So he's the guy you'd want to have a martini with. Sounds good to me!

So Obama's a country club elitist. But the "you" in the metaphor is at the country club, too, so "you" are also an elitist. Huh.

I'm not a country club member, but I assume yard is, so I'll ask: Are there guys like this at country clubs? Are their snide comments funny, at least? Do we not like them because they like a civilized cocktail and they're banging babes? Is it the smoking that makes them evil? Is Rove really just trying to remind people that Obama is sneaking cigarettes?

Honestly, I don't think Turd Blossom thought this one through.

This is ridiculous for yet another reason -- "you know this guy" is an appeal to the reader's shared familiarity with the situation described. Is Rove suggesting that all those real, genuine, salt-of-the-earth, working-class Americans he's presumably claiming to speak for would find Obama offputting because they've seen other guys like him at their country clubs?

Ah man, envy drips from every word.

Even if you've never met Turd Blossom, you know this guy.  He is the resentful kid out on his own in the school yard who goes home and sticks pins in Football Captain's voodoo doll; an ingratiating boor whose journal entries drip with venom that would burn a rattlesnake's skin, vowing one day to succeed and crush his enemies.  Oh yeah, those journals were burned, the ashes buried, when he joined Bush's team ...

Says the guy who sought out a snide-commenting idle-rich country-club drunk to run for president.

He must be talking about George W....or his father...or his grandfather....or his brother....or....

Rove's 24/7 presence in the media is too good to be true. He has lower approval ratings than the president. The only thing better would be an "I told you so" op-ed from Rumsfeld in the WSJ. Please, Don, share with us your wisdom now that we're "winning" in Iraq.

This from a guy who acts as if he never got in to a cold car.

i can't wait until nov. so this current crowd can slither back under their rocks.

I mean, that characterization is far more Bush than Obama. Obama, as you know, prefers a green tea to a beer. Not exactly a country club drunk.

"the guy at the country club with the beautiful date, holding a martini and a cigarette that stands against the wall and makes snide comments about everyone who passes by."

Hey, I thought that was Karl Rove!

I like the combination of "you know this guy" with "He's the guy at the country club...".  Because if there's one thing your average voter knows, it's the different types of people you meet at country clubs.  Way to keep in real, Karl.

I don't think there is a better description of George W. Bush than what Rove wrote.

But hey, at least he didn't compare Obama to the guy at the country club who shines the shoes of the guy who holds a martini and a cigarette that stands against the wall and makes snide comments about everyone who passes by. And he didn't compare him to Tiger Woods.

It's progress when the illogical metaphors ignore skin color, right?

obama's a secret muslim but a country club elitist! he's too ruthless to be president and too naive to be president! he wants to fight terrorism with laws, which is bad, or with bombs, which is bad.

soon they will literally be telling us that he's too white to be president.

And you kinda know Rove too.  He's that smug and somewhat obsessional guy who fields a lot of stuff for George, the current golf committee chair (and pretty much got him elected, truth be told), and who's pleasant enough but always leaves you with the feeling that you need to watch your back when he's around.

This is absurd; everyone knows Muslims aren't allowed to drink alcohol.

Beautiful date? Martini? Cigarette? Snide comments? Posh locale?

Is it just me, or is Rove saying that Obama is James Bond?

...and no, this isn't more Bush than Obama.  Bush gave up golfing for the troops, remember?

Well, Rove was describing himself, sans beautiful woman on his arm (presumably, assuming some basic justice in teh universe). The real question is whether Obama has ever gotten sushi from McDonald's.

And Bush is dry.  Except of course when he is eating pretzels.

Woody, the only time I've been near a country club in the last twenty years was when a buddy and I dragged an eight-foot telescope onto the middle of a Carmel Valley fairway at 1 a.m. to check out the rings of Saturn.

(Alcohol was involved!)

(Seemed like a good idea at the time!)

(We promised never to do it again!)

(Nice thirty-foot-long divot!)

Meanwhile, if Obama becomes President and surrenders to the Islamists, will country clubs be all sand except for a few "grass traps"? (That could end up being a win/win, considering the whole global warming thingee.)

Rove is a vicious, mean spirited, amoral and immoral lier, who'll say anything to spin things his way.  Why anyone would listen to a thing he says is beyond me.

Note the line here by Orr which is at once a casual defamation and a rather slavish towing of the Obama party line.

"...this presumably means Rove is giving up on the whole radical-Muslim-foreigner-outsider frame."

As Orr knows, Rove never said or implied anything or the sort.

If you ask Obama what time it is, he will reply, "I'm outraged.  How dare you mention that I'm black."

If you tell him it's a nice day outside, he'll reply, "I'm outraged.  I am not a Muslum; I love Jesus."

These are diversionary tactics meant to distract from the fact that Obama knows little, has done little, and yet is - as Rove says -  arrogant, which is not a winning combination.

It gets worse.  Donatella Versace has dedicated her latest line to the "man of the moment": www.huffingtonpost.com/.../barack-obama-inspires-mil_n_108600.html

Muslim James Bond, Babelicious-dating, Arugula-eating, Eye-talian-model-inspiring, Martini-swilling, cigar-smoking, speechifying, "Prof" ... what next? A "Barack" cologne by Dior?  An "Obama" design by Ikea?  "Barry O", the movie, by Polanski?  The man ain't good for America's image, I tell ya.

bcrago- you wrote "As Orr knows, Rove never said or implied anything or the sort.

If you ask Obama what time it is, he will reply, "I'm outraged.  How dare you mention that I'm black."

If you tell him it's a nice day outside, he'll reply, "I'm outraged.  I am not a Muslum; I love Jesus."

So...when has Barack said something, anything of the sort?  For real.  If you are going to call out Orr for implying that Rove said something he never did, you shouldn't just, you know, make shit up.  Unless you can provide anything close to an example.

". . . at once a casual defamation and a rather slavish towing of the Obama party line."

I know -- that's the Obamaphiles for you.  Always towing that Obama lline behind their Volvos as they drive to Starbuck's for a latte, getting in the way of real Americans in their Chevy Silverado pick-ups.

william, with all your morally interesting escapades you've shared with the TNR talkbackers, I find it humorous that your idea of a wild, drunken night involved ameteur astronomy.

And bcrago, It's obvious that by characterizing Orr's post as "slavish," you're bringing up slavery, and calling attention to Obama's race, which is out of bounds.  I, for one, am deeply offended.  (crickets)

actually, bcrago77, muslims love jesus, he's one of their prophets, and they'll kill you for hanging up images of him.  

bcrago77: The boy's uppity, ain't he.  

"the fact that Obama knows little" - and that's a fact? Evidently, you know more to be able to judge that he knows "little", right?  And that isn't arrogant?

As to whether Obama will respond, "I am not a Muslim", if you tell him it's a nice day outside - now, you see, that's just a silly exaggeration.  To be funny, or relevant, you have to exaggerate in a way that makes sense; or, if pushing it to absurd limits, it should be far enough removed not to appear stretched, but utterly disconnected.  Nice try, but try again.

Finally, every attempted (and especially failed) witticism says as much about the utterer as it does about the subject.  It's funny that in response to Orr, you suggest that Obama would comment about his race or religion, which of course he has not done (except in his race and religion speech, but that was a special occasion).  I suggest that it's you who are obsessed with both, and not Mr. Obama.  Or, for that matter, Orr, who was just commenting on an absurd statement by Rove.

So, wait... Obama is Addison DeWitt?

Oh God, the mob is at it again.  Quick, someone wake up LR or Sleepy to the defence of bcargo77.

Anonevent, I always pegged you for a secret Mooseleem.

Incidentally - and I am not trying to be pedantic here - but can you "slavishly TOW" a party line?

And isn't being a slave one of those absolute conditions - like being pregnant or unique"?  I mean, how can you be "rather slavish"?

I'm just saying.

drdanny: you kill me.

bcrago, thanks for stopping by.  Amazing insight you have.  I would comment on your phenomenal political acumen, but your post has completely fried my synapses with its stunning logical cohesiveness.  While I have never actually HEARD Obama say anything even remotely close to what you impute to him, I'm sure you've simply been paying closer attention than I have.  Thank you, you political maven, you.

Did someone mention mausoleums?

A fourth cousin (once removed) told the story...

Great minds, Chris.  Great minds.

"He's the guy at the country club with the beautiful date, holding a martini and a cigarette that stands against the wall and makes snide comments about everyone who passes by."

Actually, it's "holding a cigarette and sipping a lemon drop." Besides, any fool knows that a cigarette doesn't "stand against the wall." Go ahead, Karl, play the tobacco card, see what it gets your guy.

icarusr, I don't think the muslims would have me.  I like to read a lot, so I'm all about facts, and little action, unless it comes to my kids.  "Cake or death" is probably about as fanatic as I get, though I have donated to the Obama campaign.

And cigarettes don't make "snide" comments; they tend to have more of a smokey, scalding wit.

Black people can be elitist snobs too.

In response to may many critics :-)

Obama is a smart politician, and I don't mean that in a damning-with-faint-praise manner.  Most aren't.

He used race as a weapon in a recent Florida appearance:

From the AP:

Obama says Republicans will use race to stoke fear

www.reuters.com/.../idUSN2040982720080620

"We know what kind of campaign they're [Republicans] going to run. They're going to try to make you afraid."

"“They’re going to try to make you afraid of me. He’s young and inexperienced and he’s got a funny name. And did I mention he’s black?"

So Obama is here playing the race card in "defense" against no comment - no even alleged comment - of anyone.   Against an imaginary future comment.

Note the advantages:

1) A casual listener might think Obama must be responding to something, or why would Obama protest?  What did those racist Republicans say?, some might wonder.

2) In a country of 300 million people and about 1 million political junkies, someone will make a racist comment, which will then be tied to McCain via the insidious "Republican noise machine," and the question will be put to Republicans "Why did you not denounce?," theories will be advanced that the racist is doing the dirty work of McCain, etc.

3) Most important: Obama is tying legitimate criticism of his lack of knowledge and experience to the issue of race.  ("He’s young and inexperienced...And did I mention he’s black?")  You have to concede that a white guy as green as Obama would face this kind of criticism.  But now, noting the fact the Obama a Harvard weenie who knows little and has done little will be treated as "code" for stating that he is black.

I scanned some of the comments, and I've already seen comments that those who criticize Obama's green-ness are really saying that Obama is an uppity Negro (or words to that effect.)

That's all.

Talk amongst yourselves.

Topic?  Modern art is neither modern nor art...

Rumors again are going viral about a video of Obama grinning and reaching over a counter to shake hands with a shy young male supporter, captioned "OBahm_a..  ACTING gAY!! HAHAHA..."

sorry

bcrago77: yawn. what a bore you are. This is meant to be a fun thread poking fun at the stay puft Marshmallow man Rove's ridiculous comment. You are obviously too humorless to get in on the fun.

Hey yard, if you know what a divot is, that means you are an elitist.

Is it possible, even conceivable, that you've confused me with that gang of backward children you play tricks on, that you have the same contempt for me as you have for them?

Eve Harrington: I'm sure you mean something by that, Addison, but I don't know what?

Look closely, Eve. It's time you did. I am Addison DeWitt. I am nobody's fool, least of all yours.

You know, all modesty aside, I am a better looking version of George Sanders, except shorter and fatter, and without the limey accent..

You're point 3, bcrago77, is exactly what your getting wrong.  You say Obama is playing the race card, and yet you use someone else's quote and attribute it to Obama.  The point of that quote was that McCain, and plenty of McCain supporters, will be injecting Obama's race in places it doesn't belong, just to remind people of how "different" he is.  It's entirely fair to critique Obama's short time in politics, and if they did it without statements like "he's not black enough," "he's too black," "he's not black," or "I will be an American President, but you have to wonder about the other candidate," then there would be nothing wrong.

Actually, "a white guy as green as Obama" did run for President.  John Edwards was his name.  And so far as I remember, there was nowhere the same level of intense questioning of his credentials and his experience as with Obama this cycle.  This is assuming that length of service in the Senate or as a Governor is the sole, or even a relevant, qualification for President.

And yes, I did mention the "uppity boy" because, frankly, I don't think you would be talking about "a Harvard weenie who knows little and has done little", especially the "who knows little" bit, let's say about Edwards.  Your constantly asserting that, and then withdrawing behind the "race card" does not change the fact that you are making an assertion that is based on nothing whatever.  Frankly, after your "Harvard weenie", I'm just waiting for the "affirmative action" shoe to drop - it has been said in these pages by the very people who complain about Obama's use of the "race card".

"We know what kind of campaign they're [Republicans] going to run. They're going to try to make you afraid."

You find this statement objectionable?  Why, because Republicans never campaign on fear?

“They’re going to try to make you afraid of me. He’s young and inexperienced and he’s got a funny name. And did I mention he’s black?"

And he left out the "Muslim" bit, and the Marxism bit, and the "Enforsed by Hamas" bit.  Actually, it was Governor Rendell of Pennsylvania who said that many in rural Pennsylvania will not vote for a Black man as President.  And Lee Atwater specifically chose the picture of Willie Horton to appeal to racist sentiments.  Have you forgotten the Harold Ford ads?

The point is, to pretend that race will not be an issue to be exploited by the Republicans in this campaign is to be blind to reality.  It is evident by now - it should be - that "green and inexperienced" isn't going to damage Obama; his "unAmerican roots" is going to be an overt theme, and his race, likely a covert one.  To confront that is not to play the "race card", but to challenge what we know is going to be an ugly campaign in the Fall.

Finally, your constant reference to "his lack of knowledge" is fascinating - and a new line of attack.  You do realise, don't you, that in the person of Shrub, the United States has one of the most ignorant and decidedly the least curious head of government in the democratic world?  That John "I am aware of the Internet" McCain is hardly a paragon of "knowledge"?  That Laurence Tribe - no wilting flower, he - has praised Obama's ability to master a subject matter as arcane as quantum mechanics on a paper they co-wrote on constitutional theory - a paper I read and enjoyed enormously when I was in first year law?  So, aside from assertions, how do you measure and judge Obama's knowledge?

I wish I was an elitest snob.

Who's Addison DeWitt?

Iggy, watch the movie "All about Eve"

bcrago77:  "I scanned some of the comments, and I've already seen comments that those who criticize Obama's green-ness are really saying that Obama is an uppity Negro (or words to that effect.)"

I hardly know where to look.  I never thought our political culture could descend to such depths.  Race has never been an issue in American politics, and we certainly don't want to bring it up now.  I'm so sorry, bcrago, that you had to be exposed to that.  It wasn't right, and I apologize.  At least we should have warned you in advance.

On the other hand, it just might be worth pointing out that there are other many, many other kinds of commentary available, here on TNR itself and on other boards and indeed in other media, and upon inspection you will find that some of those comments, here and elsewhere, assert that challenging Obama on his lack of experience (if indeed he suffers from that) is not at all racist but a legitimate tactic.

So perhaps the prospect isn't as bleak as you first thought?

All about eve. I'll have a butchers so Blackton, as long as it's not black and white. Sounds recent, I don't know what you kids watch these days.

icarusr, that is a hell of a post. Nice work!

blackton,

Speaking of celebrity lookalikes - I'm constantly mistaken for a heavier, not as handsome, not looking as good in a suit, less charming George Clooney. I think it's because I don't shave regularly and I like to make poop jokes.

Iggy,

Addison DeWitt was Joyce DeWitt's little-known uncle. He encouraged her to enter show business, a few years later "Three's Company" debuted, and the rest is history.

Addison DeWitt always wanted to be a famous athlete. Unlike Kristi Yamaguchi, Mia Hamm, and Troy Aikman, however (not to mention non-athletes like Lord Byron and David Lynch), he was never able to overcome his club foot.

James Bond or Truman Capote.

But - oh my sweet lard Obama should reject and denounce Donatella Versace for implying that he would ever wear that double breasted sweater with the cream top and boysenberry bottom. That is the ugliest thing I've seen since I don't know when.

Woody, does that make you Paul Krugman?

blackton, my brother who studies Chinese and Oaxacan dialects ALSO LOOKS LIKE GEORGE SANDERS.

A few final comments, on the %10 chance that there's a couple insomniacs like me still looking at this thread:

1) Edwards was criticized as a pretty-boy know-nothing with little experience, but not too intensely, because few thought he ever had a chance to win the nomination, so who cares?

2) Criticizing a candidate as having little knowledge / experience is pretty common among Republicans, e.g.,

a) Bush Sr. against Clinton ("My dog Millie knows more about foriegn policy than this Bozo."),

b) Dole against Clinton ("It is demeaning to the nation that within the Clinton administration a corps of the elite who never grew up, never did anything real, never sacrificed, never suffered and never learned, should have the power to fund with your earnings their dubious and self-serving schemes.") [OK, that's against Clinton's advisers, but it's the same idea.]

We make this criticism because we actually believe that knowledge and experience matter.

3) Knowledge in the sense we're talking about isn't the same thing as academic skills.  And it's not the same as raw IQ either; no doubt; Obama's is at least 135.  It's practical knowledge derived from broad  life-experience and responsibilities, and the making consequential decisions.  Wilson was a PhD, and a very bad President.

4) When the facts don't fit your narrative, you'll discard or twist the facts and keep your narrative.  That means I'll keep insisting that Obama doesn't know much and never did much, and you'll keep insisting that that attack is really code for Uppity Negro.

Now...good DAY, Sirs!

OK, so you're saying that it is not the case that Republican attacks are racist, but that in "Criticizing a candidate as having little knowledge / experience", Republicans are unthinking Robots that recycle their criticisms at each cycle regardless of context.  After all, Dole's statement against Clinton or his advisers was made when Clinton had been in power for four years already, so the "experience" attack was just a stupid attack and had no basis in fact in 1996.  

Not just unthinking and stupid, but objectively falsiable: for all Clinton's lack of knowledge and inexperience, he proved more adept at it than Shrub.  Or Bush Sr. for that matter. (Saddam was still President of Iraq; 100,000 dead Shiites in the wake of the disastrous "rise up" exhortation, US recognition of Croatia that led to the Yoguslav wars - should I keep going?)

But I and Rhubarbs put very specific questions to you that you refuse to answer through generalities.  I asked about Obama's "knowledge" - you conveniently meld it into "knowledge and experience" and explain that it is a standard attack.  And you dismiss the lightness of the attacks on Edwards as a result of the lightness of his candidacy.  If by "knows little" all you meant was to robotically repeat the stupid and pointless Republican attack memes of the past forty years, then I agree that there is no racist basis for the statement.  

I think, however, this is rationalisation ex post.  I don't recall a single Republican refer to Shrub as a harvard "weenie" with "little knoweldge", even though he is ignorant and, well, a weenie.  The attacks on Obama are of a different order.  But, then, I hope I will be proven wrong.

bcrago writes (ignoring the specific responses that have been directed to him/her):  "When the facts don't fit your narrative, you'll discard or twist the facts and keep your narrative.  That means I'll keep insisting that Obama doesn't know much and never did much, and you'll keep insisting that that attack is really code for Uppity Negro."

Who is "you" in this statement?  Most Obama supporters on this site don't make massive claims for Obama's record, but rather point out that (a) he has done more than he's been given credit for, and (b) many other presidents have come into office with equally sketchy CVs.  And then they go on to ask -- which is a legitimate response -- why, in the light of (a) and (b), is Obama's record seen as being particularly problematic?

Care to address that?

So, it turns out that Karl Rove's attempt to frame Barack Obama as a Lord of the Country Club yesterday