Sullivan agrees 100%, and if you can judge anything by the mood over at the corner (I believe they are currently hoping that McCain can be "saved" by the 527's), tonight was the knockout punch. Jon, you can cue up your toast picture again.

All this time, McCain has been making fun of Obama for being "The One," when his real gripe is that Obama is "That One."

I completely agree.  Obama hit it out of the park.  He was crisp, informative, and plausible as a commander-in-chief.  McCain seemed tired, fuzzy, and disjointed.  The "Bomb, Bomb, Bomb, Iran" comment was a brilliant riposte.  Why would McCain, who's known as a hothead, ever dream he could sell himself as a "steady hand on the tiller"?

I agree.  I scored the first debate a tie, but this debate was clearly Obama's.  I am not sorry to see McCain sliding into defeat, but I am surprised that he left all the trash talk on the campaign trail.  I suppose it shows that McCain's campaign is pure bullshit.  What a shame that this heroic figure has discredited himself so thoroughly at the end of his career.

Neil

There were a couple of questions where Obama stated clearly that he would take military action if needed, then explained what he would do proactively to avoid getting to that point.  I think that combination can help people feel safer and help deescalate things with our adversaries.  Seemed very effective to me.

I completely agree Chait.  I thought Obama did O.K. in the first debate, but I thought he killed in this one.

"THAT ONE?!!?"  How disrespectful of McCain!  Jeff Toobin is right that this soundbite will be what everyone will remember years from now.  The "that one"  debate is what it will be called.

Castellanos and Sanchez over on CNN conceded, quickly and graciously for once.

McCain behaved as we all expected: ignobly.  "That one"; creep.

Obama is a better communicator. Obama is younger. Obama is more attractive. Obama is taller. Obama has a better wardrobe. Now on the issues: On THE issue, the economy, McCain is not sure-footed. On the Middle East, they both sound appropriately hawkish.

Now what's up with the hair plug crack? And "That one"? And why no eye contact with the three African-Americans - Barack, Oliver, and Ingrid? John McCain is one strange dude.

Am I just exhausted from work, or am I really the only one who was bored out of skull?  By both of them?

National Review corner had been trying to spin this as a "tie."  

Andy McCarthy will have none of it: "We have a disaster here — which is what you should expect when you delegate a non-conservative to make the conservative (nay, the American) case." And, "With due respect, I think tonight was a disaster for our side.  I'm dumbfounded that no one else seems to think so.  Obama did everything he needed to do, McCain did nothing he needed to do.  What am I missing?"

Read it all: corner.nationalreview.com

About the "that one" blooper...so that had NOTHING to do with any nastiness of McCain. He just had a senior moment and covered it over by trying to make it into some kind of joke.

All that talk of tillers got me thinking of Moby-Dick, and then it hit me: McCain is Ahab.

After three months of President Obama's administration, when the economy continues to sputter, corruption continues to flourish in an alarming profusion of niches, the war in Iraq continues to seesaw between supposed improvements and rashes of death, chaos and waste, Afghanistan, Iran and Osama bin Laden loom ever larger on a horizon of doom, and no perceptible improvement registers in foreign perceptions of America I'll be eager to read your take on our incumbent change.

I just realized!  McCain referred to Obama as "that" when he stated earlier in the debate when he said "that's the most liberal voting record..."  When I first heard it I thought he had just misspoke and forgot to say Obama's name.  But then he later referred to Obama as "that one."  McCain's utter contempt for Obama has been made plain, and there will be racial animus created as a result when blacks jump all over this as McCain showing disrespect to a black candidate.  Twice McCain insulted Obama in this debate and it is no wonder that Obama and he did not shake hands at the end of the debate.  

I did notice that Obama did reach out and shake hands with Cindy when he turned and saw her and McCain standing right next to him.  I also noticed that Obama first looked at McCain at this time and did not offer his hand and instead offered it to Cindy.   Obama either was pissed at McCain and did not offer his hand or Obama sensed that McCain was in no mood to deal with him.  McCain, I think, did not even try and engage Obama at all at this time although he touched Obama's shoulder as he passed.

I think McCain must have been super rattled, because he didn't shake hands and talk to the voters the way Obama and Michelle did. I mean, he did for a tiny while, then split, while Obama did as long as the cameras were rolling, possibly after, who knows. How could that help? Freaky.

I've been solidly behind Obama for months, but this debate made me question the wisdom of his economic policies in a time of crisis.  Is a tax on both individuals *and* businesses making over $250,000 in addition to the creation of numerous new programs requiring additional spending really what is needed? Of course, Obama isn't claiming that this is needed for any macroeconomic purposes, but rather for its inherent "fairness."  For the first time, I thought McCain effectively portrayed Obama as a tax and spend democrat.  This isn't to say McCain's tax proposals are any better, but I think McCain was more effective in casting doubt on Obama's economic policies than he was  in the last debate.

peterkussell: I can't let the pull-back on "That one" stand. Senior moment? Bullshit.

He would never refer to Lieberman or Ted Kennedy as "that one".

He's an arrogant, racist, condescending jerk.

He made eye contact with every white person with a question. He made NO eye contact with the three African-Americans: Barack, Oliver and Ingrid.

This guy is a world-class creep. These debates are invaluable. The camera doesn't lie.

Obama comes across as prudent and pragmatic. McCain comes across as world-weary, petulant, and yes, racist.

ammowry - yes, it may take a little longer than three months to fix the total disaster on all fronts created by the Bush administration in the past 8 years.

I agree that Obama won hands down tonight. He was more clear, forceful, and he got his points across very well.

But I disagree with the "McNasty" reaction. I think a lot of things people are pointing to as examples of nastiness don't really qualify. Some of these moments were attempts at humour that just fell flat. I think McCain was trying to strike up the kind of rapport he usually has with audience members in townhalls but it misfired because the audience wasn't really allowed to be truly interactive. Other examples were just moments of awkwardness. (McCain didn't seem to get comfortable or hit his stride until the Russia question, near the end, after which he performed really well.) And as for "that one", it struck me as a colloquial/casual expression probably more common in McCain's generation than among younger folks. I have older relatives who say "that one" and it's always pretty good natured -- a kind of affectionate-but-slightly-chiding way of referring to someone familiar, like another family member. I think the CNN commentator is wrong; it wasn't meant to be disrespectful. (Just my take.)

Some of the stuff the McCain campaign has been saying these last few days certianly does strike me as nasty, even disturbing. But I didn't think he seemed nasty in the debate tonight.

Yes, but it will not take long for the global image of the US to begin rising again, first through the election of President Obama, and then from him just behaving like a reasonable person other world leaders can work with.

hemlock41 said:

And as for "that one", it struck me as a colloquial/casual expression probably more common in McCain's generation than among younger folks.

Hemlock, I agree with a lot of what you've said above.  But I don't think that McCain saying "that one" had anything to do with innocuous colloquial expressions.  At the very least, it was extremely disrespectful, and exposed just how McCain views Obama - "that one."  Had he said, "And THIS man," it would have been more palatable.  But "that one"?  Sorry, I found that extremely demeaining.  If I had any respect for McCain going into this, I would have lost some.  But the fact is that I have no respect for McCain.  And haven't had any for quite so time.

Don't get me wrong gennitydo, I'm not suggesting that McCain's "change" would lead us any further up the primrose path.  I do, though, sense an irrationality in the widespread enthusiasm behind Obama's poll surge and reasonably presumptive victory in November.  Call me cynical and jaded, but I'm not ready to assume that Obama isn't just another slick politician, albeit peraps more articulate than average and a btter actor.  My rancour might be lessened if I could placate myself with the pr ospect of a "third" party choice who wasn't a bona fide kook.

I was wrong about them not handshaking.  Right at the close of the debate McCain walked over to Obama's seat and they shook hands and embraced.  This happened right before Brokaw told them to get out of the way of the camera.

ammowry, you are cynical and jaded.  I bet if you were honest with yourself you'd realize that there is nothing any politician could do to convince you that he or she wasn't just a slick actor.  In these jaded times all the attributes that would be indicative of a great President would come across as just slick acting to a whole lot of people like you.  Remember Slick Willie?  Pretty good President and he was called slick too when he started out.  

I think it is now officially Too Late For John McCain. The last debate will come too late to change the dynamic.

I'm going to place my bets right now. Unless something Cosmic happens, this race was locked in tonight.

November 4:

Obama wins the Kerry states + IA, CO, NM, OH , FL and VA, for a total of 333 EVs.

(This bet stands barring Obama being caught on a futon in a Damascus slum with an 8-year boy and a transexual goat, John McCain morphing into Jesus Christ, or a dirty bomb in Times Square.)

Thanks for your compliance Woland.  Maybe I think politicians are just slick actors because they'd never be elected if they weren't.  Remember Ron Paul woland?  Remember Dennis Kucinich?  Heck, even Howard Dean couldn't act sane enough for long enough to convince the Democrats he'd be better than the reincarnation of Boris Karloff.

By the way, I'd be careful about tossing off too much praise for Bill Clinton.  I'm surprised you'd do so if you've read this magazine for long.

By golly, doggone it sullydog, your game changers put any jaded suggestions I was thinking of to shame!  You're not a closet cynic now, are you?  Let's hope it's all jocular fun your way...

One of the things that was really striking about this debate was the fact that, as far as I can judge, almost everything McCain said about climate change and the environment would have been rejected, to one degree or another, by his VP running mate.

Also, when he mentioned his administration potentially ordering the federal govt to buy up all bad mortgages, I could hear Palin's dentist drill voice saying last week, if you go to a soccer game, you hear people talking about how they want government to get out of the way.

It's like there's three campaigns at the moment, Obama/Biden, which is going well, John McCain's, which is fading, and Sarah Palin's which is going strong but it doesn't matter because basically nobody cares too much who the VP is.  It's as if Palin is running as much against McCain as against Obama-Biden.

Btw the moment that surprisingly hasn't been mentioned, as an Obama gaffe, is his enthusiastic designation of Delaware as a state that's home to weird and loose banking laws that enable credit card companies to headquarter there and operate all sorts of scams.  It's a Biden-scale gaffe but from Obama.  Harmless but cringe-making.

Assorted thoughts:

-I agree with hemlock on the "that one" kerfluffle.  I didn't think it was meant to be demeaning or disrespectful.

-Jon's right that Obama pretty much crushed McCain on both the style and the substance.  This was especially true on health care where he made an effective case about why the government needs to be involved and why McCain's plan to allow insurance sales across state lines is potentially dangerous (although he probably should have used South Dakota as an example of a haven for credit card companies rather than Delaware).  And he wove in his family's own experience to make his case.

-I think McCain's plan for a game-changing big new idea was the plan to buy up and renegotiate bad mortgages.  It's a plan that has some potential (Clay Risen wrote about something similar here blogs.tnr.com/.../now-that-we-re-back-where-we-were-three-weeks-ago.aspx ), but he didn't flesh it out nearly enough.

-The debate format sucked.  Not the town hall setting or the questions from the audience/internet, but the severe time constraints and limitations on any sort of back-and-forth.  These are complicated issues, and it would make more sense to have fewer questions and more time to actually answer them and, you know, debate.

-Best quip of the night came from Ezra Klein :

9:28: McCain gets his first question "from the internet." Would that it were, "Senator, please explain, specifically, how this question got from me to you."

www.prospect.org/.../ezraklein_archive

Another way to judge that Obama clearly won the debate is to watch it again with the sound turned off. Obama comes off visually as clearly in command, where McCain seems to be angrily wandering around in a thick fog trying not to bump into a wall.

Ironyroad, I noticed as well Obama talking about the credit card companies all going to Delaware, only because that's Biden's state, and Biden was looking out for his Big Credit peeps when he voted for that bankruptcy bill.  You're right, he should have said SD.

Obama did great. Does anyone think he could have done greater by teasing out McCain's positions on Social Security, Medicare and Medicaid? As Jonathan Cohn reported a couple of days ago, and as McCain stated last night, he wants to make Medicaid "more efficient."  What exactly does this mean, unless it's to reduce the premiums paid to drs. further below market value, possibly causing more health providers to drop Medicaid?

Did anyone notice that Obama gave a non-answer the audience member's following direct question,

"If despite your best diplomatic efforts, Iran attacks Israel, would you be willing to commit U.S. troops in support and defense of Israel?  Or would you wait on approval from the U.N. Security Council?"

Obama didn't directly answer "yes" to either question, but rather spoke in generalities about "not letting Iran get a nuclear weapon";  "not taking military options off the table"'; and, "not providing veto power to the United Nations or anyone else in acting in our interests".  Uh, the question was about what he would do *after* an attack.

The big news is the growing triumph of Obama-style campaign strategy over the  modern Republican ‘slash and burn’ model.  

The voters clearly reject John McCain demonizing Obama. Results from the last two debates, and even last night’s CNN meter poll showed this.  The CNN poll spiked up when either candidate talked solutions and trended down at the first sign of negativity.  Obama had more solutions, McCain more rancor.   To the voters, it was no contest.

The era in which negative politics works is doomed.  So is the myth of the knock-out punch the media craves but is antethical the the new model signaled by these last three debates.  Instead of a shallow quip heralded as the decisive blow what we are witnessing is the continued and steady erosion of the McCain message and voter rejection of Republican tactics.  This rejection has been soundly, steadily building for months.

In the face of substance, steadiness and solutions, ‘clever’ one-liners don’t win.  Obama has understood this since the day he announced his candidacy.  He frames his answers in ways that square with the big picture and reality voters face.   They instinctively appreciate Obama’s ability to draw several problems, topics and trends together into a rational explanation of where we are and need to go. Let the Republicans call it ‘empty rhetoric’. To voters, it’s a breath of fresh air.  Who was the last politicians who talked in paragraphs instead of simple thoughts one at a time.  Those calling Obama ‘elitist’ are the very ones who themselves talk down to voters.

In foreign policy, Obama nailed McCain by demonstrating that war actually built up Iran by introducing chaos into its main rival, Iraq.   This makes sense to voters because it draws a full circle  of wrong thinking instead of leaving things as cautious little dots that most candidates don’t know how or where to connect.   Obama does the same thing by linking his program for energy independence as fundamental to the creation of new jobs that can’t be exported overseas.

This is a new era. The media is behind.  They need a new set of benchmarks to pick the ‘winners and losers’.  Better yet, they shouldn’t even try.

(more at horribledictu.com)