Also, not that I'm endorsing it, going to a prostitute is also better than having an affair. Especially if it's not the same prostitute over and over, to the point where it = affair. I'm not saying it's fine and dandy, just a whole lot better. Continuums are so boring though, aren't they? Too obvious.

Well, of course Playboy is exempt.  As we know, everyone reads Playboy for the articles.

Fox News has a Sex Expert?  

Nice Simpsons reference

Not to take this to the nth degree, but....

What if my wife and I like watching porn together then have sex?  Is that the equivalent of being in an orgy?  Are we actually swingers and never knew it?

How adorably quaint. And I thought social conservatives had stopped caring about everything outside abortion and gay marriage!

Following Douthat's reasoning to its logical conclusion, if I have an erotic dream about having sex with another woman, it's morally equivalent to having an affair with a real person. As is merely contemplating having sex with another woman, or like Carter put it, "lusting in my heart."

I think there is fertile ground for expanding this reasoning into other realms. Watching a movie of someone using illegal drugs is morally equivalent to using drugs myself. If I watch a murder committed in a movie, then I've committed murder too. I have no doubt that Fulbright and Douthat would also believe that having dark inner thoughts about the health of Dick Cheney's heart would be rightfully considered as tantamount to plotting his assassination, and would justify a long and unpleasant stay in Gitmo.

Well, they are equivilant in the Romans 3:23 "For all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God" kind of way.

But isn't this similar to the Argument of the Beard?  (Maybe a logician can help me out.)  I mean, someone who makes $20,000.00 per year is, for all practical purposes, making the same amount as someone who makes $20,000.01 per year.  But that doesn't mean that that person is, for all practical purposes, making the same amount as someone who makes $450,000.00 per year just because you can get to the second by "meaningless" increments of one cent.

One time I watched porn.  It convinced me to become a cable repairman.  It wasn't anything like I expected.   How moral is that?  

It is fox news, who the hell cares what those nudniks think? I have a further question though, isn't talking about having an affair, or talking about looking a pornography also an equivalent. I mean you do have to think about if first before you can talk about it. So Fulbright is actually a filthy minded whore for talking about it. A virtuous person would not be an expert on sex, and would only perform the act in the dark, at night, and soley to make babies.

And I don't believe you that you have never viewed hard core porn. C'mon, never? Not even in college? Did you run screaming out of a dorm room when someone had Debbie does Dallas on?

If porn is tantamount to sex, I'm getting a lot more action that I realize.

arsenal, can I watch? I mean, since you are outing yourself as a swinger. One condition though, you not being in the room

The problem I have with this is that much of the terminology is ill-defined. What is prostitution? What is pornography? Different people give different answers. "Money for sex" is the usual answer but is itself vague. When you buy condoms or dildos, you are paying money for sex. Furthermore, if prostitution is illegal, why is there extensive advertising for escort agencies in the Yellow Pages and on the Internet, whereas you never see any ads for Joe's Floating Crap Game?

donhamm- People don't watch drug movies to get high; but they watch porn to get off, often hoping the lithe, nubile young cum-dumpster of their dreams is doing them.  I think that is fine- to expect someone never to have even stray thoughts is absurd and unhealthy.  But the two aren't really comparable.  

So, all this post really says is that in addition to foreign and domestic policy, Fox News is a totally unreliable source of information about sex.

I'd be willing to bet a truckload of cigarettes that Ross Douthat looks at hard core online smut. If the Atlantic's IT guy is reading this, please, check Douthat's online history and post below.

Also, sounds like nbarry is into prostitutes. You go boy!

Did you see the photo of Fox's "Sexpert"? As is the case with most of Fox's hotties, she titillates at least as much as she illuminates. (In fact, the ratio of titillation to illumination doesn't change significantly even if you mute the sound on the TV.) Now, I'm sure that Ms. Sexpert's titillatory qualities did not factor into Fox's decision to put her on the air - their dedication to journailistic excellence would not allow it. Even so, isn't there a risk that someone highmindedly looking for edification about matters of human sexuality might get distracted by the cleavage and give rein to lustful thoughts and possibly lustful actions? Can Fox really afford to take this risk? That could ultimately break up more marriages than allowing gay folks to wed.

So, where does mental masturbation fall into the continuum, and are we all pervs?

2 year subscription to TNR, a couple of bucks.

Reading the responses from the commentariat on a blog about moral equivalency and prostitution, priceless!

So, where does mental masturbation fall into the continuum, and are we all pervs?

2 year subscription to TNR, a couple of bucks.

Reading the responses from the commentariat on a blog about moral equivalency and prostitution, priceless!

This is exactly as convincing an argument as one that says that if we let gays marry, we are, in essence, permitting me to marry 16 cats.

Fox News Sex Expert?

"So, all this post really says is that in addition to foreign and domestic policy, Fox News is a totally unreliable source of information about sex."

DrDanny, I disagree.  In Ye Olde Countrie, there is a story.  

Students of Loqman, the Great Sage of Islamic antiquity (yeah, it was not always Osama, all the time), asked him, "where did you learn your Manners and Morals, oh Great Master?"

"Why, from bandits in full pillage and rapine!" He replied.

His students sat perplexed, until one fellow asked, "How so, Master?"

To which he answered: "I saw what they did, and do the opposite."

I saw Fox News on sex and morality ...

And Gspinks, yes. We are all pervs.

Yes, geoffgraham, indeed. I think I just committed adultery by looking at that picture of Yvonne K. Fulbright.

I will probably commit more adultery later on today, when I take the dogs for a walk around the lake. It's a sunny day and there are bound to be women in bathing suits, halter tops, shorts and other revealing clothing out there. And I will look at them as I pass by. I always do. I apparently am a serial adulterer.

You guys are funny.  It's like reading IM exchanges among boys trying to see what they can get away with.  Take Foucault's position- be fluid and open with your partner.  My sense is that what's objectionable is what is not known, agreed to or shared.  Porn with a partner is awesome!  Mutual masterbation HOT!!!!  .......ahhhh at least that's what I've heard.  ;)

People, check out Swingtown, the new CBS show.  Can we please go back to those days?

Epicciuto, homo-feline polygamy is exactly what's in store if we continue to accommodate Islam.

Well, icarus, I suppose that's one way toward enlightenment.  I fear, however, that before reaching whatever critical mass of Fox News is required to acheive Great Sagacity, my head and/or stomach would explode.

And epic, I refuse to pay for wedding presents for your marriage to 16 cats.  Five or six, fine.  But I can't afford all those lead crystal food dishes.

TammyA: I'd heard of the Lotus Position, but not Foucault's Position.  Is that the one involving screaming out complex and incomprehensible arguments in French while you're having sex on a Persian carpet in an English prison?

I've heard that Foucault's position is popular among proto-leftist high school and college debators.

Adaglas, to think what happened once we couldn't have a creche on the county courthouse steps. It was all downhill from there.

Tammy, I think it is not simply a matter of what's agreed to, etc. I may agree with my husband that neither of us may never allow a sexual thought ever to enter our heads, but that's probably not very realistic. On the other side, we may both agree ahead of time that we each can sleep with whomever we want, and no one will feel betrayed, and that's probably not very realistic either. Contra certain French philosophers, we are not the authors of ourselves that we'd like to be, and we do come pre-programmed with certain desires, both to sleep with other people and to have our partner sleep only with us.

And that's why I think it is not merely a matter of failing to be liberated from a dominant ideology that Mr. Epicciuto would be sent packing were he to propose a new open and fluid relationship that involved sleeping around.

Porn, however, seems to be an entirely different thing.

But drdan, we've registered at Stinkyfishandcream.com!

dont knock prisons... some kinky stuff in there.  sex is best when playful, not serious or obligated.  

What about meditating on some wild moments from one's misspent youth -- does that count as porn too?  Or is that just folklore?

"Take Foucault's position- be fluid and open with your partner."

If she provides the open, I'll provide the fluid.

(Seeing what we can get away with?  Nope, not me.)

It's the French I'd object to, not the prison.  Oooops- been watching too many Oz episodes ...

Q: Why do conservatives like to have sex standing up?

A: Because then they can keep an eye on Fox News.

I'm not into prostitutes, I'm into legalities, especially those which waste our tax money.

epic, there is no such website!!!

"meditating"...is that what we're calling it now?

adaglas and icar, you're in top and raunchy form today. we deserve to play with this sexual discourse after months of poltiical boredom.  Plus, McCain will make it even more boring. So, how about a new HBO pilot?  Californication, Oz, and L Word all wrapped up into one?

Tim Oliphant as the Sheriff; and I'd like to see Annette Benning in there somewhere.  Maybe as a Madam?

Really, Blackie? But Fluffy told me she had the registry taken care of! That's what you get, I guess, for letting the cats plan the wedding on their own. You'd think I'd have learned my lesson after the catnip and wheatgrass floral arrangements that Snowball insisted on.

I don't know, I always feel guilty after watching porn. I mean, you do feel sorry for the poor girls in it. You're essentially supporting the slave trade as well and the sexual objectification of women and my girl friend wouldn't understand why I would ever watch it, "am I not enough" type thing. Not that I watch it mind you, just saying, if I ever did watch it, which I clearly don't.

You guys disappoint me, I was hoping for >600 posts on this topic, and btw, where's Williamyard's comments?  Maybe it should have been posted on the open posting pages.  Knowing those wingnuts, CanWest overlords could make in-poor-taste Iowa flood jokes and get away with it after the servers were down for four days, claiming "hey, we were victims of a flood too".

Oh, and one more thing, no "Jon, have you ever had sex with the lights on" comments from me;  No.Way.

Yes, yard's absence is pretty conspicuous. I think he may have read this post and his head exploded.

I'm always amused by the (mostly older) journalists and opinion writers who try to get away with the "I'm not a prude but I've always found pornography to be so unsexy and boring with it's lack of mystery and true eroticism, blah, blah, blah... Not that I've ever seen it!" schtick.  Please, you're not fooling anyone.

Just for the record, watching someone really have sex (on video) is different than watching someone pretend to murder.  If there were videos of people really murdering people, I would object.

This thread has been linked to a real genuine has-naked-people-in-it pornography blog.A moral there is here somewhere.

jet et al.

I did write a long-winded, passionate, Wagnerian comment, hit submit, and it disappeared. Unless I somehow deleted it. I haven't cleaned my keyboard since the invention of the virgule, so everything sticks and weird shit goes down.

Anyway, I waited and waited for my brilliance to manifest, to no avail. And now I just can't get it up again, so to speak.

I got nothin.  Great thread, though.

Lay off Ms. Fulbright.  She's hot.