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COLUMNISTS
TODAY'S STORIES
01.09.2008
Today's Polls: Eye of the Storm

There are more important things to worry about than the state of the horse race today, but several polling firms have released data within the past 24 hours. Barack Obama maintains a 6-point lead in the Gallup tracker (although both candidates gained a point against undecided), and a 3-point lead in the Rasmussen tracker. CNN shows it a bit tighter still, with Obama holding a 2-point lead with third party candidates included an a 1-point lead without. Finally, there is a hot-off-the-presses CBS News poll showing Obama 8 points ahead.

Really, I think we're best off ignoring the polls until about the middle of next week. I could see any of a number of things happening over the course of the Republican Convention. Perhaps Obama will maintain his (small) bounce if the Sarah Palin selection has already brought home the base votes that the Republicans were hoping to win during the convention. Perhaps McCain will deliver a dramatic acceptance speech against the backdrop of Hurricane Gustav and move several points ahead. Perhaps the election will revert to a tie.

My hunch, however, is that once everything settles down, we are going to see that Obama has gained a couple of points from the convention cycle and will have something like a 2-4 point national lead. The reason is simply that the Democrats seemed to "find their voice" during their convention, bringing home a bread-and-butter message about the failures of the status quo, whereas the Republicans will be forced to retool theirs in the wake of Gustav and the Palin selection.

--Nate Silver

Posted: Monday, September 01, 2008 5:19 PM with 24 comment(s)

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jacksondyer said:

The CBS poll is faulty:

it has obama-Biden vs. McCain-Palin now and before the convention.

Well there was no McCain Palin before the convention!

At best the CBS poll shows a little bump for Obama which is not confirmed by other polls.

September 1, 2008 6:16 PM

michael said:

In a post a few days ago I suggested a break from guessing and I also wondered how much historical data will aid you and your crystal ball until we near the end of this

[From 8-30]

Take a break Nate. You earned it and you won't have any data to plug into anything with historical relevance. McCain got weird and he got too weird for your chemistry.

It will be at least ten to fifteen more days before any poll settles down to offer any predictive value. Unless there is an event which we can account for now? I doubt we'll see much stability in any survey prior to the middle of September. And no, Palin didn't come close to moving McCain's number up over the long term and before the end of September she may prove to be his worst move.

No, this isn't baseball and no team would inject a Palin into the lineup in September. But do explain how one can reach back and find a similar game-changer which can compare to Mrs. Moose.

September 1, 2008 6:34 PM

willpastor said:

Jackson Dyer, what are you talking about? Rasmussen, Gallup Tracking, CBS and USA Today/Gallup all show a bounce for Obama. And all of these polls were taken after Palin was named (see Real Clear Politics if you want confirmation), so they take any possible Palin bounce into account.

Oh, and more Palin dirt. It's not really clear she puts America first. Via PoliticalWire:

Officials of the Alaskan Independence Party say that Alaska Gov. Sarah Palin (R) "was once a member of their party, which since the 1970s has been pushing for a legal vote for Alaskans to decide whether or not residents of the 49th state can secede from the United States," reports ABC News.

The AIP platform states that the purpose of the party is to "seek the complete repatriation of the public lands, held by the federal government, to the state and people of Alaska in conformance with Article 1, Section 8, Clause 17, of the federal constitution ... To prohibit all bureaucratic regulations and judicial rulings purporting to have the effect of law, except that which shall be approved by the elected legislature ... To support the privatization of government services ..."

September 1, 2008 8:56 PM

timteeter said:

Predictions:

Gustav will be a wash, on balance neither helping nor hurting the GOP particularly.

Palin will be a small net minus, not deeply damaging, but not any sort of "game changer" either--unless she makes a complete fool of herself, which i doubt.  

September 1, 2008 9:28 PM

desmondclee said:

Zogby's latest poll shows McCain up by two points.  Don't know how reliable that is, but that's what it says.

September 1, 2008 9:56 PM

Eos said:

OBAMA HAS A SMALL ONE

see the following:

www.politico.com/.../13068.html

September 1, 2008 9:58 PM

GSpinks said:

JD, "it has obama-Biden vs. McCain-Palin now and before the convention"

The poll explicitily indicates that the pre-convention polling did not include VP names. It is right there below the table: "*Asked WITHOUT VPs".

September 1, 2008 10:30 PM

woland said:

Another revelation about Palin:  She DID NOT win Ms. Congeniality in the Wasilla Beauty Contest according to a classmate who claims that she and not Palin won it.

www.stltoday.com/.../23D7A0CF8A2E3A61862574B50011DB30

The hits are coming in so fast and furious I can hardly keep up.

September 1, 2008 10:38 PM

timteeter said:

The Zogby poll was one of their internet interactive polls.  Hardly reliable.

Several polls have Obama ahead substantially.  A few have him tied more-or-less with McCain.

The RCP average before the Democratic convention gave Obama a less than 2 point lead.  It now gives him almost five points.  Not a huge bounce, but real--and I never thought, given the nature of this year's politics and the closeness of the conventions, that there would be a huge bounce.  BTW, I don't expect a big bounce for McCain either, regardless of Gustav.

September 1, 2008 10:39 PM

desmondclee said:

Obama has a small one?  Hey, this is a family board, isn't it?  LOL

September 1, 2008 10:43 PM

desmondclee said:

Anyone here think that the Bradley/Wilder effect may be at play at all?  

Any thoughts?

September 1, 2008 10:44 PM

desmondclee said:

tim,

I'm aware of the interactive poll that Zogby does, but there are some that still swear by it.  At any rate, I'm not sure about your assertion that most have Obama "substantially" ahead.  In fact, most I've seen have it as a dead heat (e.g., Rasmussen and CNN).  

September 1, 2008 10:50 PM

willpastor said:

The Zogby poll is an internet poll. A complicated internet poll but still one with a terrible track record.

And Eos, I'm not sure how you know that "OBAMA HAS A SMALL ONE" and I was under the impression that Obama doesn't swing that way, if you catch my drift. As for his bounce, it is essentially impossible to measure because Palin was named the day after the convention, providing a counterbounce. During the convention however, Obama rose in Gallup's tracking from -2 to +8, and Rasmussen from 0 to 4. Although Gallup doesn't give a day to day breakdown, it was probably even higher on the last day of the convention, as these polls are rolling averages. So Obama had a very appreciable bounce, thank you very much, especially considering that bounces have been smaller and polls have been less volatile for the last decade or so.

September 1, 2008 10:50 PM

timteeter said:

desmondclee,

Rasmussen tracking has Obama up by three.  Not a "dead heat."

See

www.realclearpolitics.com/.../general_election_mccain_vs_obama-225.html

In addition to the RCP polls, see also USAToday/Gallup, which has McCain 43, Obama 50, and was also conducted through the 31st, i.e. after the Palin pick.

Mind you, unless Sarah Palin turns into another Tom Eagleton (a small but real possibility--see Elisabeth Bumiller in today's NYTimes), I don't expect even this modest but real bump to last.  As Nate suggests, the race will return to "normal"--a small but discernible lead for Obama--sometime not long after the Republican convention.          

September 1, 2008 11:13 PM

desmondclee said:

Obama' s camp doesn't think much of the polls, and, like I mentioned before, is there any Bradley/Wilder effect here?  The other thing is that national polls don't mean nearly as much as the Electoral College polls.

As for polls, it's a good thing there's actually a contest to actually decide a winner.  (Anyone follow college football here?)

September 1, 2008 11:30 PM

desmondclee said:

I think three is basically a dead heat, at least the way I view it.  I also think that if you're in the BCS finalists, you still got a shot at the National Title, but that's just my view of the polls.  

September 1, 2008 11:32 PM

scrubbyoak said:

I don't know how much Bradely or reverse Bradely effect there is on the national polls, desmondclee. These things are subjective and very hard to tell. My hunch is that even after they are factored in, both candidates would still be within the margin of error, essentially tied in other words.

September 1, 2008 11:58 PM

tjlinko said:

Another comment about polls. First of all, these notions that you can tell anything from these fluctuations of 2-3 points one way or the other is silly. it means nothing given the margin of error, which is plus or minus 3 pts (for each candidate) or thereabouts, in all of these polls.

Also, figure that Obama's convention climaxed on Thursday, McCain countered with his running mate announcement on Friday, and then people were gone for the 3-day weekend, making any polling over that period highly suspect.

Bottom line is, I think Obama gets a net bounce out of this period because most of the Hillary people  will come home. While Palin will energize the base, this is very likely to boomerang on McCain. His principle argument is that he's the steady experienced hand, but increasingly it looks like he recklessly botched the first real test of any presidential candidate--by not picking a VP nominee who is up to the job.

Already, you can see the McCain surrogates on the cable shows basically wincing as they try to defend the pick. It's embarrasing.

September 2, 2008 5:13 AM

Eos said:

willpastor,

the link under "OBAMA HAS A SMALL ONE" takes you to a Politico article from late yesterday , entitle "Obama's Bounce Smaller Than Others,'"which analyzes the polls and says he got a smaller bounce than is usual for candidates coming out of their conventions. Here is the link again.

www.politico.com/.../13068.html

September 2, 2008 7:16 AM

Eos said:

tjlinko,

Either that, or he has made a brilliant pick. Outside of the lefty blogs, the response to Palin has been much more positive. I think it alll going to depend on how well she does now, in answering questions, in making speeches, in the debate. See this piece from Politico for an example of what I mean:

www.politico.com/.../13062.html

September 2, 2008 7:20 AM

timteeter said:

FWIW, Obama is actually *up* in today's Rasmussen, which surprised me, now leading McCain by six points (so much for MOE) and finally cracking the 50% barrier.

September 2, 2008 10:52 AM

Mickey Weinber said:

And now comes the kid named Bristol and the NRA shotgun wedding.

Quick, before his first reaction:  how will jacksondyer spin this? And how would he have reacted if it were Obama's daughter (assuming she were a few years older)?

September 2, 2008 12:16 PM

Wandreycer1 said:

"CBS) Democratic nominee Barack Obama's lead over Republican John McCain has grown after the Democratic convention, which 71 percent of Americans say they watched. Obama and his running mate Joe Biden now lead McCain and Sarah Palin 48 percent to 40 percent, according to the latest CBS News poll.

This is the first CBS News poll to include the vice presidential candidates in the horserace question."

September 2, 2008 12:21 PM

sleepyavl said:

These polls are meaningless, unless they are done anonymously. People lie.

September 2, 2008 10:45 PM