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COLUMNISTS
TODAY'S STORIES
30.01.2008
When Hillary Snubbed Me

Poor Hillary was snubbed by Barack Obama.  I suppose she thinks he should have snubbed Senator Claire McCaskill of Missouri instead.  He was closer to McCaskill then he was to Hillary who was, in any case, already engaged in false pleasantries with Senator Kennedy.  What's more, Hillary is known to snub people all the time. In fact, she even snubbed me once at a reception at the White House.  I was talking to someone in the Rose Garden, and she came over to greet the someone with whom I was already chatting.  That someone, in turn, introduced me, saying, "Of course, you know Marty Peretz," which actually she did not.  I had never been in a room with Hillary that didn't also contain a thousand other people.  That didn't phase her at all.  And she responded, "Indeed, I do," and turned on her heel and left.

I don't have an explanation.  Except that The New Republic was not especially enamored of her health plan which, in retrospect, has impeded health reform for a decade and a half.  As it happens, we had published a devastating analysis of the proposal by Elizabeth McCaughey; and somehow, in the mysteries of Washington, this became the vivid center of the debate.  The White House actually put out what I recall as a nine page rebuttal to the TNR critique, another tactical mistake in the genius presidency.  Anyway, it is to this article that her snub to me may be attributed. But it could be something even more petty.

Posted: Wednesday, January 30, 2008 11:18 PM with 47 comment(s)

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rozenson said:

"I don't have an explanation.  Except that The New Republic was not especially enamored of her health plan"

Our minds think alike. I'm glad that your pages have embraced, if not Hillarycare, universal healthcare in general.

January 30, 2008 6:45 PM

achester99 said:

Wait, is this the source for Peretz's entire Clinton hatred?  There must be more, right?  What is it?  Does anyone know?  Did he hate the Clintons before this snub?  And is he really petty enough to dedicate 50% of his blog to hating a two people because one of them didn't once kiss his ass at a party?

January 30, 2008 6:52 PM

davidsmith192 said:

Didn't TNR recently admit that its opposition to the Clinton health care plan was wrong?   Thus, you may want to re-word the second sentence in the second paragraph to indicate that it was TNR and not Hillary Clinton who impeded health care reform.

January 30, 2008 6:53 PM

blackton said:

I recently shared a plane ride with a Chicago native who owns a boutique on the Chicago waterfront somewhere. He told me that around the time Obama was running for Senator, he and his family stopped by to look at his wares. He recognized Obama but didn't want to bother him by gushing and they engaged in a few minutes of idle chitchat.

Just a few short years he was an ordinary guy, I gotta believe there is still a big part of him that is the same way. Hillary, not a chance.

January 30, 2008 6:54 PM

thejauntyboulevardier said:

good lord...I agree with achester...talk about petty.  There has to be more to peretz' hillary animus than this sorry playground bleat. btw, if I do recall, the tnr articles on Hillarycare turned out to be mostly false and hysterical, something that davidsmith mentioned.

January 30, 2008 7:14 PM

gperez- said:

Aw, poor little Peretz and his eggshell ego was crushed by the big bad Hillary.

Narcissist.

January 30, 2008 7:23 PM

sleepyavl said:

Whaddya expect Marty?! Had I been Hillary, I would have told you "Fuck yourself". And I don't even like her.

Are you happy you contributed to shooting down her plan? Congratulations, you really fucked up. Don't be so self-righteous. What TNR -and that means you too as its chief editor and owner- did to health care was imbecile.

January 30, 2008 7:24 PM

adamvaught said:

... ... ... ... ... ...wow... ... ... ... ... ...this post is... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ...man... ... ... ...wow... ... ...she didn't shake ... your hand... ... ...I mean... ...who cares... ... ... ... ... ...wow... ... ... ... ...*scratches head*... ... ...so wierd......

January 30, 2008 8:03 PM

mmathog said:

Yeah, didn't Franklin Foer apologize for TNR's behavior wrt the healthcare plan?

January 30, 2008 9:04 PM

rpvmeyer said:

Thank you for contributing to this civil conversation "sleepyavl".  Is this why you decided to subscribe to TNR?  So you could make such a lucid contribution?

Now given your proclivity for vitriol, I'm sure you will enjoy this:

"It began in the presidential primary campaigns of 1988, when Jesse Jackson (for whom I was senior health advisor), running for the Democratic nomination, made a commitment to universal, comprehensive health care benefits coverage a central component of his platform."

Check it out, and see what you can add to this conversation concerning "HillaryCare".

Suggest you read the entire article...not from TNR...www.counterpunch.org/navarro11122007.html

You can read the details, but you should see a striking similarity between Cheney's Oil Task Force and the influence of the insurance industry on the "HillaryCare" proposal.

Please read, comment and clean it up, unless you are a victim of severe Gilles de la Tourette syndrome.  In which case, we should give you a pass.

Fracuss

January 30, 2008 9:25 PM

sprechs said:

I had always thought that Marty's hatred of the Clintons derived from his love of Al Gore, and his feelings that Gore was pulled down by them...

on the health care front, whatever you all might think of the Clinton health care plan, the McCaughey Ross piece was incredibly misleading, and garnered media attention because of its outrageous claims, like that doctors would be arrested for performing procedures not covered by the plan....

January 30, 2008 11:06 PM

Eos said:

Marty,

sheesh. no one cares if you got snubbed.

January 30, 2008 11:32 PM

rozenson said:

"no one cares if you got snubbed."

That's his point. Why should we care if Hillary got "snubbed"?

January 30, 2008 11:41 PM

basman said:

That's his point. Why should we care if Hillary got "snubbed"?

Because it may be politically meaningful, perversely enough!

And I don't think that's his point: his point is that Hillary, that great snubber, can't be heard to complain about being snubbed, which is the opposite of the point you impute to him--hypocrisy, entailing caring, as opposed to indifference

January 30, 2008 11:59 PM

Wandreycer1 said:

Good for Hillary - you treat powerful Democrats like shit Marty, especially women and that's prtty much common knowledge (especially among women). Although I'm not supporting her, I love this anecdote.

She wasn't snubbed by Obama and she knows it - she's just milking this for all she can get, which is fair.

January 31, 2008 8:45 AM

basman said:

She wasn't snubbed by Obama and she knows it ...

Maybe she was; Lawrence O'Donnell thinks she was. What's the source of your certain knowledge?

January 31, 2008 9:11 AM

tnmats said:

She did this to Peretz?  I never cared much for HRC, but after reading this I'd gladly vote for her now.

January 31, 2008 9:15 AM

spurious said:

basman: Can I just ask--and genuinely, as a non-US reader--where has Hillary complained about being snubbed? There was her response to a question on the subject straight out of the Running for Office Handbook, posted here, but the concomitant analysis was TNR mind-reading at its finest. There are commentators here who'd make a fine living at three-card Monte, so long as they played themselves.

Irrespectively, Peretz's Curb Your Enthusiasm impression is as hilarious as it is revealing. I had--like many--for ages wondered what triviality had prompted his petulant ire, and now I know.

January 31, 2008 9:40 AM

blackton said:

I dunno, I think everyone is being too rough on Mr. P. It is just an anecdote, everyone here is reading Marty's motivations as much as they are accusing him of reading Hillary Clinton's. To be honest, the only thing I made of it is that Hillary has been living in a world of hyperpartisan politics for far too long. That there is a time and place to make your displeasure known over policy differences and a reception ain't one of them. The only time I ever applauded rudeness is when Bush asked Webb how Webb's son was doing in a WH reception, and Webb basically told him none of his business. It was rude of Webb, but considering how he feels about Iraq and the danger his son is being put in by Bush's policies certainly understandable. But arcane policy differences? nah.

January 31, 2008 10:12 AM

mjx47 said:

I think the source of MP's hatred is that he thinks that, ultimately, it was the Clintons who cost Gore the Presidency (i.e. if Clinton had not conducted his second term so recklessly and gotten himself impeached, Gore would have easily won a landslide).  I tend to agree with that and it's a painful thought.  For a close Gore friend like MP, it is more than enough to produce contempt.

January 31, 2008 10:35 AM

Wandreycer1 said:

Well, I guess I was mind reading Basman - that's a fair critique.  I guess I respect Hillary more than that, she is way too tough and been around way too long to be bothered with such small bore heat-of-the-battle things. She is a fierce competitor herself, a formidable one and I respect that in her. I also watched the clip and it didn't seem like a snub in the slightest to me, but either way - so what?

To me, it was blown up in the media because of this patronizing poor-put-upon-woman vibe that gets stirred up with most things Hillary and I've said before - as much as it angers me as a feminist, it's fair for her to scoop up whatever is thrown at her and use it to her advantage.  This is the big time.  If this was a male candidate for the most powerful office in the land, most viewers would just laugh off any perceived snub as fair game for the heat of the battle. Can you imagine sitting there saying "Of all the nerve, did you see that snub of Joe Biden?  How mean, what if that was YOUR son?"

But with Hillary, people start over-identifying immediately, thinking of their daughter, sister, themselves, yadda yadda and all of a sudden, it's New Hampshire redux.  It's like she's running for school board rather than as Commander in Chief of the US arned services. It would be funny if it wasn't so patronizing.  

January 31, 2008 10:51 AM

Wandreycer1 said:

Oh, and look - I adore Gore as much as anyone, he's of of the finest public officials this country has ever produced, and I mean that. He's brilliant and influential and every time he comes out with a book, I'm the first person in line to get one.

He also won the 2000 campaign by 500,000 votes.

He also irritates the bejesus out of 50% of the public, fair or not (not in my view) and is considered a scold and a stiff as a campaigner, fair or not (very unfair) by even more.  

Bill Clinton plays in there somewhere, but it's not all his fault at all.

January 31, 2008 11:12 AM

basman said:

basman: Can I just ask--and genuinely, as a non-US reader--where has Hillary complained about being snubbed?...

I don't  think she has so complained.

I am also a non American, just interested.

January 31, 2008 11:17 AM

jacksondyer said:

Thanks for the post, Marty. I thought there was something personal in your dislike for Hillary. I am sure you have other worthier reasons for endorsing Obama, but your criticism of the Clinton's is tinged with personal resentment.

Had Hillary snubbed me I might have reacted as you did, though I probably would not have endorsed the inexperienced Obama. Still, you could have done worse.  You could have endorsed Kucinich.

I take it for granted that Hillary is not easy to get along with, but why do we expect to get chummy with out elected officials? I suppose it’s one of the consequences of modern democracy in the age of non-stop media which tries to abolish essential differences and presents all people, businessman, and military heroes as well as writers and artists as just plain folk which is to say as one dimensional characters. Everyone is a hero and everyone can be a leader.  In this democratic novel we are all minor characters and anti-heroes.  

Finally, I hope, Marty, you won’t be too disappointed if the choice is between Romney and Hillary rather than between Obama and McCain. Democratic primaries do have a way of confounding all our expectations.  I noticed that the media has declared McCain the front runner and is now going after him. Elections are a kind of ‘blood sport’ to them.

It’s lucky for Hillary and Obama that neither of them has been declared the front runner, yet tough I suspect this is about to change in a few days.  

January 31, 2008 11:49 AM

teplukhin2you said:

Obviously this is not the source of MP's animus against the Clintons. That goes back years, and has many sources. Michael Kelly's hatchet in the late 1990s was sharpened with Marty's approval. He only ditched Kelly when the hatchet man turned his attention to Gore.

January 31, 2008 1:47 PM

mollysimon said:

Jackson, come on.  You of all people.  Marty's just passing along a juicy tidbit.  I can't believe any of you seriously think Marty got an ego-bruising.  It's funny.  But this might be a case in which really, really smart people don't get the joke.  They blink owlishly.  And answer as if the teller of said joke was being entirely serious.  This is why really smart (and average) nerds are sometimes told to get a life.

January 31, 2008 2:03 PM

mollysimon said:

Tep:  Has it occurred to you that maybe he just hates the Clintons?  That maybe he despises their utter lack of integrity, their unseemly behavior, the lack of any moral conviction?  

January 31, 2008 2:05 PM

ralphnelle said:

Great story. Helps me understand where HRC is coming from: she's just projecting. As a professional snubber, she sees the world through snub-tinted lenses. When Obama turned away from her out of respect (a concept with which she is insufficiently familiar), she interpreted it in terms of her own tortured soul's categories.

January 31, 2008 2:12 PM

Maksutov66 said:

It's bad enough that she subbed you, but to have a woman turn on her heel like that!

January 31, 2008 2:41 PM

mollysimon said:

Wow, Ralphnelle.  That was good.  And I mean good.  Are you a shrink in real life?

January 31, 2008 2:42 PM

norval13 said:

Peretz's animus towards the Clintons seems to have a number of sources.  Personally, I suspect he felt they ill-used Gore, which caused him the election--this in spite of the fact that Gore won the popular vote and if anyone ill-used the man, it was the GOP and the GOP-lackey Supreme Court (I also suspect that Peretz thought that if Gore became President, Peretz would get some sort of cabinet position or at least be credited as Al's Political Guru or some such rot).

There is also his conviction that the Clinton's are shabby, greedy pols.  Mind you, just about every pol these days is greedy.  They have no choice.  Unless you have a large personal fortune (or marry one, like John Kerry or Peretz did), you have to raise money to run.  The Clintons are exceptionally good at schmoozing money out of people, particularly Bill.  They are also willing to partially compromise their principals to win office.  Does Peretz think that Billary is the sole example of such behavior?  It isn't pretty or inspiring, but it means that stuff gets done. (I personally think that the most poisonous movie about politics ever made in this country is MR. SMITH GOES TO WASHINGTON--this tale of a naive, uncompromising, and idealistic senator gave us a terrible model for the Ideal Senator--a movie about the butter-and-egg guys around him who actually get laws passed would have been less heart-stirring but led to less disappointment as well--also Jefferson Smith was absolutely insufferable.)

January 31, 2008 2:49 PM

psantillana said:

I agree with this: "She wasn't snubbed by Obama and she knows it"

The evidence  I think is in the photos themselves. I don't know how anyone can think she wasn't reaching for Kennedy's paw, and the resulting photo-op, given the previous events of that day. Obama didn't want to remotely look like he was hogging Ted, so he shrank back out of the way, then gratefully and conveniently latched onto McCaskill.

But I don't agree with this: "she's just milking this for all she can get, which is fair."

Fake outrage, or fake hurt-feelings, or fake snub-affirmation, is a lie.  And saying or confirming the non-snub as a snub is then a lie in the form of a smear, if a wee one.

Unless you subscribe to the "all's fair..." credo,  in which case the word "fair" has no meaning, since, if all is fair, there is no unfair.  Even trying for those Michigan votes.  My nitpicky point is that fairness, in the eyes of the credo, is irrelevant. But there is still a concept called fair. If it's inapplicable or irrelevant, fine, but it's misleading to call something "fair" because that implies that there are rules of honesty and above-board behavior, and that they are being followed.

But even if there's no "fair" anymore, there is always and forever "unattractive", and boy is this that.

January 31, 2008 5:18 PM

blackton said:

I wasn't aware Marty was running for President, as I and Molly pointed out, it is just an anecdote.

Jackson, my brother in law is fairly high placed Interior Dept. civil servant, a while back Cindy McCain got involved in a project to improve healthcare in Guam, Saipan, etc. and worked closely with my brother in law. He says she was a decent and caring person, and it is a tribute to her that no one knows the work she did. And my sister, his wife, is an assistant Principal where one of the teachers is a prominent Senators daughter. The Washington, DC area is smaller then you imagine.

Likewise, I am an absolute nobody, but worked for a time as an English trainer for a joint venture multinational (they are almost all joint ventures, with the Chinese half being owned by Jiang Zemin's son) I met him a few times when he came to our office, nice guy with very good English.

I am only trying to point out that pretty much everyone, if they worked at it, can know someone and have an anecdote to share. Why can't Marty share his?

January 31, 2008 5:27 PM

ralphnelle said:

If you aren't careful Marcia Pappas of NOW will accuse you of "metaphorically gang-raping" (her language) and abandoning *all* women. Evidently that's the new meaning of failing to support HRC.

January 31, 2008 6:09 PM

mollypowell said:

I think a big reason that Gore didn't win the presidency (ok, he won the popular vote, get over it) is that he refused to let Bill Clinton campaign for him.

Hillary Clinton and Kennedy made a point to shake each others hands. Obama turned away. The media has made a big stink about it.

I don't see how Clinton is a 'professional snubber' just because she didn't want to make nice to Marty Peretz whose magazine contributed to the downfall of health care. That's something that has negatively affected millions of Americans. Peretz getting 'snubbed' is a non-event.

January 31, 2008 11:38 PM

sleepyavl said:

rpvmeyer, this is the appropriate tone with Marty Peretz.

As for your suggestions, they're appaling. Counterpunch is an anti-Semitic rag. I read articles there - they are often factually wrong and invariably hard-core anti-Semitic. Whatever else they have to say about any topic, I don't care. Just as I don't listen to David Duke or the Ku Klux Klan, I don't see any reason to listen to Alexander Cockburn and his demented Counterpunch.  

February 1, 2008 12:53 AM

ChanRobt said:

Look, the guy tells a little story on himself and half you guys are all over him.  It's a joke everybody.  He didn't care that Hillary snubbed him.  

He doesn't respect her, he doesn't like her, he doesn't trust her.  So why would he give a shit that she snubbed him?

February 1, 2008 2:53 AM

thejauntyboulevardier said:

O'Channy...

because he obviously does care....the wound still throbs, as they say...

Sleepy...

Yes, Counterpunch, home to the deranged A. Cockburn, is worthless.  I never read it and haven't for many years. I do not recall an anti semitic bent but as I said, it has been many years and if this is true, I am not really surprised.

February 1, 2008 10:14 AM

r-ennis said:

Marty has never said a decent or even fair thing about the Clintons as long as I can recall. I don't blame Hillary at all.

Hillary pledged last night to support Obama if he got the nomination. Given all the anti-Hillary hysteria I read about from Obama supporters, I think that her pledge, that wasn't even solicited should at least be acknowledged by you out there in the anti-Hillary echo chamber.

I see now that Obama is being compared to Lincoln and Kenendy.

Lincoln, like Kennedy and Obama, was an eloquent speaker. But that does not mean that he was the right person to preside over the end of slavery. His tenure produced the most bloody war in US history and alienated half of the country leading to Jim Crow for another hundred years. He was a terrible commander in chief. He is remembered most for his Gettysburg Address which was made at the scene the most dreadful carnage. If he wasn't assassinated he would never have been glorified.

Kennedy bothched the Bay of Pigs which probably led to the Cuban Missile Crisis. He also got us into Vietnam. He was also a far worse womanizer than Clinton and more dangerous in that he had a East German mistress that concerned the CIA immensely.

I stand by my opinion that Obama is not yet ready for the presidency. I an unsure of Hillary as well. My first choice was Biden

February 1, 2008 12:04 PM

mollysimon said:

Jaunty--do bear in mind that Marty is not as sensitive a fellow as you.  If he were, he would have stopped dropping his rhetorical bombs long ago (and God bless his bombs--they keep me hooked).  Marty's more the type who feels not hurt but contempt--contempt for those who disregard his opinion.  That's the stuff he's made of.  Drives me nuts at times, but I really wish I had a cup-and-a-half of my own.  

R-ennis:  Lincoln?  LINCOLN?  Well, you do have guts, my friend.  As for Kennedy, he botched the Bay because he was hopped up on speed and painkillers.  I've tried both, and let me tell you, any reason I possess flew out of both ears (temporarily, I'd like to think).  

February 1, 2008 2:07 PM

thejauntyboulevardier said:

Molly,

hee,hee, perhaps you are right.  However, my competitive and egotistic side tells me that if you lined me up right next to marty, I would be shocked if you chose contempt over my "sensitivity"....

my real question is this: if Hillary gets the nomination - which if I were a bettng man, I'd say was still a pretty good bet - will Obama supporters desert the party, for McCain or Romney.  I think Marty will vote for McCain but I hope that the other tnr supporters will back HC. I know that I will.

February 1, 2008 2:48 PM

r-ennis said:

Molly, Kennedy botched Bay of Pigs because he was a novice. If he was on drugs, that's even worse. Loncoln botched the War Between the States for the same reason. Do you think Lincoln is above criticism? Assassination and eloquence, not competence, were his main claims to glorification. Ditto, Kennedy.

February 1, 2008 3:06 PM

mollysimon said:

Yeah, and this little thing called slavery.  What a dope.  I guess you'd call him polarizing these days.  Sorry r-ennis, but that's got to be the wackiest thing I've heard all day.  But like I said, I admire your guts.  And often like your postings.  Here, we simply part ways.

February 1, 2008 3:58 PM

ChanRobt said:

You're right, r-ennis, if Lincoln had utilized WW2 Blitzkreig tactics, employing paratroopers, tanks, and overwhelming materiel, he could have routed Lee's motley agrarians in 14 months.

Instead, he faced them down in a nasty war of attrition and scorched earth.  And instead of realizing Captain Grant and Tecumseh Sherman were the men for the job in 1861, he fussed around almost until 1864 before he put the right generals in place.

Come to think of it, if Lincoln had simply told the Confederate States to go in peace, and good luck to you and your black property, not a drop of blood would have been shed save what John Brown, that nutter, spilled.

And today, North America would look like South America, and we'd be a great nation like Argentina.  The Germans would have won WW1.  The British Empire would still stand.  And there would have been no WW2.

Lincoln, you bloody screwup.

February 1, 2008 9:19 PM

ChanRobt said:

Marty, why is there something of a delay before posts appear on your site?  You let people say as nasty a thing as they want about you, so you're obviously not censoring.

So, what gearhead is holding back traffic?

February 1, 2008 9:23 PM

myskylark said:

This is such trash.  Hillary Clinton has a reputation of getting along with all kinds of people.  She has formed close relationships with people on both sides of the aisle in the senate.  Your crummy little hatchet job is beneath contempt.  Talk about harboring a grudge!

February 2, 2008 3:27 PM

The Left Coaster said:

Time for another brief hibernation-interrupt according to this article in the NYT by Adam Nagourney (via Taylor), titled:Chance of an Obama-Clinton Ticket Is Seen as Increasingly Unlikely No wonder TNR's Marty Peretz - an Establishment smear merchant

July 30, 2008 9:53 AM

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