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COLUMNISTS
TODAY'S STORIES
22.08.2008
Flashback: Biden on Obama, Experience

If Joe Biden is indeed Barack Obama's pick for running mate, you can bet John McCain's campaign will go through the primary campaign, hunting for Biden quotes that make Obama look bad. That is fair game.

But having spent a little time reviewing Biden's primary run, I've been struck by how cautious Biden was in his statements. Biden talked constantly about the importance of experience--and the fact that he had the most of it. It was the centerpiece of his campaign. But, for the most part, he couched those arguments in general terms. He was usually comparing himself to the entire field of Democrats, not just one rival. And even on those occasions where he did talk about Obama, he did so with surprising nuance.

Take, for example, this quote that just appeared in my inbox. It's from an interview conducted a year ago by Seth Gitell, a veteran journalist and friend who now writes for the New York Sun. The material didn't appear as part of the original article, but he's just published it on his website:

You know he’s a very smart guy. I can’t speak for me. But I know for me that it was a learning experience. I worked very hard. I’m sure he’s working very hard too. I’ve watched seven presidents, and I’ve watched presidents who have come to office who haven’t thought through some of the areas that theyt’ve never worked in, for example foreign policy. I watched several presidents come in and they’re smart as the devil and they get here and unless you already know when you get here exactly what your foreign policy is, it’s awful hard to hit the ground running and not to make serious mistakes the first couple of years. I’m not saying that senator obama is where I was [when elected to the senate at age 29]. I was younger than he was when he got to the Senate. But I do think, I acknowledge that experience is not the issue, it’s whether your experience has been good or bad. Somebody with 34 years of bad experience isn’t perfectly qualified to be president, someone with 34 years of good experience that makes a big difference. So, again, I know it’s kindo f difficult to master, it’s kind of difficult to feel sure-footed in a lot of areas that you haven’t spent a long of time dealing with.

As these sorts of quotes go, it's relatively mild. Biden doesn't actually say Obama lacks the experience to be president. In fact, he explicitly leaves open the possibility that Obama is ready for office.

I know of at least one more Biden quote along these lines, referenced here in this August, 2007 debate: "I think he can be ready, but right now I don't believe he is. The presidency is not something that lends itself to on-the-job training." Again, as campaign criticisms go, it isn't that awful. Biden can always say a lot has happened in the year since he said that. (He got to know Obama better, etc.)

Of course, there may be other, more damning statements out there. But if this is as bad as it gets--and if, again, Biden is the nominee--I don't think Biden's past rhetoric will pose much of a poiltical problem. (And, for the record, I don't think it should. Obama's lack of experience in foreign policy isn't ideal, but the judgment he's shown--combined with the intellect--makes me think he's up for the job. It seems perfectly reasonable to me that Biden has come to the same conclusion.)

Update: Just to clarify, it's obviously not a good thing that these quotes are out there. I'm just saying they could be much, much worse, given that Biden and Obama were rivals for the presidency just a few months ago. 

--Jonathan Cohn 


Posted: Friday, August 22, 2008 10:47 PM with 32 comment(s)

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eharder2 said:

But, Biden has bad hair.  Can't people see what is really important here.

August 22, 2008 11:52 PM

Jonathan Cohn said:

If only good hair made a difference politically.  Then John Kerry would be president.

August 22, 2008 11:59 PM

jyunis said:

I too, was perusing old Biden primary speeches (mostly youtube videos of him stumping in Iowa), and as I watched these clips, I began to think that the real problem might not be his mild shots at Obama (or the issue of experience, etc), but instead his deep knowledge of, and strong feelings for, policy details. This is a guy who has been legislating for over 30 years, with a comprehensive knowledge and opinion on many issues; how easy is it going to be to get him in line with all of Obama's policy proposals? If Biden ends up going off message, I would think it would be in this regard, and not in terms of some abstract political points about "experience."

August 23, 2008 12:19 AM

rozenson said:

"Obama doesn't actually say Obama lacks the experience to be president."

I believe you meant Biden, there.

You're right about Biden's lack of harsh criticism towards Obama. The Republicans were able to dig up a video clip of John Kerry talking to a crowd of veterans in January 2004 or somesuch, and Kerry remarked that he didn't know if John Edwards "was out of diapers" by the time Kerry got back from Vietnam. Talk about a loose yapper . . .

August 23, 2008 12:22 AM

mkayser0 said:

The other tricky thing is that Biden will be relied upon to critique McCain's foreign policy principles, but Obama and Biden disagree regarding the Iraq AUMF.

Joe (to my knowledge) has not disavowed his AUMF vote as Edwards did. And this was always Obama's ace in the hole when it comes to foreign policy judgement -- Obama rightly opposed the war.

Obama's (assumed) selection of Joe means obviously that Obama thinks Joe would be a decent president. Ergo, support for the AUMF does not disqualify one's foreign policy judgement.

It will be interesting to see how Obama plays this. And whether Joe winds up disavowing his vote.

One possibility involves a pivot away from "the war was a bad idea" to "Everybody agrees we should have a victorious exit from Iraq according to a timetable -- except McCain." Obama truly does have some other feathers in his cap right now, given the convergence on a timetable for withdrawal.

August 23, 2008 12:39 AM

jacobt1 said:

" but the judgment he's shown--combined with the intellect--convinces me he's up for the job."

Obama he's shown a bad  judgment  by choosing Biden who  he's shown the same bad judgment  as Clinton and the rest of senate leadership by voting for the Iraqi war.

August 23, 2008 12:54 AM

JosephCuomo said:

CNN just said it's Biden.

August 23, 2008 1:00 AM

GSpinks said:

"how easy is it going to be to get him in line with all of Obama's policy proposals?"

Sounds like just the kind of person Obama has been describing for his ideal VP.

August 23, 2008 1:01 AM

mkayser0 said:

Well, the cat's out of the bag. I would give it a 10 percent chance the "anonymous source" who confirmed the news to AP was ... Joe Biden. Or at least, that would be hilariously fitting given the concerns about message discipline.

August 23, 2008 1:01 AM

Jonathan Cohn said:

Thanks rozenson. Gotta get some sleep.

August 23, 2008 1:09 AM

GSpinks said:

Jacob, agreed this is not ideal. But there are going to be negatives to the VP no matter who the candidate picks. I think the goal here is to get the person who has enough of the right positives.

August 23, 2008 1:29 AM

scire said:

Well, it's officially Biden, and I'm happy. Biden is by far the best choice. He'll be loyal, he's funny and warm and yes, sometimes speaks off the cuff, but that's all a good contrast to Obama. And I bet older democratic voters who were worried about Obama's inexperience and youth will feel a lot more comfortable voting for him. And Biden will give good advice, but he won't overrun or try to dominate  Obama -he'll be respectful and supportive, I'm certain. Plus he's got that white working class catholic thing going for him. ANd he's got his own terrific bio going: even though he's been in Washington for decades, he takes the train from Delaware every morning, which detracts from that, his son will be going to Iraq, he's suffered tragedy and come through, his family is very close knit, he continues to teach law, etc. etc.

ANd Obama forgave him the gaffe he made about him -- which looks good for Obama now that he's chosen him.

Terrific choice. THey'll be a great team.

McCain's gotta be sweating now.

August 23, 2008 1:30 AM

teplukhin2you said:

McCain would have been sweating had Obama chosen Hillary. Now the PUMAs are in play.

Re Biden, he'd win easily if he were where he belongs, in the top slot on the ticket. As #2, he won't make any difference. He won't be C-in-C.

August 23, 2008 2:18 AM

mkayser0 said:

Dollars to donuts McCain has a commercial regarding the "experience" dustup, released before the official announcement has even been made. (They'll have to wait until at least 11am Eastern, so as not to wake everybody up on the West coast).

August 23, 2008 2:28 AM

guyminuslife said:

Jonathan, I think you meant to say John Edwards.

August 23, 2008 2:54 AM

LDuncan said:

The Obama narrative will be simple.  Biden said in August that Obama was not yet ready.  Obama has a strong enough sense of self that he would not disqualify someone merely for criticizing him.  Indeed, in December, at Des Moines debate, Obama very nicely came to Biden's defense on the charge that Biden had made racially insensitive gaffes.  Again, it shows Obama is not small or petty or vindictive.  Biden will say that he was wrong about Obama's readiness just as he was wrong about Iraq invasion, and that having seen Obama in action at debates and on trail, he now thinks he is ready.

The main post is right.  Whenever a nominee picks a former rival there will be potent quotables.  People are often dumb but not so dumb that they don't discount what rivals have said in the heat of a campaign.

August 23, 2008 3:08 AM

teplukhin2you said:

"Biden will say that he was wrong about Obama's readiness... having seen Obama in action at debates and on trail, he now thinks he is ready"

Biden's mastery of foreign policy underscores Obama's lightness. The only way for Biden to convincingly argue otherwise is to cease displaying his own mastery of f-p, ie shut up on anything of substance and play attack dog 100% of the time. Knowing Joe, that's not very likely.

August 23, 2008 3:23 AM

mkayser0 said:

There's that text! At 3:20AM, no less. I guess they decided this allows them to both (1) defend themselves directly tomorrow morning after John McCain starts his attacks, and (2) let people get back to sleep after waking them up, since it's still dark out for another hour or two.

August 23, 2008 3:24 AM

WoodyBombay said:

But tep, days ago you were saying Veep Biden was Obama's only hope!

Now you're saying it's a bad fit?

Which is it?

August 23, 2008 3:30 AM

teplukhin2you said:

Biden's necessary, but he's not sufficient. I never thought or said that choosing Biden would put Obama over the top, or that it was a "good fit", just that it was Obama's only option, given that he's in a desperate position now that we're in another cold war with a thuggish mafioso regime in Russia and given that Obama completely ruled out choosing Hillary. He didn't have any alternative to choosing Biden.

Necessary, not sufficient. Why is this so hard for you to understand?

August 23, 2008 4:50 AM

aeromonas said:

"Voodoo economics"  George HW Bush on Ronald Reagan's economic plans.

Didn't seem to hurt Ronnie much.

August 23, 2008 6:35 AM

aeromonas said:

C'mon tep.  You're all over the fucking place.  It's beginning to seem that your first consideration in formulating any statement about the presidential campaign is to place yourself squarely in opposition to whatever it is the Obama campaign is most likely to do.

For the past couple weeks you've been dropping your little Clinton suggestions, arguing that if Obama tapped Clinton he's a shoe-in and if he doesn't he's a goner--and all with the knowledge that no way in hell was he going to pick Clinton.  Pure sophistry, tep.  Make an extreme proposition--'the only way for Obama to win is to tap Clinton'--that you know ahead of time is untestable--because he would never tap Clinton--and then crow "I told you so" when he performs as predicted and doesn't tap Clinton.

There's very little evidence that Clinton, or any VP choice, would make much difference to Obama's, or any candidate's, electoral chances.  And there's a list of reasons as long as my arm--all documented ad nauseum on this site--as to why Clinton would be a terrible running mate for Obama.  So I can see how your little Clinton hobby horse serves your purposes in terms of casting yourself as the brave contrarian, but as political advice/analysis it flat out sucks.

I mean, seriously, you've been the biggest Biden fanboy on this site and now that Obama picks him, it's a mistake!  It's quite remarkable.  And this "necessary not sufficient" smokescreen isn't going to get you off the hook.  In essence the only way for Obama to satisfy you would be for him to TURN INTO Joe Biden.  Why don't you stop whingeing about the about the world as it might've been and deal with it constructively as it is?

August 23, 2008 7:09 AM

jobeek2 said:

Tep - "Now the PUMAs are in play." Are you serious? The PUMAs are a joke.

For entertainment value check out the pics of their big, long anticipated, secret national conference:

www.rumproast.com/.../the_truth_about_puma_conference_08_you_cant_spell_conference_without_c_o_n

August 23, 2008 9:23 AM

aeromonas said:

What are PUMAs?

August 23, 2008 9:37 AM

aeromonas said:

OK, answered my question.  "Party Unity My Ass."  

Whatever.

August 23, 2008 9:41 AM

michael said:

RE: tep

Who is in a more "desperate position"? Barack, McCain or Hillary.

McCain won't be able to shed his hand-in-glove fit with Bush-Cheney. There is a known 10%+ unsure and they strongly identify with the Democrats.  McCain must keep them at home (all of them?) or he loses. Who does John pick to match up with Biden?  Joe B. has the best combo of resume, common man and he's as the last person they can attack without a guarantee of a withering counter.

Hillary has to find a way to get her renegades back in the bottle for at least three years. An Obama loss means she's Typhoid Mary and wouldn't be able to buy an AA or under 35 year old vote. She might lay off the 'not vetted' as she and Bill still have plenty of paperwork which is locked up and they're relieved it is.

Obama-Biden have at least 60% of the country checking off their policies. Barack was and is black and young and that's about all McCain has exploited. The ticket just became whiter and older and McCain's best days (count 'em) of exploiting the black-young are over. Biden is the best insurance against the only ammo the GOP has. This is a ticket now and they can have it both ways. They can deflect charges against not ready and still run on change. McCain will temper his stay to fight in Iraq as the Bush-Rice policy to time it out will leave him dangling. I think the elite charge died with the hidden, missing, or unknown homes McCain does or doesn't occupy. Explain how the McCain budget for servants is greater than Obama's salary...Yikes! Out of tough with working people? John and Cindy are just like everyone else but they have to pay someone to wipe their ass.  

It may be clearer why Barack took so many punches from Johnny for a couple of months. "OK John, I heard you and I fixed the problem with my ticket. We're no longer too young and too black...shaddup already." A young, fast and healthy run and shoot style and Barack is still ahead? McCain had till now to define Barack and now Obama has fixed what Johnny found vulnerable. For the next two months McCain will have to account for what he will do and remember, 60% of the electorate lines up against his Bush-Cheney routine.

See? Hillary has to corral her folks or she'll be a confirmed spoiler. Johnny's team lost their only advantage, (it was white and seasoned). However trivial a VP is, it will be two teams competing. With over 10% of the unsure not going for McCain all he can do is keep them from voting. He won't be getting any help from the Clintons in that effort...

August 23, 2008 9:57 AM

icarusr said:

Jobeek: thanks for the link.  Awesome.  Among the PUMAs there were a few cougars too, not to mention a Lyndon Larouche fan.  

Millions of PUMAs tep, Millions of PUMAs.  Right.  Moving on ...

August 23, 2008 11:37 AM

icarusr said:

Jobeek: incidentally, the website for the PUMAs has been taken offline.  Yeah, an organization to bring down Obama.

August 23, 2008 11:40 AM

Political Animal said:

BIDENMANIA CONTINUES.... As part of our ongoing coverage of the big political story of the day, here are a few more Biden-related items of note: * At BeliefNet, Steve Waldman has an interesting item, taking a closer look at Joe...

August 23, 2008 11:46 AM

ironyroad said:

"Biden's mastery of foreign policy underscores Obama's lightness."

I think there's some considerable evidence out there that Obama isn't "light" on foreign policy.  He's young(-ish) and inexperienced, but that's not "light."  It seems to me that Biden brings a weight of detail and thought to foreign policy but the spirit is Obama's, and in many ways he allows the spirit behind Biden's handling of that field to get out and soar a bit.

Far from the negative relationship you project, tep, I think they will complement each other constructively.

August 24, 2008 2:12 AM

teplukhin2you said:

Go ahead, keep stepping in it, guys. Per the latest CNN poll, which now shows the race as tied, McCain has gained 3 points and Obama's lost 3 points since last month. Per the CNN pollster, "The number of Clinton Democrats who say they would vote for McCain has gone up 11 points since June, enough to account for most, although not all, of the support McCain has gained in that time." Holland said.

Let's try a little math. An 11 point increase in support for McCain from Clinton Democrats = 0.11 x ~18m = ~ 1.98m. Round it to 2 million. As in "millionS". Clear enough for you?

Here's the CNN article: www.cnn.com/.../index.html

Poll: Race for White House tied

By Paul Steinhauser

CNN Deputy Political Director

DENVER, Colorado (CNN) -- It's a dead heat in the race for the White House.

In a new CNN/Opinion Research Corp. poll released Sunday night, 47 percent of those questioned are backing Obama, the presumptive Democratic presidential nominees, with an equal amount supporting his Republican opponent, McCain.

"This looks like a step backward for Obama, who had a 51 to 44 percent advantage last month," said CNN Polling Director Keating Holland. "Even last week, just before his choice of Joe Biden as his running mate became known, most polls tended to show Obama with a single-digit advantage over McCain."

So what's the difference now? It may be supporters of Hillary Clinton, who still would prefer the New York senator and former first lady as the Democratic Party's presidential nominee.

Sixty-six percent of Clinton supporters -- registered Democrats who want Clinton as the nominee -- are now backing Obama.

* * * That's down from 75 percent in the end of June. Twenty-seven percent of them now say they'll support McCain, up from 16 percent in late June. * * *

August 25, 2008 1:57 AM

teplukhin2you said:

Poll: More than half of Clinton backers still not sold on Obama

By Susan Page, USA TODAY

DENVER — Fewer than half of Hillary Rodham Clinton's supporters in the presidential primaries say they definitely will vote for Barack Obama in November, a USA TODAY/Gallup Poll finds, evidence of a formidable challenge facing Democrats as their national convention opens here today.

In the survey, taken Thursday through Saturday, 47% of Clinton supporters say they are solidly behind Obama, and 23% say they support him but may change their minds before the election.

Thirty percent say they will vote for Republican John McCain, someone else or no one at all.

www.usatoday.com/.../2008-08-24-campaignpoll_N.htm

August 25, 2008 10:51 AM