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COLUMNISTS
TODAY'S STORIES
08.12.2008
Obama and God

In a post below, John Judis asks, "Am I the only person who is really irritated by these unctuous reports from the Politico that President-Elect Barack Obama is not attending church on Sunday?" He then quotes from a Ben Smith story that reads, in part:

Barack Obama--despite undergoing a campaign maelstrom over his pastor--isn't a regular churchgoer. He didn't often attend Sunday services on the trail, and--unlike Presidents-elect Bush and Clinton--hadn't been since his election.

John adds:

This is the kind of reporting one would expect from the Christian Broadcast Network, whose editors and reporters presumably view less than weekly religious observance as an offense against God, and as a sign of moral depravity in a public official, but why is this presumably secular publication making such a big deal about it? I regard as an invasion of Obama’s privacy.

My hunch here is that mainstream news organizations are reporting on this not to hint at "moral depravity" but rather to raise the issue of hypocrisy, or dishonesty. If Obama had only talked about his faith when he appeared on CBN, or visited churches in Iowa, that would be one thing. But it was an issue he chose to highlight. In fact, his only joint, public appearance with McCain--after the nomination fight and prior to the first debate--was with Rick Warren, if I remember correctly. And Obama's religious life also takes up (the weakest) sections of his excellent first book. If politicians want their religious lives to remain private, then they can do the rest of us the favor of not talking so much about them.

--Isaac Chotiner 

Posted: Monday, December 08, 2008 4:02 PM with 24 comment(s)

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williamyard said:

During the campaign, did Obama emphasize a link between faith and church attendance? I don't recall.

If he did, then he's at risk of being a hypocrite. If not, he's not.

I know plenty of folks who attend church regularly. I also know a few people whose souls sag under the knowledge of their own triviality in the greater scheme of things, who as a result embrace a power they see as greater than themselves, who in many regards live a life that emulates much of what is taught in the Gospels--who walk the talk.

The above two sets intersect, but are far from congruent.

A far more relevant question to ask would be, "Are Obama's actions in concert with his stated beliefs?" The man seems to be one of the more eloquent proponents of the type of "community organizing" implied by Mathew 25--e.g., his support today of the laid-off factory worker sit-in in Chicago. I say, "more relevant" because "church" as Christ defined it in the New Testament isn't a building. It's a collection of human beings, who are just as much a church sitting in a shut factory on a Monday as they are sitting in pews on a Sunday morning.

December 8, 2008 4:42 PM

drdannyu said:

Because all of us take the time to try out new places of worship when we're changing jobs and moving our families across country.  

December 8, 2008 4:49 PM

drdannyu said:

Also, what Bill said.

December 8, 2008 4:49 PM

purcellneil said:

Isaac,

You have a point, but are we really better off having to hear all this ridiculous stuff about whether he goes to church, or what he really believes about things like angels and the Trinity?  Of course the man is a hypocrite - given a choice between a fool and a hypocrite (atheists after all are not likely to get elected), I will choose a hypocrite every time.

Neil

December 8, 2008 4:50 PM

citizenghost said:

Reportedly, President Bush was not a regular church-goer either.

I don't recall anyone highlighting that particular fact to question his faith or sincerity of belief.  

And why should they?

December 8, 2008 4:52 PM

Rhubarbs said:

"If politicians want their religious lives to remain private, then they can do the rest of us the favor of not talking so much about them."

First off, it's John Judis, not Barack Obama, who wants Obama's religious life to remain more private. Second, this defense of Politico and others for "reporting" on Obama's personal church attendance assumes that nonattendance at regular church services in any way contradicts a person's stated religious faith. Given that the vast majority of Americans express relatively strongly held religious beliefs but do not regularly attend religious services, it would seem to me that the burden of proof rests with those who think that Obama's church attendance reveals anything about his faith.

(Also, most of those who harp on Obama for not attending church since the election made great hay, prior to the election, of Obama's refusal to stop attending his church, to the point that he left that church at their urging. It's like, dudes, you got your cake, now shut up and eat it.)

December 8, 2008 4:54 PM

mbholman said:

Given that Obama's past church attendance caused so much consternation I would think he'd be forced to stay away from weekly services. Wouldn't the Pastor have to be careful of the political implications and ramifications of his message? Wouldn't Obama be faced with the possibility of having to immediately repudiate some unsavory snippet from the sermon? It seems to me that the President-elect will have to resign himself to the fact that he'd better occupy a pew only on holidays or ceremonial services, otherwise the political cost of that attendance might be too high.

Keep in mind that he is a member of a black church. We (as I too am a member of the black church) are not as docile as some other denominations. The black church is no place to simply go and sit and smile. Rev. Wright's firebrand religio-politico-philosophy is not an aberration, even his tone deafness is.

December 8, 2008 4:58 PM

satyendra said:

MBholman, could there be an "establishment" church in DC for Obama's denomination whose services consist of uncontroversial, pre-approved religious homilies? Not that Obama would be necessarily interested in said church.

December 8, 2008 5:14 PM

rhorath said:

<sarcasm>Really good idea!</sarcasm>

Don't talk about religion at all! That way when people hear the whisper and smear campaigns that claim you worship the devil, they will believe them. The point of Obama, and pretty much all Democrats, making their faith a public issue is that they are trying to head off the crazy whisper campaigns that can be very damaging in certain parts of the country. Keeping your faith to yourself is basically a death sentence for a Democrat running for president these days (unfortunately).

December 8, 2008 5:26 PM

WoodyBombay said:

mbholman,

Obama is no longer a member of Trinity United.

I would hope that Obama will spend the three hours a week he'd otherwise commit to churchgoing to, you know, shoveling the shit (or directing said shit-shoveling, I suppose) this nation finds itself currently in.

December 8, 2008 6:11 PM

blackton said:

nothing to add, most people here are right on the money, especially Bill Yard.  There is a verse in the bible warning about very vocal Temple worshippers, and how one should donate to charity anonymously.

December 8, 2008 6:22 PM

johnalthousecohen said:

I've heard that Obama's been kinda busy since he got elected.

December 9, 2008 12:06 AM

iambiguous said:

One of the funniest scenes I ever watched in a movie was the confirmation hearings of Laine Hanson to be vice president of the United States. That would be Joan Allen's character in The Contender.

She was being dragged through the political mud [by the Evil Republicans, of course] for allegedly having raunchy sex in college.

In the meantime, she is being interviewed by Gary Oldman [imagine Karl Rove in the Senate] about her position on abortion. In the course of explaining that, she makes it known that she does not believe in God.

I burst out laughing. Why? Because after she said that there was nary a gasp of horror or revulsion anywhere in the hearing room. The reaction was as though she had said she was a Dallas Cowboy fan.

Will America ever get out of the dark ages when it comes to religion and politics? It took more than 230 years to elect a "man of color" president of the United States. Soon [hopefully] a woman will be elected. Then maybe a black woman can be elected as well. And it is not inconceivable that one day we might choose a homosexual candidate. But I cannot even imagine how long it will take to elect an atheist. The sun will probqably burn out first.

george walton

December 9, 2008 1:15 AM

pburton16 said:

Who f---king cares! Who f---king cares! Who f---kingcares!

The only thing anyone should care about is whether or not Obama is doing what the American people hired him to do ... and, I was under the impression, that job was to begin repairing our devastated country.  I don't give two diseased conservative Republican rat's asses whether or he's wasting his time praying to a fictitious heavenly being every sunday.

Whether or not he's going to church is not an issue and it proves or disproves nothing about his character.  Keep religion the f--k out of politics.

December 9, 2008 6:35 AM

frilz1 said:

I would find it quite refreshing to again have a president who made religion a private matter between himself and his God & not use it as a political prop.

December 9, 2008 6:47 AM

frilz1 said:

I would find it quite refreshing to again have a president who made religion a private matter between himself and his God & not use it as a political prop.

December 9, 2008 6:47 AM

boxofrox said:

This little conversation pisses me off on many different levels. Obama came to his convictions according to his personal conciliations. Is there really any other way? Screw all of y'alls little check lists of superficial evidences. Believers and non. Leave the petty to their satisfactions and all of those fine rewards.

December 9, 2008 9:32 AM

tembrach said:

The disciplines of the faith - prayer & reflection; works of mercy & charity, accepting word & sacrament  - are all important.

I  am disapponited that Obama is not going to church. These are the disciplines that defined the life of a Christian. I know that his time is limited, but he does seem to find the time for basketball and ESPN.

I  do hope that  Barak can present the model of a  Christian who is not a zealot, or a right wing kook, but someone who is quiet, yet constant in his faith.

.

December 9, 2008 11:13 AM

GSpinks said:

Pardon the disagreement, tembrach, but the way I see it the only discipline Obama is obviously not exercising is attending church; the remainder can be exercised at any point of the day of most any person's life. Also,  the last time I checked the new testament, in all four Gospels, Jesus was a lot more concerned about the sincerity of a person's faith than their adherence to public displays of faith or vaious protocols/procedures/rites.

As for attending Church, after having read the Audacity of Hope, I'd have to say that Obama received 100 times more spiritual satisfaction from pouring himself into work and helping others than he ever received by sitting in the pew sharing in the community of the faithful. It seems to me that these "disciplines" do not so much define the life of a Christian as they allow a Christian to define their life. After all, did not Jesus instruct his disciples to leave alone the exorcist who cast out demons in Jesus' name, and yet who was not part of their group?

As for hoping Obama can present your model of a "good" Christian, I would think you should be beyond that by now. It seems to be he has been very constant in his faith, being devoted far more to action than worship, and he can only be so "quiet" as the leader of the free world with every news outlet keeping one eye on him for a hint of a peep about something that might be newsworthy.

December 9, 2008 11:44 AM

jhaleyarch said:

I find it comforting that the president-elect is staying out of church.  May he continue to do so.

December 9, 2008 12:07 PM

harriscrl3 said:

IF he is NOT going to church its a darn good sign. It shows that he is too busy working to FIX this MESS that Bush left he doesnt have time to go to church. The economy is falling apart we have a vaccuum with a  lameduck President who basically is just earning his pay check and doing NOTHING at time of crisis and the President elect has to put his team together in a hurry has to be talking about the economy and what he plans to be doing in order to stabalize the markets and folks are OBSESSING because he is not going to church. He gets Intelligence briefing 7 days a week but no they act like he is doing nothing just sitting biding time so he decides to do nothing on sunday and probably just sleep in. When the man is busting his azz to try and give this country some kind of leadership it is solely LACKING.

Carol

December 9, 2008 12:35 PM

bconklin said:

pburton16 said it all. Amen!

I would add only that we've endured eight years of government by arrogant, self-righteous "Christians" who spend billions of our tax dollars on such things as unconstitutional "faith-based initiatives" and demonstrably useless "abstinence education" but have no compunctions whatever about unprovoked, indiscriminate killing of Iraqi civilians. Can we not just be grateful (or at least hopeful) that Barack Obama is not one of these people, instead of fretting over how much time he does or does not waste going to church?

December 9, 2008 1:20 PM

tembrach said:

Gspinks

First, thanks for the civil reply

Yes,  Christ was concerned  faith..And the salvation promised was an individual one, not a collective one..

Nonetheless, belief is not simply a matter between oneself and the creator. They are fleshed out, shaped and realized in a faith community,    Christ  was not simply  a therapist, but was a  community organizer ( I think this was a point that the Obama campaign made in response to  Palin’s snide remarks.)  Congregations – churches -  are the bedrock of Christianity.

The Faith is slowly perishing, as this faith communities become depopulated (folks like James Dobson are hastening this effect, with their hatred, but that is for another thread)  Unless you participate as an active member, your faith does little to ensure that it is passed to the next generation. And I think the country is the worse for it.  I really don’t want to live in a country where the NFL , NASCAR and Talk Shows dominate Sundays.

If you want to look at this is  strictly sociological,  terms, think of Bowling Alone. The sundering of social ties that  Robert Putnam talked about is troubling . Would the  Civil Right movement occurred sans Black  Churches?   Perhaps, but in a far more violent fashion

So I was hoping that as  Obama would be a model of a strong Black family,  I was hoping they represent how  members of the faith behaves.  

December 9, 2008 4:08 PM

rpvmeyer said:

Who cares.

Maybe the basketball court is his church.

We have had enough about religion involved with government the last 30 years.

God told George to attack Iraq, as I understand it.

Of the Muslims, I seem to hear religious people saying something like, "our God is bigger than your God".  Hasn't religion killed enough people through the centuries?

I think Obama has his plate full now, and this thread goes nowhere.

Maybe heaven is wonderful, but I'm still waiting for someone to report back to us.

Did God create Man, or did Man create God?  You can argue until eternity, but you can't prove either.

Right now I'll settle for a good President, and worry about the other stuff later.

December 10, 2008 3:08 AM