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COLUMNISTS
TODAY'S STORIES
08.07.2008
Party Grrlzz

There's a scandal brewing in the feminist blogosphere over an interview between Lizz Winstead and Jezebel writers Tracie Egan and Moe Tkacik. Each week, "Daily Show" co-creator Winstead hosts a live interview (called "Thinking and Drinking") with big names in journalism in New York City; the interview is then posted on ShootTheMessengerNY.com, a hilarious site Winstead produces that sends up the mainstream media. And, despite the title, "Thinking and Drinking" can be a pretty high-minded and clever show, with guests including Craig Unger and Bill Moyers (Note to Lizz Winstead: You might want to think about renaming your show). Jezebel, a Gawker Media blog, puts a modern feminist twist on politics, culture, and entertainment in the kind of in-your-face traditions of Bust and Bitch magazines. On its face, it seemed to be a good match. Young, irreverent, feminist bloggers on a smart, funny media show in a year the country had its first viable female candidate for president. It was, however, a CATASTROPHE.

The Jezebel bloggers who showed up were not the arch women some of us have come to read regularly. Instead two drunk, eye-rolling, jeering women who thought they were funny showed up: Think Karen Walker of "Will and Grace" without the laughs. In what I will generously assume was a play for laughs (and a gross lapse in judgement), Egan and Tkacik discuss rape:

Tracie: People are always saying it's not safe to go home with strange men, blah, blah blah, like Mr. Goodbar whatever ...

Moe: The thing about the rapists of our generation, is that they all use drugs, they all have some sort of drug they use on you, so it's good to feel, and I don't know if this has happed to me or if I just drink too much ...

Tracie: I moved here when I was 18 and you think you would encounter more rapists in a big city like this, but, I don't know, I just haven't ...

Moe: I guess third guy, I ever had sex with, date raped me, and I got very mad at him, but I wasn't gonna fucking like turn him in to the police and fucking go through shit ...

Lizz interrupts: Why not, you see that's the problem, why not, I am just curious?

Moe: Because it was a load of trouble and I had better things to do, like drinking more.

The full transcript and clips from Winstead are here on HuffPo. Egan and Tkacik acquitted themselves so badly, it's at first difficult to understand how such otherwise bright and sharp writers could fall so hard. Though Moe's constant references to drinking go a looong way toward explaining it. And that's my huge, massive problem with this swaggering, I-can-do-anything, fuck-you attitude of the Jezebel feminist order. There seems to be this idea that an "Ab-Fab"/Karen-Walker attitude conveys power. That anything can be solved with a cocktail and sarcasm. I have a lot of personal experience with this kind of bravado, and I assure you it's a masquerade. Some of my most cringe-inducing memories are of how NOT funny I actually was during a drunken escapade. And as any good stand-up comic can tell you: If you're funny, you can be forgiven a multitude of sins; if you aren't, then you're just an asshole.

Sadly, Egan and Tkacik made Jezebel look super hackish: They didn't prepare for the interview, weren't familiar with the program's format or tone, and, worse, didn't even seem to think the topics they were asked about were serious enough for real thought. It was as though Egan and Tkacik were in a childish contest to see who could be more irreverent. Which in a way they were: Through the haze of hooch-fueled banter, I bet it seemed that way. And I know just how I might have reacted myself the next day once upon a time: I'd laugh about how drunk I was and what a disaster I was, as though that were the grand prize. Now that's a powerless, powerless woman. Drunkeness generally is a surefire way to lose power and control. Thinking that acting snarky and subversive to shock or get a laugh confers any power back to the woman is nothing more than a charade. And it's certainly a poor example of feminism.

This peek behind the curtain of Jezebel has kind of shocked me back into place. It has been all too easy for me to dismiss certain Jezebel posts and attitudes as ironic (like Egan's avatar "Slut Machine"), but now it all just seems like character acting instead of ideology. Which is too bad, because Jezebel's young-adult book reviews, snarky takes on the world of fashion, and links to tons of news stories about women made it pretty awesome. Now it just seems like a site run by messy drunks who think that snark is an end in and of itself. Time to wake up, sisters. As a Jezebel commenter, StaceyofLiberty, writes, "Eventually these women may learn that the public role of Outrageous Sexy Woman! is both tired and tiring, and it inevitably leads you to look like an utter ass besides." And Jezebel commenter esmemurphy, writes, "I've been getting the feeling that I'm too old for this site lately. I think this clinches it. I definitely think that things have been skewing more party mentality and less womens-issues over time." Me too, ladies. I'm done.

--Sacha Zimmerman

Posted: Tuesday, July 08, 2008 2:29 PM with 17 comment(s)

Comments

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drdannyu said:

Ah.  Drinking too much.  Faux bravado.  Trying to make truly embarrassing behavior seem like some kind of cavalier triumph.

I'm with you on this, Sacha.  On a variety of levels.

July 8, 2008 3:37 PM

teplukhin2you said:

sic semper bloggeris

July 8, 2008 4:00 PM

jhildner said:

What I'm hearing is that today's modern feminist tends to drink so much that they're not exaclty sure whether they've been raped or not and, in any event, are not inclined to fucking go through shit even if they kind of guess that they have been.  So, that data point is out there.

July 8, 2008 7:20 PM

newleader said:

Sacha Zimmerman seems to have had a few too many sips of Lizz Winstead's self-righteous KoolAid. Perhaps if Egan and Tkacik had done their "homework" about "Thinking and Drinking" they might have watched this interview with Roseanne Barr:

www.shootthemessengernyc.com/index.php

Winstead and Barr, both drunk and constantly swearing; Winstead mostly sycophantic. The difference is that Barr, though a has-been (Winstead is a never-been-much; she cocreated a Daily Show that sucked until Jon Stewart reinvented it) is a famous television star. The Jezebel bloggers are big on the web. More popular but younger than Winstead, who baited them into saying a few things that were politically incorrect—but ironically so. She took Tkacik to task for not reporting being date-raped at nineteen and not reporting it, as if she had betrayed all of womenkind. Blaming the victim? Winstead has since used the occasion to attempt to rehabilitate her flagging career as an unfunny pundit-scold by crucifying the drunk ironic sluts and casting them as rape denialists leading America's little girls down the lubricated path to STD land. This was a set-up. If Egan and Tkacik, who unlike anybody else on Jezebel can write beyond the level of summary, vanish from Jezebel, maybe we can look out for more "snarky takes on the world of fashion, and links to tons of news stories about women" Pretty awesome.

July 9, 2008 1:20 AM

tnr1.com said:

Let's assume it was a set-up and Winstead is the total saboteur, NEVERTHELESS, Egan and Tkacik were horrible. We can condemn Winstead too, but after a few minutes it was obvious Egan and Tkacik's "jokes" weren't landing and yet rather than take Winstead to task, they devolved into cartoon characters who said things like "I'm too smart to get raped." Why is it OK to blame that on being drunk? Ultimately, even if I hadn't seen this controversy, I was getting pretty tired of so many Jez posts starting with "I am soo hung  over..." It's tired. Egan and Tkacik are too talented to rely on schtick, or worse, to really be that out of control. And frankly, given the responses from other Jez readers and audience members, I am not alone. Let's not forget Egan's own description of the performance on her blog, in which she made excuses for herself and never decried being set up. I am not suggesting they lose their gigs at Jez; I'm suggesting that Jez isn't as woman friendly as it would seem, that ultimately some of us are over this "I'm so outrageous" BS. --Sacha

July 9, 2008 10:16 AM

aeromonas said:

"Drunkenness generally is a surefire way to lose power and control."

Not always.  Drunkenness can sometimes be quite empowering.  It all depends, of course, on the drunk herself, on the nature of the particular hang-ups and inhibitions that alcohol dissolves for her, whether they're adaptive or maladaptive.  It also depends on just how drunk the drunkard gets.  Falling down is never empowering.  

Neither is talking about drink.  That's where these chix screwed up.  The statement, "I had better things to do, like drinking more" is just lame.  I'm afraid my own generation-X batch of alcoholics is tedious in the extreme, always talking about how much they've downed.  My father once said to me, "I don't know whether or not you kids drink more than we did, but you sure TALK about drinking more than we did."  Too true.

July 9, 2008 10:29 AM

aeromonas said:

And did I tell you about the time that I, dressed for Halloween as a giant, blaze orange carrot started a brawl with a bunch of Duke lacrosse players?  Talk about cavalier triumphs...

July 9, 2008 10:35 AM

ritebrother said:

SZ:  "Egan and Tkacik are too talented to rely on schtick, or worse, to really be that out of control."

Talented?  Really?  At what-spreading diseases?

July 9, 2008 12:19 PM

bauerlein said:

<i>Talented?  Really?  At what-spreading diseases?</i>

Fuck you, Ritebrother. Fuck everything about you. How telling that you think from this post you have the right to talk about these two women like that. What a real man you are. If you see me on the street, save us both some trouble and call the cops.

Sincerely yours,

Spencer Ackerman

July 9, 2008 6:41 PM

psantillana said:

This shoots me right back to college and some years after. Women who drink Makers Mark - boo yah! I hate them. If they were really and truly punk rock then they would be that way stone cold sober. But no, they had to pour alcohol down their throats, which they thought was cool. The opposite. It's the opposite. It's fratboy with some intellectual pretensions thrown in. Girls gone wild! Oooh! Subversive! Not if you need to get drunk it's not. And not if you use "drunk" as a get-out-of-accountability-free card.

July 9, 2008 9:26 PM

ritebrother said:

Bauerlein/Spencer:

Check out Egan's website.  Real classy.

July 9, 2008 11:01 PM

ritebrother said:

SA: "Fuck you, Ritebrother. Fuck everything about you. How telling that you think from this post you have the right to talk about these two women like that. What a real man you are. If you see me on the street, save us both some trouble and call the cops."

How gallant.  Please.

July 10, 2008 9:52 AM

bauerlein said:

Ritebrother, you cocksucker: I know Tracie's website very well. She writes about sex. You know what? Amazingly, that doesn't give you the right to say that she and Moe are only good for spreading diseases. You clearly are a limp-dick who fears assertive women. I'd pity you, but it would be so much more gratifying to do you bodily harm.

Sincerely yours,

Spencer Ackerman

July 10, 2008 2:54 PM

ritebrother said:

Spencer,  I don't need anyone's permission to speak. My opinion is just as valid and arbitrary as yours. Your hyperbolic attacks and physical threats are amusing, though.  Been working out lately?

July 10, 2008 3:01 PM

bauerlein said:

Actually, Ritebrother, it isn't, because I don't go around slut-shaming. But it's hysterical that you think that all you were giving was your opinion when you say that women you don't know are only good for spreading diseases. I don't need a day in the gym to stomp the shit out of cowards like you.

Sincerely yours,

Spencer Ackerman

July 10, 2008 5:48 PM

bauerlein said:

Oh, and Sacha, you brave spokeswoman for feminism, your refusal to sit on this comment thread is tacit approval of what Ritebrother expressed. You may think Moe and Tracie are bad feminists, but they don't let misogynistic shit go unchallenged in their comment sections.

Sincerely yours,

Spencer Ackerman

July 10, 2008 5:49 PM

tnr1.com said:

ritebrother and Spencer: Knock it off. Future comments along these lines will be deleted. Keep it civil or take it somewhere else.

--the moderator

July 10, 2008 5:54 PM