried to give her the widest and longest benefit of the doubt. But I cannot sustain that benefit any longer.

On the heart beat away criterion, which has to, in a principled way, rank way up there as far as criteria go, she is proving a dismal choice, which all goes to make McCain seem reckless and entirely self seeking, right at a place where campaigning and substance come together, ie where you cannot in a principled way separate the campaign from the eventual holding of office.

It is all very troubling to a notional voter such as myself who has great doubts about Obama and who finds McCaim attractive.

September 26, 2008 2:27 PM

boneill said:

Deb-  fair enough (more than fair, actually).  I apologize for being incivil.   What happened to you is awful, and I understand where you are coming from.  I still don't feel like I should hold back on being derogatory to someone I feel would be monstrously bad for the country, but I also am coming from a wildly different position than you.   I do think she is more than ill-informed, and her convention speech was one of the more vicious displays of cheap politics I have ever seen (community organizers don't do anything!).   But perhaps there is the need for some more decency.  

cheers,

boneill

September 26, 2008 2:33 PM

basman said:

Nogal:

Herein the entire crticial spectrum of imagism from its sheer beauty to its artifice as llifelessness:

Whirl up, sea—

Whirl your pointed pines.

Splash your great pines

On our rocks.

Hurl your green over us—

Cover us with your pools of fir

at one end of the spectrum to:

I

Clear water in a brilliant bowl,

Pink and white carnations. The light

In the room more like a snowy air,

Reflecting snow. A newly-fallen snow

At the end of winter when afternoons return.

Pink and white carnations---one desires

So much more than that. The day itself

Is simplified: a bowl of white,

Cold, a cold porcelain, low and round,

With nothing more than the carnations there.

II

Say even that this complete simplicity

Stripped one of all one's torments, concealed

The evilly compounded, vital I

And made it fresh in a world of white,

A world of clear water, brilliant-edged,

Still one would want more, one would need more,

More than a world of white and snowy scents.

III

There would still remain the never-resting mind,

So that one would want to escape, come back

To what had been so long composed.

The imperfect is our paradise.

Note that, in this bitterness, delight,

Since the imperfect is so hot in us,

Lies in flawed words and stubborn sounds.

with the third stanza summing up my view of life, Machiavelli and Sarah Palin.

September 26, 2008 3:01 PM

debbrodie@optonline.net said:

boneill, I agree. Thanks for listening and responding. I feel better already.

September 26, 2008 4:44 PM

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