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COLUMNISTS
TODAY'S STORIES
02.10.2008
The Insta-polls: Deja Vu All Over Again

CNN just published its instant poll of people who watched the debate. Result: 51 percent thought Joe Biden did the better job, while 36 percent sided with Palin. The CBS poll of undecided voters yielded similar numbers: 46 percent thought Biden won, while 21 picked Palin.

Let’s stipulate that these instant polls are not the most accurate measures of public opinion. Here’s the interesting thing: The results are virtually identical to the results from last week’s debate between Barack Obama and John McCain. In CNN’s poll, 51 percent thought Obama won while 38 percent thought McCain won.  CBS had it 39-25 for Obama.

Maybe there’s a lesson here. We’re used to analyzing debates based on the candidates’ performance: Were they likeable? Did they make gaffes? And sometimes, surely, that’s the real significance. If George H.W. Bush hadn’t looked at his watch in 1992 or if Al Gore could have kept his sighs to himself, history might be very different.

But for all of the outsized importance character and personality have taken on during this year’s campaign, perhaps the debates will prove significant for a much simpler reason: They conveyed to the voters the philosophy and proposals that each presidential ticket endorses.

Think about it: Obama and Biden don’t really have similar personalities or debating styles; their backgrounds are pretty different, too. The Republican ticket is even more disjointed. McCain and Palin are as different as two candidates can be. But when paired off against their counterparts, both the presidential and vice presidential candidates performed at basically the same level.

It could be coincidence. Or it could be the fact that they made the same essential arguments--and the viewers reached the same conclusions about them.

On economic issues, both Obama and Biden laid out ambitious plans to promote economic security for the poor and middle class: Spending more on education, moving tax breaks from the rich to the non-rich, making health insurance available to everybody. McCain and Palin, by contrast, committed themselves to less spending and lower taxes.

On foreign policy, Obama and Biden attacked McCain for supporting the war and endorsing the doctrine of preemption. McCain and Palin, by contrast, attacked Obama for opposing the surge and proposing engagement with some would-be adversaries. These are pretty clear contrasts on the issues at the top of the agenda.

My reading of the issue polls this campaign season suggest that, in general, voters prefer the Obama approach on both sets of issues to the McCain approach. If so, maybe that's what's driving these decisions over who "won" the debates. 

--Jonathan Cohn

Posted: Thursday, October 02, 2008 11:39 PM with 17 comment(s)

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icarusr said:

Or, there is a core of brain-dead Zombies who would side with the Republican ticket if a corpse were heading it.

October 2, 2008 11:52 PM

scire said:

"deja vu"MEANS all over again!

October 2, 2008 11:58 PM

CharlesFosterKane said:

(crosses fingers)

October 3, 2008 12:02 AM

fougasseu said:

In Minnesota, we're feeling this is Jesse Ventura all over again.

He'd grin derisively when his opponents would be talking, he'd never answer a question, just belch out weird colloquialisms. He was this odd white trash populist that was so fascinating, we fell for it.

He hated poltics and politicians, which is a bit odd coming from someone obsessed with the power of it all.

Jesse Ventura with lipstick...yuck.

October 3, 2008 12:02 AM

Nippers said:

God, I hope your supposition is right. If Palin proves that the "have-a-beer-with" test is no longer dispositive, she will have done the nation a favor. But hell, I never wanted to have a beer with Bush either. I'd take a snifter of sour-mash with Gore over a beer with Bush or Palin anyday. But what I'd really like after tonight is for Americans to make a sound, sober choice and put Biden in the office of the Vice President, then go get themselves their own gosh dern heckuva drinking buddies.

October 3, 2008 12:05 AM

icarusr said:

scire - it's a joke - a Yogi Berra malapropism - something Shrub might say ;-) like Darryl F Zanuck's "Include me out".

October 3, 2008 12:05 AM

timteeter said:

Good news.  Roger Simon thinks Sarah Palin won.  That guarantees that the CW will favor Biden.

October 3, 2008 12:06 AM

shirhatti said:

"This is like deja vu all over again."

 --  Yogi Berra

October 3, 2008 12:07 AM

scire said:

obama and biden don't have similar personalities except for a few important ways: they're both gentleman -- genuinely nice people, and they're both calm. Also, they're both smart. I think democrats have this handwringing reflex of assuming that the country wants the guy they wanna drink a beer with and who wants to fight fight fight.  But you know what, I don't think they do. Not this time. Plus, Palin kept on going on about lower taxes. We've all seen the irrelevance of that to a strong economy this week. People aren't biting.

The republicans have become an anachronism. And they just don't get it. If they did, they'd stop going on about small taxes and government and trying to scare people about Obama's liberalism. Liberalism is looking damn good to people these days.Between the debate and the last coupla  weekw, America is no longer afraid to take the risk. The risk is no longer as scary as what we've had.

October 3, 2008 12:10 AM

CharlesFosterKane said:

For what it's worth, CW really does seem to be sticking to the "Palin holds her own" with the right unembarrassingly embracing "Palin kicked Joe's ass" (while still finding time to whine about Ifill, who was indisputably NOT out to get Palin tonight). Will this change? Who knows. We'll probably all forget there was a debate within a few days.

October 3, 2008 12:17 AM

Wasatcher said:

Anyone see Reese Witherspoon as the smiling high school politician in "Election"? Anyone see Nicloe Kidman in "To Die For"? Talk about deja vu!

What I wonder is this: most women know this archetype, the smiling prom queen who is pure mean ambition underneath. The CNN reports from Ohio seem to indicate that women didn't like when Palin attacked at least some of the time. So, are women out there seeing the class president they looked up to, or are they seeing the cheerleader who would steal your prom date just for fun?

And Biden came away looking more like the nurturing parent!

October 3, 2008 12:34 AM

JEFF FREY said:

"And Biden came away looking more like the nurturing parent!"

Which might very well be true....

October 3, 2008 1:00 AM

fougasseu said:

Wasatcher: You nailed it - Kidman in "To Die For". I'd love to see Kidman "do a Palin" for SNL.

We may have seen the first candidate to emerge from the culture of Talk Radio - humorless and arrogant (Coulter), mercilessly self-confident (Limbaugh), endlessly chipper (Hannity), graceless and cold, a white trash populist who hates the media, who hates being challenged, with a disdain for formal education. God help us.

October 3, 2008 6:16 AM

guyminuslife said:

I wonder if the 36% that thought she won includes the 26% that thinks Bush is doing a bang-up job.

October 3, 2008 7:38 AM

dbhuff said:

I think you've hit it. I think Biden won too but for different reasons. I'm afraid you don't give the people, esp. independents, enough credit. Palin's answers were surface, skin of a bubble, that once pricked would pop. Biden was deep, with obvious years of experience and authority. Interestingly, Biden was what McCain tried to be in his debate. But instead of simply repeating his resume, he showed how that informed his answers. When Biden said "I still haven't heard a plan", he made it clear what the bar for listeners was, and for the thoughtful middle, Biden again and again showed depth, reason, and confidence. And when Palin tried to win on the 'Joe Sixpack" points, Biden matched her, but with real thoughts, not talking points. Palin should never have tried to out-sixpack Biden. Palin was all show, right wing platitudes, even reusing 'zingers' from the past ("You were for it before you were against it", "There you go again.") This will excite the Right as the "Real Palin", but in fact, there is no There there, and that is transparently obvious if not blinded by partisan feelings. She is in fact the caricature of Obama that McCain would like to paint. Even calling the senator "Obiden" at one point. But she doesn't have Obama's facility with the issues, or his rhetorical skills. If you were looking for the 'bulldog' you will be happy, but if you were looking for how someone would govern, 'Obiden' wins hands down.

So when people analyze the substance of Biden and the lack thereof in Palin, they realize that in uncertain times more than most, having a real plan is important. Obiden has a plan, McPalin's plan is to not have a plan. Which would make you feel more comforted if you pension is melting?

PS: I do wish that Biden, after Palin had demured to answer Iffel's question, had said in his next response "I'm not afraid to answer your questions or any questions from a journalist, as you know. In fact, I often bore them to tears when I do!"

October 3, 2008 7:56 AM

teplukhin2you said:

it's the economy, stupid. no one's voting on iraq.

mccain and palin's economic precriptions simply aern't relevant to the economic situation faced by some 60% of the electorate

October 3, 2008 8:47 AM

williamyard said:

I think it's less about policy and more about how they approach policy, which derives from their personal character traits: unapologetic competence versus gleeful ignorance, sobriety versus immaturity.

When Obama and Biden discussed foreign policy, they demonstrated that they were more likely to fix our economic travails. Why? Because, when they discussed foreign policy (and everything else), they were sober and knowledgeable--i.e., competent. McCain/Palin, OTOH, even when discussing foreign affairs, sound intemperate and shallow.

Voters are aware of the financial situation and, while still not totally up on the details, are extremely motivated to interact with their representatives on the subject. Witness this morning's crash of HR's email servers when they were hit by waves of millions of emails from constituents weighing in on the bailout. Voters do not want cheerleaders. They want an offensive coordinator, a defensive line coach, a middle linebacker who can read run vs. pass, a QB who can read secondaries, a TE who can get off his block, a blind-side guard with quick feet, a WR not afraid to get hammered on crossing patterns, another wideout with Olympic 100 speed, and a safety who puts two receivers a year on injured reserve. They know they're near the bottom of the standings, looking up.

Voters know that the bailout is just one tube of cauking in a mile-long crack in the levee, and if the levee breaks we're all in deep doo-doo. They know the solution is complex and requires intelligence, discernment, an ability to prioritize, if not triage, complexity, and an appreciation for nuance. In other words, they know our economic problems need the raw abilities and sober approaches exemplified by Obama and Biden both in their debates and in the greater campaign, abilities and approaches that McCain and Palin thus far have yet to demonstrate they possess.

October 3, 2008 4:31 PM