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COLUMNISTS
TODAY'S STORIES
09.09.2008
Ceding the Constitution

Amidst the left's Great McCain Bounce Panic come some genuinely distressing polling numbers, courtesy of Rasmussen via Orin Kerr:

While 82% of voters who support McCain believe [Supreme Court] justices should rule on what is in the Constitution, just 29% of Barack Obama’s supporters agree. Just 11% of McCain supporters say judges should rule based on the judge’s sense of fairness, while nearly half (49%) of Obama supporters agree.

Of course there are the usual caveats about interpreting delicately worded polling prompts like this one, which dramatically oversimplifies a complicated set of questions about what exactly it is that courts do. Still, this reflects very poorly on Democrats. Less than a third of Obama voters are willing to sign on to a fundamental tenet of American government that you learn in elementary school civics class, and half think that judges should just make it all up as they go along. (After a full five days of law school, I find this quite disturbing--have Obama's supporters no shame about admitting this to a pollster!?)

Now, since it seems unlikely that many Americans spend much time weighing the relative merits of different methods of judicial decisionmaking, it's a fairly safe bet that voters are largely reflecting the rhetoric they hear from political elites: Republicans talk about enforcing the law, while Democrats talk about fairness. Not only does this put liberals at a huge rhetorical disadvantage, but it makes Democratic voters look stupid when they parrot that rhetoric back to pollsters. All the more reason for prominent Democratic politicians to start making an affirmative case that conservative jurisprudence is actually wrong, not just that it sometimes leads to undesirable outcomes. And if liberals can't make that case, they should get out of Justice Thomas's way, take their marbles, and go home.

--Josh Patashnik

Posted: Tuesday, September 09, 2008 1:39 AM with 26 comment(s)

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FWright said:

After the second week, you'll realize that judges often do make it up as they go along, and always have.  Maybe the third.  The Obama voters are right to be skeptical.

September 9, 2008 2:28 AM

CraigMcGil said:

Republicans spend a lot of time claiming that the Supreme court is just making it up as they go along and that instead they should just interpret the law. Progressives should start saying the same thing and then continue to defend Roe v. Wade etc.

September 9, 2008 2:50 AM

aeromonas said:

"rule on what is in the Constitution"

Isn't that the crucial line?  Democrats are gunshy of the the strict constructionists, and rightly so.  The Reagan/Bush appointees have redefined "what is in the Constitution" in a way that most liberals don't much like.  If we were still relying on the Warren court's interpretation of "what is in the Constitution" the results of this poll would probably be much different.

September 9, 2008 3:03 AM

bradigan said:

This is an idiotic poll question for the reasons aeromonas states.  I would decline to answer.

September 9, 2008 5:27 AM

WaltB said:

The problem with this poll is that most McCain supporters don't even know what is in the Constitution in the first place.  Georgie swore to uphold it, but doesn't know what's in it.  It's also much the same with most Americans - we weren't even really taught what it contains back in grade school (too deep for our little heads), and never had any further exposure to it through adulthood.  The poll is more on opinions and what's in people's heads than what the document actually contains.

September 9, 2008 7:14 AM

anonevent said:

If Justice Thomas is the definition of deciding what is in the constitution, then no wonder Democrats want no part of that.  His "constitution" seems to have more with what's on the back side of a box of Ex-Lax.

September 9, 2008 8:26 AM

Robert Powell said:

I agree with Josh that this poll makes Democrats look bad, and for the very sound reason that it reflects what's been the dominant Party Line for many years.

Conservative jurisprudence is not only not "wrong", it has a great deal to recommend it. Democrats don't "make that case" because they can't. Leftist jurisprudence has given us the Nuremberg Laws, Moscow show trials, and facilitated the near-destruction of poor families in American cities over the last half of the last century. A conservative interpretation of the law gave us the basis of the civil rights victories  and much else.

September 9, 2008 8:46 AM

drdannyu said:

Hey, chemist.  If you're reading this thread, here is where I concede that Obama supporters are not above stupidity themselves.

September 9, 2008 9:18 AM

tomhilliard said:

It's hard to know what's going on here. The plainest reading of the poll is that many voters don't understand that courts interpret the law, especially liberals. But the poll also notes that the Supreme Court's favorability ratings went up sharply among conservatives after it ruled in favor of the NRA position on gun control. So conservatives are not so much possessed of a superior understanding of constitutional law as they are pleased that the Supreme Court took their side on an issue. Yet conservatives also support Justice Clarence Thomas, who believes that Natural Law - that is, universally valid moral principles - should guide his court decisions.  

I suspect that many respondents simply didn't like the choices Rasmussen gave them. They want both: rulings based on the Constitution and jurisprudence, and interpretation of the Constitution imbued  with a sense of justice and fairness. The liberals who opted for "fairness" in this poll may well be protesting against a Supreme Court that they believe has forgotten how to be fair. Given the outcome of the Lily Ledbetter case, who could disagree with them?

Voters probably are uninformed about the role of courts in our political system, but not in the simplistic way that Rasmussen's poll suggests.

September 9, 2008 9:52 AM

tgolomb said:

Oh, Josh.  When you have perhaps more than 5 days of law school under your belt, you will understand that very intelligent legal minds -- from Justice Holmes and Justice Brandeis through Judge Posner and Justice Scalia -- have been grappling with the exact same issue.  Indeed, no less a "conservative" or law and economics guru such as Judge Posner often finds no use of legal precedent at all, prefering to rely on his sense of "fairness", which is often (rightly or wrongly) based on economic analysis.

So, as you will learn one day, young man, this is a battle that neither side(s) ever stands on strong ground, and is best to understand the bases of various approaches (e.g, textualism, use of legislative history, law and economics, legal realism, etc.).  This certainly applies to constitutional interpretation as well as applying any other statute, rule or ordinance.  And that the American people would be guided by their own "instincts" -- whether liberal or conservative -- is not surprising when our liberal elite on the judiciary and academia certainly are as well.

What is more important -- among said elite, in particular -- is a tad more humility.  Your bravado about "marbles" is really silly.  Especially when your read Bush v. Gore one of these days.

September 9, 2008 10:27 AM

ChanRobt said:

Bravely stated, Josh.

I expect you'll be fired by tnr tomorrow.

September 9, 2008 10:44 AM

Nippers said:

An apropos topic, given the impassioned and well-informed defense of the Constitution that a prominent professor of Constitutional Law delivered in Michigan yesterday. An excerpt, via the Washington Post's The Trail blog:

Obama, who taught constitutional law at the University of Chicago for more than a decade, said captured suspects deserve to file writs of habeus corpus.

Calling it "the foundation of Anglo-American law," he said the principle "says very simply: If the government grabs you, then you have the right to at least ask, 'Why was I grabbed?' And say, 'Maybe you've got the wrong person.'"

The safeguard is essential, Obama continued, "because we don't always have the right person."

"We don't always catch the right person," he said. "We may think it's Mohammed the terrorist, but it might be Mohammed the cab driver. You might think it's Barack the bomb-thrower, but it might be Barack the guy running for president."

Obama turned back to Palin's comment, although he said he was not sure whether Palin or Rudy Giuliani said it.

"The reason that you have this principle is not to be soft on terrorism. It's because that's who we are. That's what we're protecting," Obama said, his voice growing louder and the crowd rising to its feet to cheer. "Don't mock the Constitution. Don't make fun of it. Don't suggest that it's not American to abide by what the founding fathers set up. It's worked pretty well for over 200 years."

September 9, 2008 10:58 AM

glacialspeed said:

Robert Powell, Leftist jurisprudence also brought us Brown v. Board, a not-too-shabby civil rights victory.  

September 9, 2008 10:58 AM

ChanRobt said:

glacialspeed, as far as I can tell, Brown v Board was decided on pretty firm Constitutional grounds.

September 9, 2008 11:08 AM

ryanmacd said:

Are you kidding? Really?

"rule on what is written in the Constitution" What a ruddlerless, asinine question. What does it even mean?

Due Process of law. Clearly judges should rule on what is written! Due Process means...um...oh. Let's look at Founder's intent! Ratification debates! Oh wait, not "written in the Constitution." I rule that... Since any expansion of what due process means is IMPORTING FOREIGN MEANINGS into "what is written in the Constitution," any interpretation of what is written expands the text and violates the condition.

Stupid...f-ing...question.

September 9, 2008 11:10 AM

citizenghost said:

".... as far as I can tell, Brown v Board was decided on pretty firm Constitutional grounds."

On firm Constitutional grounds?  Yes.  

But not on "strict construction" grounds and certainly not on "Original Intent" grounds.  

September 9, 2008 11:27 AM

ericad said:

Elementary school civics class?  Gosh, what district would that be in?  We never had civics but had a semester of Government in 11th grade (that was 1980-81).  And I'm guessing with No Child Left Behind and its emphasis on the 3 Rs (or maybe even just 2 of them by now) and scoring well on tests, I don't think ANYONE is getting civics or government anymore.  I have often posited that we'd have a much more willingly and accurately informed electorate that might be less easily manipulated if people knew what government (in each branch) could and should do.  Especially that balance of power thing.  And questions like this one.  Another reason educational reform is so important.  

September 9, 2008 12:25 PM

ironyroad said:

"Leftist jurisprudence has given us the Nuremberg Laws."

Er . .  no.  Authoritarian and conservative state-centered jurisprudence on the lines of Nazi professor Carl Schimtt's theory of the "Ausnahmezustand," allied with a racist public policy, of course, gave us the Nuremberg Laws.

September 9, 2008 12:54 PM

JEFF FREY said:

This is actually a dumb poll question. Of course justices should rule based on the Constitution. But if it is crystal-clear what the Constitution says about an issue, then it most likely never gets to the Supreme Court. The Supremes take on cases where there is dispute about what the Constitution says.

Meanwhile, justices like Scalia claim that they strictly interpret the text of the Constitution and the original intent of the framers, and by coincidence this almost always lead to right-wing decisions. I suspect the poll answers are more an opinion on that style of jurisprudence.

September 9, 2008 1:44 PM

Robert Powell said:

ironyroad--

please note that "authoritarian and... state-centered jurisprudence" is almost by definition leftist jurisprudence. The excesses of Nazi statism are indistinguishable from the excesses of Stalinist statism.

Conservatism in modern terms can be condensed to "respect for the individual, mistrust for government, and belief in America's uniquely good and enlightened position in the world". American conservatives are interested in "conserving" the radical liberalism of the late 18th Century.

September 9, 2008 4:25 PM

JEFF FREY said:

Robert Powell, counter-examples include:

Franco, the former Portuguese military regime, Pinochet, the Argentine junta, 40-some years of rule in Paraguay. The Somoza regime in Nicaragua, perhaps (not sure that was state-centered rather than just caudillo-centered). Communists enjoyed a numerical advantage, though.

September 9, 2008 6:26 PM

ironyroad said:

RP-- that's not what German conservatism meant, and your statement is a ludicrous attempt to attach to the German Left (the democratic Left at least) the responsibility for the Nazi justice it became a victim of.  Leftist jurisprudence is, if anything, the struggle over the last 150 years or so to bring a recognition of social context and social pressure to bear upon judicial decisions, e.g. as in the creation of a separate court system for children or young people.

That Nazi and Stalinist courts operated similarly says a lot about Stalinism and fascism, and nothing about the broader Left (e.g. social democracy, the larger and longest lasting tradition).

September 9, 2008 11:27 PM

The Volokh Conspiracy said:

In response to the poll showing the dramatic gap between McCain and Obama supporters on whether they want the Supreme Court to follow the written Constitution a...

September 10, 2008 12:44 AM

Robert Powell said:

Jeff and irony--

Please note the key word "statism", which is on the left extreme from the individualism that's enshrined in our founding documents.

September 10, 2008 5:59 AM

ironyroad said:

The terminology of our founding documents is completely irrelevant when discussing the history of German conservatism (especially the Prussian tradition), which had none of the underpinnings of classical Liberalism that influenced American political theory.  Nazi jurisprudence was a fascist variant of the conservative jurisprudence of the Kaiserreich.

September 10, 2008 1:03 PM

PointOfLaw Forum said:

Some disturbing poll numbers on public views of the Supreme Court's role (more)....

September 11, 2008 10:31 AM