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COLUMNISTS
TODAY'S STORIES
26.03.2008
Standing by His Man

For Marty Peretz's take on why Obama was correct in not repudiating Reverend Wright, click here. For a taste:

My relationship to the different rabbis whose sermons I have not just heard, but heard intently over more than 50 years, would make a very difficult narrative--not quite as difficult as a narrative about my father and me, but up there. I now attend a synagogue in New York with my children and my grandson. I love the synagogue; I do not love the rabbis for I do not really know them personally. More to the point, I do not love their sermons. Two years ago, Yom Kippur, the rabbi parsed a banal speech by Bella Abzug, the old and (if truth be told) faithful red mama, as if it were a sacred text. Feh. One of this congregation's ingenuous innovations to the routine confessional of sins ("We lie. We cheat ...") in the prayer book is the following: "We rush towards war and crawl to peace." This is a lie! Why do I still pray with this assembly? Because, aside from the offending "hip" politics of the rabbis, there is an all-embracing warmth that suffuses the fold. There is beautiful music. The service is almost all in Hebrew. Still, my then-not-quite-four year-old grandson said to me on the way out, "I have never felt closer to God." Dayenu, as we say on Passover: "It is sufficient." Or, as one of the songs of the tradition known to almost every Jew puts it, Hinay ma tov ... : "How good it is for brothers to sit together ...".

(Cross-posted at The Plank.) 

--The Editors 

Posted: Wednesday, March 26, 2008 6:17 PM with 46 comment(s)

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williamyard said:

I guess for some brothers it is good to sit together in worship.

I'm an agnostic, but I go to church sometimes. I go to an evening service when the church is dark and cold and near empty. I sit alone in the back, anonymous. I do not take the Eucharist.

My favorite churches are those with soaring inner ribs of stone, a petrified monster's carcass in which I am a dermestid beetle, converting the flesh of ritual into heat.

I could no more reject a pastor than connect with him. We will both die alone. Our relationship, if any, is of mere worldly import.

March 26, 2008 8:32 PM

lymon1 said:

I just realized -- the title "Standing by your man" is yet another Hillary dig!  ("I'm not Tammy Wynette standing by my man...")  

March 26, 2008 9:42 PM

jacksondyer said:

Judging by the convoluted logic and evasiveness of most articles supporting Obama’s position on the Reverend Wright, (not excepting Marty’s tendentious piece) I would say that Obama could not be right.

I wish the controversy had focused in on Obama’s preacher’s views on Israel. I would have liked to have seen how Obama would then have handled the issue since he would have had to choose between his support for Wright and his support for the State of Israel.

It is one thing, btw, to know the difficulties Israel faces vis-à-vis both the Arabs and the Palestinians and to have to deal with the difficult political realities when Obama becomes President.

Frankly judging from his handling of the Wright controversy and some other issues which comes down to his inability to stand up to pastor personally for 20 years and to walk away I am not sanguine about his ability to withstand pressure on Israel once in office.

I am sure that whatever Hillary’s short comings, not being able to withstand political pressure is not one of them. The same goes for McCain.

March 26, 2008 10:43 PM

AlanSP said:

jacksondyer,

Let me see if I understand this correctly.  Obama has been under tremendous political pressure to repudiate Wright, and has not done so.  From this "handling of the Wright controversy" you conclude that Obama is unable to withstand political pressure?

Why on earth would Obama have to choose between supporting Wright and supporting Israel?  You seem to be confusing supporting Wright with supporting all of Wright's political positions.  Does Hillary have to choose between supporting Bill and opposing NAFTA (or, if you prefer, supporting monogamy).  For that matter, I don't recall having to choose between supporting Bob Casey and supporting gun control.  You're setting up a false choice here.

March 27, 2008 12:31 AM

peter1943 said:

I think this comment excerpted on Andrew Sullivan's blog pretty much sums up the situation:

Ack -- I can't take it anymore -- I don't care that much about Wright and it doesn't affect my support for Obama, but you and these other "scholars" have to stop pissing on our heads and telling us it's raining!  There's no way to excuse Wright's poisoning of children's minds with his AIDS conspiracy crap no matter how long he was a marine or how much better he was compared to other black preachers of his era. Bullshit.

The man is part of the problem, not part of the solution and if African-Americans can't grow up enough to treat him as such then I'm leaving the table.  I'll acknowledge Wright's good works, but the Bible teaches us that good works towards some do not excuse sins towards others.  Your constant "I don't condone his statements but..." won't cut it.

March 27, 2008 9:07 AM

jacksondyer said:

AlanSP said:   “jacksondyer,  Let me see if I understand this correctly.  Obama has been under tremendous political pressure to repudiate Wright, and has not done so.  From this "handling of the Wright controversy" you conclude that Obama is unable to withstand political pressure?”

Any poster who begins his comments with the ‘cutsie’ phrase “let me see if I understand this correctly…” doesn’t.

Obama has been under no pressure to repudiate Wright. His speech was designed to rationalize a bad situation, which he did brilliantly. He was let off the hook by his yuppie supporters.  Besides had he repudiated Wright he would have been, as polls show, hurt politically in the Black community.

Let’s face Wright is not a unique case of insane preaching, remember Al Sharpton? He too seems to have been given a pass and he is a big and vociferous supporter of the Reverent Obama, make that candidate Obama.

March 27, 2008 9:36 AM

AlanSP said:

jacksondyer, I really don't understand how you can say that Obama has been under no pressure to repudiate Wright when numerous people had been calling for him to do exactly that.  I agree that it would have done more harm than good for him, but it's what a lot of people were pushing for.

With regard to Sharpton, as so many Clinton advocates have pointed out, there is a big difference between a supporter and somebody who is a close friend and spiritual advisor.  All of the candidates have their share of politically extreme supporters (see, e.g. Robin Morgan's screed accusing anyone who opposes Hillary of sexism).  It would make no sense to draw any conclusions about Clinton based on that, just as it makes no sense to draw conclusions about Obama based on Sharpton.

March 27, 2008 10:53 AM

aarong said:

Out of curiosity, is it BJ?

March 27, 2008 11:07 AM

jacksondyer said:

AlanSP said:  "jacksondyer, I really don't understand how you can say that Obama has been under no pressure to repudiate Wright when numerous people had been calling for him to do exactly that.  I agree that it would have done more harm than good for him, but it's what a lot of people were pushing for."

The people calling for him to repudiate Wright are for the most part not his supporters. Many of these people especially on the right have also been calling for Hillary to withdraw because they know that she would be a stronger candidate against McCain in the Fall.

For the most part people around him and his supporters have been content with his "explanatory" speech.

Some like Marty Peretz have gone out of their way to make excuses for him.

It seems that for many Obama supporters hatred of Hillary trumps Obama's deficiencies.

As for Hillary I would say that her feminist supporters have done hera lot more harm than good and she would have been a stronger candidate had she repudiated that support.

March 27, 2008 11:25 AM

AlanSP said:

Peter,

I think Sullivan's philosophy here is deeply flawed.  If we insist on focusing only on people's flaws while ignoring their virtues, we'll be left with a grim and distorted view of things.  Should we ask candidates to denounce and reject Thomas Jefferson the slave owner, Lincoln the man who imprisoned 18000 people without trial, or FDR the man who authorized Japanese internment?

Sullivan's reasoning suggests that we should.  After all, nothing Wright has ever said or done is anywhere near as bad as slavery or Japanese internment.  Sure, those presidents did a lot of good things, but it doesn't excuse those sins.

The problem is that this was never about "excusing" anything.  Japanese internment is a black mark on our nation's history, but it is only a part the legacy of a man who led the country through the Great Depression and World War II.  Condemning the action but not the man is exactly the right course to take.  In evaluating Wright, as in evaluating anyone else, we should consider both the good and the bad, and for neither one is a couple minutes on YouTube sufficient.

March 27, 2008 11:30 AM

basman said:

peter1943 I am interested in what you cited. But could you make clear what the exact cited text is and if it's Sullivan or one of his posters/emailers, if you don't mind?

March 27, 2008 12:03 PM

basman said:

Jack are you of the view that the "brilliance" of Obama's speech lay in its sophistry and wiggliness as opposed to it substance, which was substantive but not "brilliant"? I am.

March 27, 2008 12:15 PM

AlanSP said:

quick correction.  The quote was from one of Sullivan's readers, not Sullivan himself

March 27, 2008 12:21 PM

mollysimon said:

TO:  Basman--he's citing a letter of dissent to Andrew which he posted on his blog.  Go to Andrewsullivan.com and look for "Dissent of the Day."

Jackson--how do you feel about "Hymie Town" Jesse Jackson--who was a close spiritual advisor to Clinton during the Monica mess?  Unlike Wright, Jackson has very little to recommend him to the world.  Furthermore, the Clintons have no spirituality, other than the gold cross Hillary sports--"Look at me--I believe in Christ."

You're a Clinton supporter, and don't seem to mind her whopper of a lie about the Bosnian tarmac.  Find, but don't throw stones at those willing to overlook Wright's egregious lapses of reason.  In fact, I don't give a shit at this point.  I'm not bothering to defend it because I think there's nothing to defend.

March 27, 2008 12:28 PM

basman said:

... I'm not bothering to defend it because I think there's nothing to defend...

But, ummh, you sound so defensive.

March 27, 2008 12:48 PM

jacksondyer said:

"You're a Clinton supporter, and don't seem to mind her whopper of a lie about the Bosnian tarmac.  Find, but don't throw stones at those willing to overlook Wright's egregious lapses of reason. "

There is a big difference between lapses in reason and a tall tale.

As for Jesse Jackson, he was only one of a dozen holly rollers Clinton turned to mostly for publicity.

Not the same thing, not even close.

March 27, 2008 1:27 PM

teplukhin2you said:

Still trying to parse Peretz' article and discover some thread of logical coherence. Here's what I come up with:

Paragraph 1: A recitation of banality but without any Tale-of-Two-Cities style irony: "The two men are each charismatic in their own ways."

2: Obama as Oliver Wendell Holmes, plus a bit of free association involving trisyllabic medical language derived from Greek and begining or ending with "ia".

3: Rabbis I have known. Bella Abzug-- feh. Good feelings. Hinay ma tov. My grandson's only four and he can deploy a negative construction to express a positive thought!

4. Barack's not Peretz. Absent dad.

5. Obama's real dad is Pastor Disaster. Hey, "it exists." "Suffice it to say".

6. An odd address to some unnamed party-- maybe the reader, maybe himself a la Jay McInerney: You are not the kind of guy to be caught in front of some computer screen trying to make soense of free associations about Bella Abzug's absent father and the Miasma Dialogues....

7. Something attracted BHO to JW. Surely not the latter's "controversial words."

8. What attracted BHO to JW? Oops, never mind. Let's talk about Episcopalians in America! Gay bishops! The wonderfully weird and wacky archbishop of Canterbury! Sharia law!!!

9. Keep on riffin', and throw in a big fat cardinal-red herring at the end. Roman Catholic politicians and abortion. Pope Benedict in Latin America, the archbishop of Boston,excommunication of politicians. "This is a far more urgent situation than the one in which Obama finds himself."

[What was it, again, that attracted BHO to JW? Hush! -ed. ]

10. Obama and the Jewish state. He's fer it. "I trust Obama on this." "non plus ultra" -sic. Bill Clinton sucks. And he's GREEDY!

11. Zbig sucks! He told me Saddam was another Sadat! Hahahahahahahahahahahah!!!!

12. General Merrill A. "Tony" McPeak doesn't just suck; he's a "satanic figure"! Worse than Walt and Mearshimer. But hey, McCain was endorsed by James "fuck the Jews" Baker! YOU ALL SUCK! And you can't even blame it on your absent fathers!! So there. But still.

13. Cosi fan tutti.

14.  The sheiks own the Clintons. What about the presidential library?

                                                                          - finis -

March 27, 2008 2:37 PM

teplukhin2you said:

How on earth did Marty forget to mention Jimmy Carter? Peretz, you're slipping.

March 27, 2008 3:03 PM

basman said:

teplukhin2me:

My brief take #9 of 40 in the posting quicksand that is talking back to the print pieces:

"There are arguments to be made on both sides of the question--as (sort of)framed here--of whether Obama was right in "standing by his man". But the incoherent, free association, drivel here displayed is a poor example of a well reasoned and well argued case for the affirmative."

I did not have the koyach to disassemble all the incoherent twists and turns as did you. You have said it for all of us. And you are a better man than I.

March 27, 2008 3:22 PM

jacksondyer said:

"Still, my then-not-quite-four year-old grandson said to me on the way out, "I have never felt closer to God." "

Marty, Hillary has got nothing on you for tall tales.

methinks your sweet tender neched (grandson) may he bring you much naches, waa closer to god in the recently evacuated womb.

March 27, 2008 3:41 PM

jacksondyer said:

Yes, Itzkik I agree with your comment above about Obama's rhetorical genius having more to do with his masterfully evasions than with the substance of his comments.

March 27, 2008 3:42 PM

mollysimon said:

To: Tep.  That was  brilliant.   (Note, too, that I have taken to writing "to" in front of names I'm addressing.)  

To:  Jackson.  First of all, it wasn't a tall tale.  It was a blatant lie told to defend her "record" of FP experience.  Clinton told a pathetic lie which was easily proven false.  So not only is she incapable of telling the truth, she's guilty of a lapse in reason.  Reason would have told her that telling whoppers will get you caught, especially in the digital age.  

As for the holy rollers, it was Jesse Jackson, OF HYMIE TOWN FAME, that Clinton chose  as a counseler.   Sure, he was only trying to maintain his support in the black community.  But remember, Mr. Hymie Town also consorts plenty with Farrakhan. Gee, maybe Clinton hates the Jews and that's why he promoted that ridiculous peace plan--the one that touched off, what? Eight years of Intifada and a Hamas regime?

To:  Basman.  Don't you be calling me defensive, bud.  I'm not defensive.  You're the one who's defensive.  

March 27, 2008 4:24 PM

jacksondyer said:

www.cbsnews.com/.../entry3973700.shtml

"A June 10th, 2007 issue of the newsletter featured an open letter written by Ali Baghdadi, appearing on the "Pastor's Page," that calls Israel an "apartheid" regime. The letter says Israel worked on an "ethnic bomb" that kills "blacks and Arabs." The letter also says "Israel was the closest ally to the white supremacists of South Africa."

In the introduction to an article printed on the "Pastor's Page" on July 7th, 2007, Wright references "the 'state' of Israel" – note the quotation marks around the word "state." "

Jesse Jackson's dumb comments are peanuts compared to the above, Molly.

March 27, 2008 4:54 PM

teplukhin2you said:

Yeah, so there. And what about Rowan Rev. Williams Il Papa Benedict Wiiliam eFferson F'in' Clinton Merrill A."T." McPeak James F.T.J. Baker ZbigniewBrzezrjzwekjadf!@&^@%$inski, huh?

(sing to REM's "End of the World As We Know It"... i. feel. fine. )

March 27, 2008 4:58 PM

basman said:

...To:  Basman.  Don't you be calling me defensive, bud.  I'm not defensive.  You're the one who's defensive. ..

No you are!

March 27, 2008 5:46 PM

basman said:

......To:  Basman.  Don't you be calling me defensive, bud.  I'm not defensive.  You're the one who's defensive. ..

No you are...

Like I'm kidding, right?

March 27, 2008 5:49 PM

mollysimon said:

To:  Basman. Like, yes, I"m kidding, too.  

March 27, 2008 8:26 PM

ironyroad said:

basman:  "Jack are you of the view that the "brilliance" of Obama's speech lay in its sophistry and wiggliness as opposed to it substance, which was substantive but not 'brilliant'? I am."

jacksondyer:  "Yes, Itzkik I agree with your comment above about Obama's rhetorical genius having more to do with his masterfully evasions than with the substance of his comments."

Guys, I think it's wonderful that you see eye-to-eye with each other over so many things, but when I put the comments together the diction and cadences remind me of something from a long time ago . . .

"Comrade Jack, do you agree that the problem of wealth distribution in western capitalism is due to the distortions of the bourgeois profit system and will be resolved once the organized working class takes power?"

"Yes comrade, I do.  The leading role of the working class in resolving the morbid aspects of the capitalist system must never be underestimated!"

March 27, 2008 8:41 PM

jm_rice said:

Itzik, when ms is talking about the Clintons, it's like a Muslim talking about the cartoons or a Palestinian about Isreal.  There's no reason there, only bile.

Tep:

15.  Leave Chelsea alone!

16. A way a lone a last a loved a long the

March 27, 2008 8:51 PM

jacksondyer said:

ironyroad, touchy aren't we?

March 27, 2008 9:39 PM

ironyroad said:

No, I don't think so.  Just . . . nostalgic.

March 27, 2008 9:53 PM

jacksondyer said:

"Just . . . nostalgic."

I see, for the good old bolshy days?

March 27, 2008 11:48 PM

hfjaeckel said:

Absolutely astonishing.  An incoherent, virtually incomprehensible, column by the brilliant and incisive Martin Peretz.  What is it about this man Obama that makes so many people take leave of their critical faculties?

Mr. Peretz's gaseous pontifications notwithstanding, the essential fact about Barack Obama's relationship with the Reverend Jeremiah A. Wright, Jr. can be simply stated:  Senator Obama sat still for Wright's racist, anti-American demogoguery for twenty years, without a word of protest, public or private.  We should expect more from a would-be president.

March 28, 2008 12:03 AM

basman said:

ironyroad: great minds think alike and when you agree with me you too will have a great mind.

March 28, 2008 1:04 AM

Annabella2 said:

hfjaeckel... how the hell do you know what Obama did or did not say to his Pastor in private about some of his view?  Isn't that a bit over the top?

As for in public... Obama has repeatedly repudiated stances by TUCC on Israel including on his website months ago when he was critical of giving any award to Farrakhan...

I don't get this rage to not only repudiate, but denounce and renounce and trounce...

And how many of you that are so irate... irate about this actually have a community of faith that you attend with any regularity and that means anything in your lives?  For some people a community of faith is family.  Hopefully we all forgive those we love for things they say as long as they don't go out and actively hurt people in the name of some ideologically held position.

I must say I find all this outrage, OUTRAGE a bit over the top and I hold no candle for the more paranoid and typically Left wing bashing of Israel that Wright was occasionally verbally prone to.  And which Obama again repudiated and made clear that patholgies in the Muslim/Palestinian world were at the root of a lot of the problem.

BUT one does not boil down a 30 year highly respected ministry by an erudite Biblical scholar whose church has done amazing things to repair its broken South Side community into a few sound bites, taken out of context I might say.  

What gets me about so many of these outraged comments is how little curiosity the makers seem to have to find out any more about TUCC, Black church rhetoric, the historic role of black churches in general in the Black community, the specific role of TUCC in its community, who Wright is, why he is highly regarded among the 57,000 united churches of Christ... etc. etc.

You guys/gals think of yourselves as intellectuals.  Well start acting like intellectuals by showing a bit of curiosity, before you get yourselves into such an all fired self righteous lather.  And if that sounds Wrightean to you in its castigating rhetoric... I meant it to!

March 28, 2008 2:21 AM

r-ennis said:

It is true that Baker said "Fuck the Jews". Nixon was also reputed to be ant-semitic. Yet, when push came to shove in 1973, when Egypt attacked on Yom Kippur, Nixon immediately resupplied Israel and may have saved it from disaster. TNR reported that, in its opinion, McGovern would not have been that prompt or - worse - might have done nothing.

I trust McCain most on such issues of life and death and trust Hillary more than Obama. In this era, the critical issue is keeping Iran from becoming a nuclear power. On this, I trust Obama not at all.  

March 28, 2008 10:03 AM

shb345 said:

MollySimon,

It's hard to take you seriously, when you say "the Clintons have no spirituality."  You know absolutely zero about their interior lives.  If you read books about them, however, you would learn  that they have been serious, engaged Christians for most of their lives.  In fact, out of his meager earnings from various odd jobs in his youth, Bill Clinton still managed to make regular donations to Jimmy Swaggart's ministry.  Your comment is risible.

March 28, 2008 11:25 AM

ironyroad said:

basman, I know.  I'm working on it!

March 28, 2008 11:25 AM

basman said:

... before you get yourselves into such an all fired self righteous lather....

Pots and kettles and about a million other like sayings.

March 28, 2008 11:52 AM

basman said:

...basman, I know.  I'm working on it!...

Not for nothing do they call him Ironyroad.

March 28, 2008 11:53 AM

mollysimon said:

To: shb345.  Oooh, risible, big word.  He gave money to Jimmy Swaggart.  Quite a feather in his cap.  So what have they done lately.  Where do they attend church regularly?  Oh, that's right.  Hillary belongs to that shadowy congressional "prayer breakfast."  Probably helps her suck up to almost entirely Republican membership.  Well, you can't fault her for reaching across the aisle.

They belong to the church of Hill and Bill, where they regularly worship.  Only someone who esteems herself above all others would be staying in this race with a 5 percent chance of winning.  But you keep believing!  

March 28, 2008 11:57 AM

jm_rice said:

"What is it about this man Obama that makes so many people take leave of their critical faculties?"

I agree, 'tis a wonder to behold.  

I'm wild again, beguiled again, A simpering, whimpering child again, Bewitched, bothered and bewildered - am I.

He's a fool and don't I know it, But a fool can have his charms, I'm in love and don't I show it, Like a babe in arms.

I'll sing to him, each spring to him, And worship the trousers that cling to him, Bewitched, bothered and bewildered - am I

I wonder if the end of the song will come in time to save the Obamaphiles:

Wise at last, my eyes at last, , Are cutting you down to your size at last, Bewitched, bothered and bewildered - no more

Romance, finis.  Your chance, finis. Those ants that invaded my pants, finis.

Bewitched, bothered and bewildered - no more.

March 28, 2008 12:16 PM

basman said:

A soulless pol named Obama

posed as being above all the drama;

but struck with bad luck,

when wrong Wright threw him a fuck,

right under the truck went his nana.

March 28, 2008 1:45 PM

jm_rice said:

Nipsey Russell lives!

Itzik, I want to see McCain outrank his glorious granddad and his dad.  I know, it's *rank* sentiment, but hey, it's no flakier than what motivates the Obamaphile.

March 28, 2008 2:54 PM

sanda said:

Mr. Peretz, your post reminds me of Obama throwing his grandma overboard to stay dry.  Can we stop saying "me too" just to show how normal his 20-year stint in the Wright church was?!  Sorry, but despite Obama's claim, I have nobody like his pastor in my family; I have never, and would not, stay in a synagogue whose rabbi spewed a tenth of what Mr. Wright has said; and everything is not comparable to everything.  Disliking, or disagreeing with, some of your rabbi's views, does not come close to the Obama story unless the said rabbi said similar (racist, antisemitic, etc. stuff).  And if he or she did say such lowly stuff, then if you stayed I do not respect your choice.  We can find brothers to be together with in plenty of places that are not polluted by Wright-style sermons.

March 30, 2008 1:12 PM

sleepyavl said:

basman, great limerick!

But pay attention, the Obama crowd might take you to task. They're not supporters, they're believers. So what you did is not satire, it's blasphemy.

March 31, 2008 2:39 PM

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