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COLUMNISTS
TODAY'S STORIES
15.09.2008
Obama: Right on ROTC

Barack Obama has once again disappointed a core group of his enthusiasts. It happened at Columbia University open forum where both he and Senator McCain spoke and which attracted some 7500 students. In the ordinary course of events, McCain came out for reinstating ROTC as a program on the Columbia campus and under the jurisdiction of the Columbia faculty. He was roundly booed. What would you expect.

But, then, Obama also spoke on the issue, and he said pretty much what McCain said. This did not surprise me at all. It is an expression of his understanding the essentials of democratic life. That we need a military is axiomatic. That we need a bright and curious military follows from this first principle. Columbia does not allow ROTC on campus. It was banished from the Morningside Heights when the trustees, under pressure from (violent) students caved and simply caved. Columbia students who want some military training must go to Fordham University for their classes. Do you wonder why many Roman Catholics think that the educated elite are not shouldering their rightful burden? At Harvard, 40 years ago, as a member of the faculty I dimply recall also voting for a similar exile for ROTC students, who had to go to MIT to fulfill their responsibilities. Faculties used to be craven. Now, they are merely prone to cling to their old and unjust biases.

In 2003, students at Columbia voted 65% to restore ROTC, the "roar lion roar." When the matter came before the Columbia senate in 2005, Lee Bollinger, the squirmy academic caught between generations, joined the professoriate in rejecting the very notion. All of this is described in an article by Bari Weiss in today's Sun.

There is nothing surprising about Bollinger's position. He's scared of his faculty. What's more: he is stuck in the sixties. He's for almost every retro idea that still poisons universities.

Two more points:

1. The "don't ask, don't tell" ignominy has very much complicated the issue of patriotism on the campus. It is an issue, however, that should be fought on its own since it applies to every military institution in the country. And I want to know what MCain and Obama think about this one. It goes to the very principle of equality of rights and equality of duties.

2. A few years back ran two articles about campuses without professors who have served in the military and fought in wars. Andrew Delbanco wrote about Columbia and Anthony Grafton wrote about Princeton.

Posted: Monday, September 15, 2008 4:56 PM with 17 comment(s)

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basman said:

September 15, 2008 5:14 PM

benjamin81 said:

I think it would be very desirable for top-tier institutions like Columbia, Harvard, and Chicago to restore their ROTC programs, for the reasons Marty mentions and more. My understanding is that a President Obama would do away with "don't ask, don't tell," making that a moot point. Some would still protest ROTC activities on campus, but many would be happy to accede in that case. McCain, on the other hand, would just let that particular open wound fester.

September 15, 2008 5:39 PM

michael said:

Trivia: Many believe Notre Dame would have folded during WWII had not ROTC (Navy) filled the void. ND can be intolerant on a list of issues but even during the vitriolic '60's the ROTC program was safe. They see it as a debt that will never be repaid so an anomaly may exist.

September 15, 2008 5:47 PM

jacksondyer said:

"In the ordinary course of events, McCain came out for reinstating ROTC as a program on the Columbia campus and under the jurisdiction of the Columbia faculty. He was roundly booed. What would you expect..."

What would I expect? A sense of civility from students and faculty of one of out top Colleges?

This is the crowd let's not forget that didn't boo Ahmadinejad!

September 15, 2008 6:36 PM

jacksondyer said:

On a more important issue,  can we have replay of the primaries?

We need new candidates all around. We need someone who knows a lot about foreign policy at the top of the ticked. McCain and Biden would do, however, we need someone who is knowledgeable about economics at the top or the bottom of the ticket. Neither Obama nor Palin answer to that description.

September 15, 2008 6:41 PM

cthulhu2008 said:

Roman Catholics may also look at the words of one Joshua ben Joseph:

"You have heard that it was said, 'An eye for an eye, and a tooth for a tooth.' But I tell you, do not resist an evil person. If someone strikes you on the right cheek, turn to him the other also. And if someone wants to sue you and take your tunic, let him have your cloak as well. If someone forces you to go one mile, go with him two miles. Give to the one who asks you, and do not turn away from the one who wants to borrow from you."

September 15, 2008 6:52 PM

jacksondyer said:

cthulhu2008,

What happens if someone cuts off your head, do you give him your other head?

September 15, 2008 7:18 PM

AlanSP said:

jackson writes,

"This is the crowd let's not forget that didn't boo Ahmadinejad!"

They did in fact boo Ahmadinejad:  See www.telegraph.co.uk/.../President-Ahmadinejad-booed-at-US-university.html or www.pbs.org/.../iran_10-01.html

And yeah, Marty, Obama, and McCain are all right on this one.

September 15, 2008 8:00 PM

Nippers said:

jacksondyer:

Don't want to speak for cthulhu but it seemed to me the point here is that Roman Catholics as a group tend to be more conflicted about war, especially wars that the Pope himself condemns, than Marty's post suggests. I can speak personally. I have devout Catholics in my family who voted for Bush and are now defecting because of the war.

More importantly, the "don't ask, don't tell" policy cannot be so easily separated from the matter of ROTC since it comes into legal conflict with nondiscrimination policies. My understanding is that in order to reinstate ROTC at Columbia you'd have to scrap one or the other--the nondiscrimination policy, or the "don't ask, don't tell" policy.

Obama, rightly, is proposing to scrap the latter. McCain, fancifully, is not proposing to scrap either one.

September 16, 2008 12:11 AM

butchie b said:

Hate to break this to y'all, but President Obama cannot simply "do away" with don't ask, don't tell.  The Congress writes the Uniform Code of Military Justice (Title 10, US Code) wherein the policy resides.  It is still the case that sodomy is a crime, and that an open homosexual is presumed to commit sodomy.

The policy can be changed, but not unilaterally.  I personally hope he goes right to work on it, and blow up the first 6 months of his term, just like Billy did.

September 16, 2008 11:49 AM

gnathan said:

As someone who has gone through the ROTC system, I think that I'm qualified (unlike a lot of blowhards like Obama) to comment on it. ROTC, as I knew it, was a conscription system. One had no choice during one's first two years of college whether or not to join it. Conscription is, of course, necessary because unless one generates a bunch of troops to command, there is no way to generate an officer corps to command them. Make ROTC voluntary and you will have more chiefs than Indians. I'm sure colleges liked the program because it brought in Federal dollars. The long and the short of it is that if you're a big fan of conscription, then ROTC is for you. As I recall, we already have a system for those who would like to join the military without enlisting in the regular services. It's called the National Guard. TThe Guard has been every much abused by our president to serve purposes it was never intended to serve. It's there for defense of country, stupid. Not for waging wars of our own making. The same applied to ROTC during the Vietnam War. Graduates of ROTC joined the regular army at the rank of second lieutenant. They became one of the principal sources of cannon fodder in that war. The fewer tools we have for waging war, the better off we'll be. We have more than enough troops as is. Some are stationed in such useless places as Germany and many are doing clerical and similar jobs that civilians could do. In sum, if you want conscription riots at universities, just try to reinstate ROTC.

September 16, 2008 1:42 PM

AlanSP said:

"It is still the case that sodomy is a crime, and that an open homosexual is presumed to commit sodomy."

Actually, I don't think either part of that statement is true (unless by "crime" you're including violations of the military code, and even then, the law is written such that sodomy per se doesn't get you booted out if you aren't gay).  I'm not an expert, but I was under the impression that sodomy laws were struck down in 2003 in Lawrence v. Texas.

Repealing don't ask don't tell isn't a priority with things like health care, the tax code, and two wars to deal with, but it's something that should be done.

September 16, 2008 1:57 PM

butchie b said:

gnathan, you're old.  ROTC has not been the system you describe since the 50s.  I'm an ROTC grad ('79) and it was (and is) totally voluntary for the first 2 years.  At some point the cadet signs a contract that puts some obligations on him in return for a small stipend.  In fact, NO ONE is forced to join - ever!

Graduates are commissioned in their chosen service as a 2LT (Ensign), and are required to serve (usually) 4 years mostly, but not always, on active duty.  It's a good system.

September 16, 2008 2:30 PM

butchie b said:

No, Alan, the law against sodomy is still there, but doesn't get ENFORCED if you're not gay.  State sodomy laws may have been struck down, but I don't think that the UCMJ was affected by Lawrence v. Texas.

September 16, 2008 2:32 PM

AlanSP said:

"No, Alan, the law against sodomy is still there, but doesn't get ENFORCED if you're not gay."

Again, I'm not a lawyer, and this is really just splitting hairs at this point, but looking at the relevant part of the UCMJ www.law.cornell.edu/.../654.html , it's written into the law that you don't get discharged if you're found to not be gay.

September 16, 2008 2:52 PM

jacksondyer said:

Nippers said:  "jacksondyer:  Don't want to speak for cthulhu but it seemed to me the point here is that Roman Catholics as a group tend to be more conflicted about war, especially wars that the Pope himself condemns, than Marty's post suggests..."

What you say may be true, but that doesn't change anything. There are plenty of Rabbis who also get intoxicated by the pacifist message in the Torah. That doesn't mean that there aren't real enemies out there that we have to fight.

As for the "don't ask don't tell" issue. I don't think that would work.

Better to either allow gay men and women to serve openly or keep the system  as it is.

Don't ask don't tell will just lead to confusion and a lot of fights based on misunderstandings. I served in armed forces and I know where of a speak.

September 16, 2008 6:13 PM

AlanSP said:

Jackson,

I'm not sure what you mean.  As I understand it, "don't ask, don't tell" *is* the current policy, as it has been since 1993.

September 16, 2008 7:45 PM

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