Hate to picky old chap, but she was born five years *before* Hillary climbed Everest.  

And the Edmund Hillary thing is a perfectly defensible statement. That's exactly the kind of thing a father might tell his young daughter when she hears her own name in the news. You can't fault people for failing to adequately fact-check every family story their parents ever told.

Plus, so what?  That is harmless- more harmless than the "Is Obama a professor" time-waster.  

Rhubarbs said:  "And the Edmund Hillary thing is a perfectly defensible statement."

as ratner star said she was born in 46 or 47, I think, and Edmund Hillary climbed Mt. Everst in the early 50's.

Now let's count the lies Obama told:

he lied about his relation to Antoin "Tony" Rezko, he lied abut his relation to Wright till he was forced to confront it. These are substantive and not just narcissistic self aggrandizing les.

What else did he lied about?

Obama supporters can’t tell the difference, can they, Mr. Peretz?

Didn't Obama write a biography in which he discussed his relationship with Wright?  How does this constitute a lie?  Some commenters on this blog are themselves clearly liers, most likely also having their pants on fire.

Yeah, jackson has an interesting definition of "lie," since apparently it includes telling the truth consistently over a period of 13 years, including in a book.

It's a shame jackson can't seem to tell the difference between "I don't like Obama's relationship with Wright" and "Obama lied about his relationship with Wright."

I am with Rhub about the Hillary item, that is about as close to meaningless as possible. I mean, even if she were named after Edmund Hillary what does that mean? How can that possibly help her campaign unless she is trying to drum up the mountaineer vote, or that key demographic ex-kiwis that are now Americans (there is a rumor they might be able to fill a conference hall in a Marriot). But I agree at heart she is a liar, I have a friend who lies even when the lie is completely unimportant (maybe he thinks he is getting something over on me, I don't know), I don't think this makes her a bad person but it has made her a weak candidate.

Rhubarbs said   "Yeah, jackson has an interesting definition of "lie," since apparently it includes telling the truth consistently over a period of 13 years, including in a book"

In good Obamabite fashion you kid yourself.

Obama first said that he was unaware of Wright's hateful comments, then during his speech he said he was aware of them, but didn't take them seriously.

There are other such  little lies if you care go dig for them. I don't.

Where's Molly?  I thought she'd be wallowing in this thread.

Obama tells a whopper -- that after twenty years his ears were innocent of the preachments of  the Rev. Wright, "My spiritual mentor." (I love the Obamaphiles who talk about all the community services that Wright's church does.  Yeah, they and Hamas.)

So, the cadres get to work.  Sure 'nuf, without the Clinton campaign's uttering a peep about the flap, hack pundits (Peretz and the Plank, Baker, etc.) mobilize, not only to defend the indefensible, but to unleash a preëmptive strike of attack pieces portraying HRC as some kind of latter-day Ananias.

Obama lies about something important, and he gets a pass.  Hillary says something debatable about being in danger in Bosnia (as if the mere act of going there wasn't dangerous) (Sheryl Crow is mysteriously silent.  Did the Clintons pay for her silence?) or whether she's really sincere about loving the Yankees.  Now she's...she's an even bigger liar than...than....

Of course, the undeniable fact -- THE REAL ISSUE -- is that Hillary's travels have given her important personal contacts in officialdom all over the world.  This is very important for a chief executive.  Neveretheless, it escapes the ken of the Obama twit.  That Baker and Peretz attempt to belittle it by spurious nitpicking reflects their own pettiness, narcissism and besottedness.

What's happening now is worthy of a John Waters treatment.  Marty, you are sooooo Divine.

Calling people liers without justification, is seemingly all fun in games in the brave new world of cyberspace.  Maybe for some, but in my book it makes you look like fool.

Marty, much as I enjoy all the musing on an election that's already over, Barack Obama is the 44th president, you think someone at TNR could do a story or at the very least a few blog postings about the explosion of chaos death and destruction which is happening right now in Iraq. There's a meltdown happening in that country which really isn't being covered effectively, part of a continuing failure on the part of US journalism in regard to the occupation.

 Given your own interest in the Middle East, I would think you should been able to convince the owners of this publication to invest in the hiring a correspondent that would constantly be on the move between Iraq, Israel, Afghanistan and Pakistan. Perhaps then TNR could give us some real insight into the the situation that we're not getting elsewhere.  You could just pick out one of your staff members and give him a plane ticket.

I vote for Michael Crowley, I like the cut of his jib journalistically speaking, and I think he should be kept away from the filthy swine at the networks, elements which can only have a deleterious and degenerative influence on him.  Give Mikey a little more exposure to the REAL world and he could develop into a superior journalist.  

eharder2, you're right.  "Liar" seems to be a facile charge in these precincts.

I like the idea of the TNR sending someone to cover the MId East.  Michael Crowley is also a good choice, but anyone but left wing British prig would do.

Here is an amusing story about the British mindset on the Mid East:

"Anchor quits Al-Jazeera, cites anti-American tone"

The Associated Press

Friday, March 28, 2008

"NEW YORK: Former "Nightline" reporter Dave Marash has quit Al-Jazeera English, saying Thursday his exit was due in part to an anti-American bias at a network that is little seen in this country.

Marash said he felt that attitude more from British administrators than Arabs at the Qatar-based network.

Marash was the highest-profile American TV personality hired when the English language affiliate to Al-Jazeera was started two years ago in an attempt to compete with CNN and the BBC. He said there was a "reflexive adversarial editorial stance" against Americans at Al-Jazeera English.

"Given the global feelings about the Bush administration, it's not surprising," Marash said.

But he found it "became so stereotypical, so reflexive" that he got angry.

Marash, who's being replaced by former CNN International host Shihab Rattansi, said he was the last American-accented anchor at the network, which broadcasts from Washington, London, Kuala Lumpur and Doha, Qatar. He said there are more Canadians than Americans working at the Washington office."

www.iht.com/.../printfriendly.php

I gotta say, Mr. Peretz's Obamaphilia sure has shaken up the peanut gallery here at the Spine!  What's a guy like jacksondwyer to do now that 75% of Spine posts are pushing a line that's anathema to him?

I feel for you jackson, I really do.  It's like when you're a pack-a-day smoker and you cop some nasty chest infection and for a solid month smoking is like inhaling razor blades.  You WANT to smoke, but you simply can't.  And it sucks.  But have no fear, like a bout of bronchitis, Marty's Obama fascination will pass.  Unless--dare I say it--Obama gets himself elected.

Strange, isn't it, how millions of people in this country still favor Hillary?  I guess we must all be wicked or stupid.

"I love the Obamaphiles who talk about all the community services that Wright's church does. Yeah, they and Hamas."

Wow, someone who cannot tell the difference between the UCC and Hamas. I'm sure Israel is grateful to have someone with that kind of judgment looking out for its interests here in the U.S. of A.

Amen, Aaron Brown.  I'm getting bored of Wright.  Thought TNR is more of an opinion journal and they don't seem to do much first-hand reporting here.  I certainly agree all this coverage, as addicted to it as I am, is getting tiresome.  How long is it 'til Pennsylvania?  Help!

To Jim.  "Wallowing," one of my favorite words.  Use it all the time, often when I'm arguing with you.  Really, there's little to say to your post.  Nothing that Rhubarbs, one of TNR's best posters, hasn't said.  But I'm glad you missed me.  Nothing here is personal.  And remember, much as I like sparring with you, I've also agreed with you on multiple occasions.  So let's not get to a point of no return, O.K?

Also, surely you jest about Hillary's credibility re: FP.  So she tea-partied with a bunch of foreign dignitaries.       She has "contacts."  Uhh, unless I'm mistaken, once Obama becomes president, these "contacts" will be more dying to set up a lunch with him--isn't that what contacts are for?  Don't forget, too, that the former Irish PM has come out and disputed Hillary's claims to having helped out during the peace process.  Asking whether a dignitary wants one or two lumps will come very naturally to Michelle Obama who, by the way, has no interest in attending Obama's cabinet meetings and who will make no such preposterous claims as has Hillary.

Finally, regarding Bosnia, are you at all insinuating that the Secret Service would have allowed such a trip if they thought the first lady would be in any kind of peril?  This area had area had already been secured.  I can admit that Wright that Wright's message--though not his good works--is despicable.  Is it at all possible to concede that Hillary told a bald-faced (and cringe-worthy) lie?  

"Asking whether a dignitary wants one or two lumps will come very naturally to Michelle Obama who, by the way, has no interest in attending Obama's cabinet meetings and who will make no such preposterous claims as has Hillary."

No?

Didn't she claim that there was nothing to be proud of in the US till her husband ran for President?

This kind of thinking seems natural to someone who listens to the Reverend Wright.

Rhubarbs, of course I know the difference.  I can also pick up an analogy.   I'm disappointed -- you're usually much better than that dishonest non-sequitur.  

And I'd certainly be better than you at defending Israel if I can see "community service" as a smokescreen for a mailgn agenda.  If you see the agenda of this UCC as community services rather than the black militancy preached by its imam and which Obama, by attending, panders to, then dream on.

Jackson, it appears that Obama finesses Michelle as artfully as he does Wright.  Let's see, she's a loose cannon whom I've lived with for 20 years, but I pay her no mind (except when she's directing my career).

A Wright alumnus speaks:

"What we've learned over this year is that hope is making a comeback. It is making a comeback, and let me tell you something, for the first time in my adult lifetime, I'm really proud of my country, and not just because Barack has done well, but because I think people are hungry for change. And I have been desperate to see our country moving in that direction and just not feeling so alone in my frustration and disappointment."   Michelle Obama, Pride in America Speech

Jackson:  "Didn't she claim that there was nothing to be proud of in the US till her husband ran for President?"  What does that have to do with the price of eggs?

Is Michelle Obama a  Winnie Mandela in the making?

What Michelle Obama had to say isn't nearly as ridiculous as the things that Hillary says all the time, and Michelle isn't the candidate, Hillary is.

I think that what Michelle intended with the use of "really" was the idea that, for the first time, she could feel proud of her country without also feeling disappointed and frustrated at the unfulfilled promise.  To believe that the time has come when a black man can be elected president gives hope that our problems, in particular the persistent racial divided, are not insoluble.  Thus, it is an occasion for unalIoyed pride.  I often have the same feeling, although, as I am not black, my disappointments only partially overlap those of the black community.

Of course, we have in our country, as in all countries, those who believe that pride in our nation is always a virtue no matter what our bad behavior or failings.  They like to boast about how America is the greatest this, that or the other thing.  Often the boasting is not even justified, but, even when it is, they seem not to think that with all our advantages of wealth, history, and endowment, our shortcomings may be even less excusable than some of the shortcomings of others.

Michelle's statement was very impolitic, which is easy to attribute to inexperience in the public eye at this level (what's Hllary's excuse?), but I don't think that her sentiment betrays a lack of pride in or love for our country.  People who adore their children are still able to feel disappointed when their high expectations for proper behavior are disappointed.  To be blinded by love to the faults of one's children is a sickness.  No less so with the faults of one's country.

Thank you, Roid.  

By the way Jackson, "Winnie Mandela"?  Aren't we getting a tad carried away here?  

The King has his say:

"What Michelle Obama had to say isn't nearly as ridiculous as the things that Hillary says all the time, and Michelle isn't the candidate, Hillary is. "

Michelle Obama:

" for the first time in my adult lifetime, I'm really proud of my country,..."

"“We will stand with Israel because Israel is standing for American values as well as Israeli ones,”   Hillary Clinton

"“I want us here in New York to imagine, if extremist terrorists were launching rocket attacks across the Mexican or Canadian border, would we stand by or would we defend America against these attacks from extremists?”  H. C.

"“We will support her efforts to send a message to Hamas, Hezbollah, to the Syrians, to the Iranians,” Mrs. Clinton said. “We will not permit this to happen and we will take whatever steps are necessary.”  Hillary Clinton

I'm with Jack and Jack favouring Hillary, but, sad to say, the writing seems on the wall. Let's hope it can be erased by the super delegates coming to their senses.

Wright isn't going away, not by a long shot. There's a primary still to win, followed by a general election and the Republican attack machine.

Is it my imagination or has been Michelle Obama muzzled of late? And I use the verb advisedly.

Jackson:  By the way, comparing Michelle to Winnie is what Marty means by "hysteria."

Basman:  When Hillary admits her vote for the Iraq war was political, then sure, I'll expect the same from Obama, though his reason for staying with Wright is far more complicated than you're suggesting.

...Wright is far more complicated ...

Yeah it's politically complicated, that's all. He's just another mug in the mugs' game.

...When Hillary admits her vote for the Iraq war was political, then sure...

I'm not sure what in what I said prompted this comment, but I'l stipulate that there was an element of poltical calculation in her vote; she is a poltician after all, also another mug. So will you stipulate same?

Sure, I will.  Obama himself admitted as much in his book.  He said that when he initially joined the church he thought it would be a politically savvy move.  O.K.?  Satisfied, Mr. Big-Shot lawyer?

I think it's important to note here that it's one thing to do something politically efficacious when it doesn't hurt anybody and it's another to do the same when people's lives are at risk. I simply don't see Obama making the political choice to join the community of the UCC church as comparable to Clinton's vote on the Iraq War Resolution.

Besides the fact that Wright's comments don't necessarily reflect Obama's viewpoints, there is also the fact that many people choose their spiritual guidance in a complex manner. If he saw all the great things that the UCC was accomplishing and saw that Wright was the leader of this community, he could certainly seek to glean what positive teachings he could while rejecting that with which he disagrees.

Also, it is important to note that Obama was key player in moving Wright out of the church. He believes in leaving people with their dignity, so he didn't eviscerate the man to make this  happen, but he did feel that Wright's perspective was a bit "old school" and that it was time for new leadership. So, as much as he admired him for some things, he had his criticisms and lovingly helped pushed him aside. I have a great admiration for his ability to accomplish these kind of sensitive, yet critical changes in this way.

So nearly a day has gone by since Germany's prime minister announced she would not attend the Beijing Olympic games.  I'm sure Marty is just taking Sunday off and on Monday he will bacingly call on his favorite presidential candidate (as well as his opponents) and say this is a minimum threshold for them to earn his vote in the general election.  Because Marty isn't a genocide pimp.  Right?  

Chiming in,  I'm bored with Wright too -- agree or disagree with Obama's position, by now everyone has heard all sides out (whether they wanted to or not!) and can make up their own minds.  There's an interesting, debatable difference between Hillary Clinton and Barrack Obama's economic plans (to add to their difference on health care approaches) that deseves far more attention.  

mollysimon said:  "Jackson:  By the way, comparing Michelle to Winnie is what Marty means by "hysteria.""

Marty's attack on Hillary is what I mean by "hysteria."

I also consider Obama’s inability to confront Wright also a sign of hysteria. I will leave it to each Obama supporter to decide if their continued support of Obama is also a sign of hysteria.

Even I don't think Michelle Obama's statement was anything to get upset about -- she was merely getting caught up in the moment -- it's her husband for God's sake (something I wish Obama supporters might put their cynicism aside, consider that Bill Clinton might actually have strong feelings for Hillary and that this motivates some of his zealousness).  

basman said:  "I'm with Jack and Jack favouring Hillary, but, sad to say, the writing seems on the wall."

Maybe, but it's not over till it's over and the voters of PA and Indiana as well as Fla and Michigan have a right to have their votes counted.

lymon1 said: "Even I don't think Michelle Obama's statement was anything to get upset about --.."

In and of itself not, but in the context of everything else said by Obama's inner circle it's one more item to be taken into consideration.

Besides, you'd have to know the dynamics of their marriage to be able to make the claim that she will have no influence on policy.  

Molly I ma never going to use the word sti........ again.

Jack what you just said about it being over or not: here is hoping no fat lady sings any time soon.

jacksondyer, you'll see how surprised this besotted crowd will be when president Obama brings a bunch of first-class of anti-American bastards and Jew-haters in high positions.

Here's my easy prediction on the people in the Obama administration: Rashid Khalidi, Samantha Powers, Stephen Walt, John Mearsheimer, Jimmy Carter, Zbigniew Brzezinski, Jeremiah Wright, Juan Cole, Susan Rice.

Um, Marty...?  www.politico.com/.../9269.html

Basman--just so you know, I was using the term "big-shot lawyer" to sound like a Jewish mother from the 50s.  Sort of a lame attempt at Portnoy's mom.  I'm sorry if it came out wrong.

In any case, the fat lady is backstage, adjusting her Valkyrie helmet, just waiting for her cue.  God, this feels about as long as the Ring Cycle, doesn't it?  

Lymon1:  This only makes me love him more.  

Sleepy, you forgot Farrakhan, David Duke, and the current head of whatever Nazi party is left.    

I'm sure the first thing he'll do is withdraw the money pledged to Israel and funnel it all to Hamas--an action he'll take in complete secrecy.  Then of course he'll invite Assad to the White House for a premier photo op, hand-shake and all, and pledge our undying alliance with his country.  Next, we cozy up to Ahmadinejad, promise him our nuclear secrets in exchange for discount oil.  He tells the Chinese they're doing great work with their press--he's sure they're living much better lives in psychiatric hospitals--and looks for ways we can model their treatment of labor and manufacturing standards--what's a little tainted heparin.  These companies are profitable, aren't they? Finally, lest we not forget him, Putin's successor.  He looks into his soul and declares him the second coming.  Venezuela's Chavez will keep until next year.  We don't want to over-do it, do we?

Molly -- I have no problem with the revisions (either that he made them or that the revisions are improvements).  It's the earlier statement that he never saw these -- and now here's a copy with his handwriting.  Will the media give this 1/1,000 the attention Hillary's Bosnia misstatement got?  He said he never endorsed mandates for health care other than to say "theoretically" if we were starting from scratch they would be desirable.  Then Factcheck.org found a speech where he unqualifiedly endorsed mandates.  He "underreported," twice, his Rezko financing (and burried the admission on a late Friday afternoon when the Wright stuff broke).  

mollysimon, I sure forgot Farrakhan and it's too bad. After all, Black Nazi Farrakhan was the man Jeremiah Wright honored. But I didn't forget Rashid Khalidi, the Columbia professor and Palestinian terrorism suppprter man who held a fundraiser for Obama. If you like flight from reality, that's your problem. Barack Obama is linked with these bastards. It's bad enough to be linked to Khalidi and Zbigniew. Having some Nazis and anti-Semites is bad enough - he doesn't need them all on board to be a nasty president.

I also find you tactic disgusting and extraordinarily dishonest. The dishonesty only highlights ow weak your argument is.  The names I put there were specific. You didn't fight them. You can't - the Anointed has ties to those bastards. No no no no, instead you fought names that I didn't say - as if I had said them. Well that's pretty crazy. Why didn't you add the Pope or Britney Spears? If you are irrational, go to the end of your "logic".

Lymon, okay, so he's at fault.  Whatever.  Don't you think, given that Obama is going to win this primary, that this non-stop magnifying-glass examination he's getting is going to hurt the party ultimately?  Sure the Republicans will find it on their own, but right now Obama needs to be rallying his base, not bickering with this awful woman who told us incredible lies about her experience at Bosnia, this despite the fact that, as Frank Rich wrote, she had been warned by several news agencies that they were on to her.  Not only is she a liar, she shows idiotic judgment.  Either that or she's so cynical she truly think the American public is plain stupid.  Now that I think about it, I'm sure it's the latter.

Sleepy:  Oh, for God's sake.  The Clintons have their own (much bigger) share of shady--and anti-semitic--connections.  Hmmm, didn't Bill just accept $131,000,000 from some oil-rich dictator?  Not to mention their once close friendship with Mr. Hymie-Town Jackson.  

This isn't former Soviet Union, where  people get into power and do whatever they damn well want.  So let's indulge your fantasy that We have two houses of congress and a somewhat tamper-proof judicial branch--or it was before Bush got into power.

On top of which, I seriously doubt that Obama is the two-faced pathological liar you're suggesting he is.  That's just plain paranoia.  

By the way, so nice to hear from you again--it's been a while since we last spoke.   And I don't mean that sarcastically.  Love the idea of Britney joining his team, but I'd prefer a religious leader like the Dali Lama to be on board, so much more reasonable and kind than former Hitler youth Benedict.  

Molly, Obama is not a pathological liar. He's just a liar. I really despise him for the kind of vomit-inducing cult of personality he started and basks in.

I despise him even more for the bastards he keeps company with. These reflect his judgment - he CHOSE them, as he often pointedly says. Well he chose a gallery of first-class bastards. We'll have this conversation again when Zbig is foreign secretary - or Rashir Terror Khalidi.

Just don't say you didn't know, okay? No excuses.

Sleepy, when Obama becomes president, I'm sure I'll be disappointed.  I just don't expect to be disappointed in quite the way you predict.  And I'll bet you now--a contribution to your favorite charity so long as it's not the ADL--that Obama will not pick Zbig as his foreign secretary.  $20?  Lord, I was not born a gambling woman.

Molly, it's always nice to hear you here. I just think that you are wrong on Obama. The man's someone who carefully hides his face (=what he really wants to do). If I didn't know he was smart, I would think he's an imbecile and a demagogue listening to his speeches. But he's not.

He's very obviously smart. So his vagueness is  suspect. I think he will be elected and then he will do whatever he pleases, because his mandate will not be on what he wants to do, but on his qualities. His qualities, not his program. Well, coupled with the demented people he has chosen so far as advisors, I find him really dangerous. May I be proven wrong.

By the way, what he inspires in me when seeing his public appearances is the loath of seeing a dictator-in-the-make. The mass hysteria, the adulation, the vague, idiotic and frenzied discourses, his arrogance - all these remind me of the worst in Communist dictatorships. I lived under Ceausescu, okay? I know what I am speaking of.