I don't think we've seen the last of Hillary's effect on the Obama campaign. Hopefully, it'll be good but I'm not so sure. Whenever Obama's veep gets announced, if it's not Hillary, the media will drag us through days, possibly weeks of  chatter that's nothing but a big distraction for Obama. And if she's picked, only God knows how that plays out. Good luck, Barack.

It's hard to understand for Clinton haters, but Clinton was a very strong candidate. She was much better than Obama  in all debates. Obama has to choose a VP who would be at least as strong as Clinton. If he choose somebody like Edwards who will not be good in debates,  it will be a disaster for Obama.

I'm rooting for Hagel.  I know he's a ferocious winger and all, but he's very cute.  I wouldn't mind seeing him on the front page of the NYT every day with that Clint Eastwood scowl (sorry Senator C, nothing personal).

The title refers to Marty's interest in the Presidential race -- regardless of what else he might write about it, all he truly cared about (but not enough to shell out any money for -- what, you think he cares --that-- much?) was the defeat of Hillary Clinton.  

Wandreceyer -- please tell me you're joking. Don't let his Iraq criticism fool you, he's a winger all right.

Oh I know, Hage's a beast.  But a handsome one.  And I was joking (about the Veep part).

just trying to lighten it up, I know Hillary folk are going to be on the defense today. I'm glad the wondering is over, they have to be fed up.  I have no desire to pick at anyone, leave it alone already Marty.

Lymon- dead on.  Absolutely dead on.  It was all about Hillary for Marty.   He is gleeful over her "finis".  

Jake, you are right that he needs a strong VP choice (although I am not sure when that is eve rnot the case).  What do you think about Biden?

"What do you think about Biden"

No way.

His only reminding claim to presidency is his judgment about the war.

How can he choose a VP with such a bad judgment?

If Hillary helps Obama get elected, take her. Just win baby.

I don't take it kindly that people around here are still trying to bash Hillary.  When will you get over it?  I posted on an earlier stream here that she needs to publicly take herself out of the running or Obama will get heat for not choosing her.  She should make this one last sacrifice for the team.  She needs to take the high road.  This way, Obama doesn't have to be blamed for not choosing her.  Her deal: supreme court justice!  BTW, for those of you intent on kicking her to the curb, get a life.  

"posted on an earlier stream here that she needs to publicly take herself out of the running or Obama will get heat for not choosing her. "

what would be her justification?

- She is too good for Obama

--She is not good enough for Obama.

- She wants spend more time with family.

"I don't take it kindly that people around here are still trying to bash Hillary."

With the possible exception of Mr. Peretz, who in this thread bashed Hillary?  

And if you're looking for MP to show any sort of respect for either Clinton, I'm afraid you're barking up the wrong tree.

True Jacob, she'd have to fabricate quite a story.  If your questions/statements are serious, she could simply say her work for NY (or for certain causes) in the senate is crucial, much like Webb did in Virginia...or that the Dems need to keep a demo congress etc.  If your questions/statements are sarcatsic, then I think you should consider the problem for Obama: he is having trouble with women.  www.realclearpolitics.com/.../obamas_women_problem.html

If he snubs her as VP-- which he will-- he'll pay a price.  I know Hillary gets the raw deal here if she takes herself out (in one respect), but in another, she secures an opportunity for a power move in an Obama admin.  

Aeromonas: Peretz and Scrubby fit the bill.  Don't patronize me, claiming I expect Peretz to do an about-face on Hillary.  Maybe you should call him out for his disrespect instead of chiding me for what you perceive as my "wish" that he somehow comes around to her.  

Time for another brief hibernation-interrupt according to this article in the NYT by Adam Nagourney (via Taylor), titled:Chance of an Obama-Clinton Ticket Is Seen as Increasingly Unlikely No wonder TNR's Marty Peretz - an Establishment smear merchant

Tammy,

Scrubby was just talking about the political effects on the Obama campaign if Hillary is (or is not) chosen. It was not Hillary-bashing. As for Mr. Peretz, well that's another story.

Ok Hemlock.  I re-read Scrubby's post.  I trust you, but what about this line in his/her post:

"And if she's picked, only God knows how that plays out. Good luck, Barack."  

Thoughts?

I took it to be a comment about how Obama's choosing her would "play out" in the media. The comment flirts with the implication that such a choice might not play out well for Obama, meaning, I think, that the media could create and then endlessly press a negative narrative around the choice (e.g. "Obama abandons his 'new politics' and cynically picks Clinton in order to bribe her female supporters," etc. It could be accompanied by lots of "analysis/commentary/speculation" on what their real feelings are toward each other in the wake of the brutal primary, and endless revisiting of various things they said (especially Clinton) about each other in the primary. (E.g. "McCain has a lifetime of experience and Barack has a speech.") Scrubby's comment, on its own, doesn't say that such media reaction would be legitimate.

Okay, I have to get back to the other blogs now. I try not to come over to the Spine, since Peretz is such a bigoted hate-mongering screed-artist. (I'm violating my own private/informal "boycott" of his blog by being here, but your reference on the Stump drew me over.)

Thanks Hem.  I'm gonna take your advice and fly back to the other blogs as well.  I'm sooooooo tired of Hillary bashing.  In fact, I'm almost sure that I will not renew my subscription to TNR because of the hate and disrespect paid to her here by LIBERALS and PROGRESSIVES.  I expected as much from Repubs, but not from those of my own ilk.  She did some things wrong, but the totality of her comes down solidly on the positive side.  History will note this and as far as I'm concerned, she's already been vindicated for her supposed "wrongs."  

You misread me, Tammy. I was not bashing Hillary. Even during the primaries when passion was very high, I never bashed her. I complained in my posts then about her campaign which I thought was negatively over the line especially in the last two months of the primary but I NEVER bashed her. I respect her toughness,  and had defended her for years. She was my choice but I switched to Obama once he announced his candidacy. And I'm begining to wish that Obama would run her take-no-prisoner hardball style campaign against the GOP. Really.

Hemlock defence of my post was spot on. Thanks, Hem.

Now Tammy, wouldn't you agree that just as there are some vile Hillary hatred and bashing, there are also some of the same nonsense coming from her supporters against Obama. Have you ever, anywhere, complained against them?

"If he snubs her as VP -- which he will -- he'll pay a price."  That's almost blackmail. Does he not have, or earned, the right to fashion his campaign (VP choice included) in any way he deems wise? Seems to me it's still all about Hillary, or am I wrong?

Scrubby.  Thanks for clarifying.  I was behind Clinton too in the primary but now switched to Obama.  I can be critical of him sometimes, because he's disappointed me and I am pissed he doesn't have a bigger lead in the polls.  I don't agree with those Hillary supporters who are being so resistant now.  Like Clinton, I want them to endorse Obama.  But they seem to be stubborn and there are plenty of them.  That's why I want her to quash her own VP possibility.  I see this as the only way to prevent even more backlash from those headstrong Hillary supporters and perhaps another way she can move more people toward Obama.  Let's be honest, he doesn't want her as VP and of course, he should be able to pick someone he can work with.  He's earned his own choice.  I'm confident it will be a white male.  It can't be anyone else.

Plus I agree with you about Obama adopting Hillary's hardball tactics.  She warned peeps about the brutality of Repub attacks.  The swift-boating is in progress.   He can't make the Kerry mistake of not playing hardball.  With all due respect to Obama, he throws counter punches, not first punches.  He needs to throw more first punches.  Now since Obama's campaign team is so smart, I'm sure they can figure out a way to do this without "doing politics as usual."  

Finally, don't ask me here at TNR-- with the history of anti-Hillary bullshit in the primary and continuing today-- to bash the candidate I endorsed.  Maybe my pride gets in the way of that.  I'm human.  I've admitted she made mistakes, that she needs to take care of her own campaign debt, etc.  But the most critical I can be about her supporters, those who still hang on and resist Obama, is that they will regret it and are being unreasonable.  I understand their pain, but they need to move on quickly.