I just want to say that I think all Missourians are hillbillies.

She was joking, right?  I mean, if anyone else had written that paragraph, I would automatically assume they were being ironic.  But Lopez ....

Not all of them, Josh.  Those simpleton Okies need to be handled very carefully.

I'm from Texas, so I'm used to regional stereotypes.  I can't tell you how many times I've had this conversation:

Other person I've known for a month: "Where are you from?"

Me: "Texas."

Him: "Really?"

Me: "Yup!"

Him: "Where were you born, though?"

Me: "Texas."

Him: "You lived there all your life?"

Me (proudly): "All my life!"

Him: "Really?  You don't act like a Texan."

Me: "Um...how many Texans do you know?"

Him: "Including you?   ...one."

Me: ...

Him: "And George W Bush."

Me: "He was born in New Haven."

Problem is that while these kind of jokes can be acceptable within their own circles and person to person, we've become so stringently PC at every level above that, nothing is acceptable any more.  For certain, no minister can ridicule anyone, no elected official can, no corporate manager at any level, and that's it.

Hey, that's Hilllary country Cheney is talking about.

bigfish...that reminds me of two personal anecdotes (well the first is a joke) I have involving Texans. Of course this comes from a Colorado native who didn't see fit to live outside his beautiful state for 30 years.

The first is a long running joke Coloradans has about Texans trying to ski.

If God wanted Texans to ski, he would have made bullshit white.

The second was when I was renewing my fishing license back in Colorado. The guy behind the counter at the sporting goods store had nice silver and enameled Texas state belt buckle on. He asked me for my address and ID and where I was born. When I replied I was a Colorado native. He said "well that's OK, I chose to live here."

Ah well...I still have to correct East Coasters when they incorrectly assume that Colorado is mid-west. After I explain the geographical distinction, I begin persuading them simultaneously to visit but nver move there. The last thing you want are Brooklyn hipsters screwing up your home state by relocating and then complain there aren't enough bodegas and bars with indoor bocce courts.

Hey! W's in no way representative of us New Haveners either!

I'm more into jokes about people who can't hit the side of a barn meself...  

c'mon... whom is kidding who?

Here are the rules.   (Freshly minted; I just made them up.)  

One can joke about one's superiors, or the majority, or the ruling class, or the rich, more acceptably than one can joke about the disadvantaged, or the disabled, or the historically oppressed.

Fellow members of any group can joke about themselves more acceptably than outsiders can.

Comedians can joke about any topic more acceptably then non-comedians, except when comedians endorse or work for politicians, in which case they are subject to the politician rule . . . .

Which is:  Politicians cannot joke about anything, except themselves.

In making fun of West Virginians, millionaire vice-president Dick Cheney broke several of the above rules.  His bad.

Dan

There is a sort of rule that the joke by the powerful is a nastier deal than the joke by the powerless, which even if it's nasty is a kind of resistance.  But that gets fuzzy, because people who used to be powerless but have gained some power hang onto their "powerless" card in order to justify their joke, e.g. the woman with a high professional status in her career who still makes or laughs at old feminist jokes/anecdotes which turn on how men won't give women a break.

I do not know about anyone else, but I am from Eastern Europe and take great pleasure in making jokes at the expense of anyone from the Bible belt/Southern hickvilles/lands below the Mason-Dixon line - whether my immigrant status entitles me to such liberties or not.

Dbuck: There is one exception to your list. It is open season on poor, down-and-out hillbillies if they are percieved to be racist by the Walter Lippmanns of blogland.

I thought Cheney joke was funny. Which was a nice change, because usually when I see Cheney speak I end up like Shatner screaming "Kahn!!!" So I guess I'm the asshole.

But people get entirely too uptight about things like this. West Virginians should be upset only if they actually married their sister. And if they did, well, they have bigger issues to deal with.

singlespeed, careful.  Texans fought for part of your state's independence from Mexico, you know.

With Colorado, I actually correctly guessed a couple years ago that a guy I had just met at college (in Minnesota) was not only from Colorado, but from Colorado Springs.  Fit, white, short hair, sideburns, polo/kakhis, hemp necklace, and he smoked Mary Jane.  People from Colorado Springs are who I imagine pothead Mormons to look like.

Oh, and he's a cool dude too.  Still friends.

In Minnesota we had Iowa jokes.  I grew up thinking that everyone had Iowa jokes.  But it turns out that only Minnesotans get how funny Iowa is:

Whats the difference between an Iowan girl and the garbage?  The garbage gets taken out once a week.  Etc.

I guess thats the exception to Minnesota Nice.

What liberal reformer said.  The fact is that anti-hillbilly stereotypes have done *real historical harm,* just as anti-black stereotypes have.  Last I looked, anti-New York stereotypes haven't; in fact, they usually stem from resentment of the powerful and the cluelessly snobbish, which is an entirely different matter from calling somebody you don't know inbred.  Last I noticed, the money still keeps flowing into Gotham--not into Central Appalachia.  The fact that people like jcolic think they've somehow earned the right to their bigotry doesn't make it any less bigoted.  And the fact that it's now fashionable at TNR to ridicule poor people is a pretty sorry commentary on what this "liberal" journal has become.

Liberal Reformer,

You lost me.  I know who Walter Lippman is, and you still lost me.  

Dan

The Republican Party - Celebrating double standards since 1968!

Dan,

He's making a "those damn elitists" comment. Remember all those hateful people in West Virginia who said, themselves, out of their own mouths, that they wouldn't vote for Obama because he's black, and they think he's a Muslim even though he says no, and his middle name is "Hussein"? LR thinks it's elitist to call those people racists.

Actually, I think anti New York stereotypes have caused quite a lot of harm, in the sense that a lot of people in New York and other east-coast states who have been right about a lot of things over the past seven years have been reflexively dismissed as out of touch, east-coast "elites." This little catchphrase has allowed Republicans to marginalize people on both coasts, as well as all academics who say anything critical of the administration.

I've lived in New York for 9 years now, and despite the stereotypes I've found it to be far, far friendlier than the little town in southern Illinois where I grew up. And not to sound elitist or anything, but I've found that regular exposure to people from different countries and cultures does in fact make you better informed.

"I've found that regular exposure to people from different countries and cultures does in fact make you better informed."

Exactly -- it's not the business of Real Americans to be better informed, dsimpson; we leave that stuff to the bicoastal elites.  Why?  Because thinking just gets in the way when you're hardworking and white and, you know, real.

Yes. regional stereotypes are loads of fun. I go to school in Scotland and always get a laugh when I explain that my kinsfolk, from Wisconsin and the midwest generally, are a humble people, salt of the earth type of folk. The laugh comes from my totally belying the stereotype, such that hearing me discuss the charms of the cheesehead is a site as incongruous as Sean Hannity in a library.

It only goes to show that stereotypes are inherently misleading. People, with all their quirks, can not be spoken of categorically; we're a more variegated bunch than ALL THE MCMANSIONS IN THE WHOLE, ENTIRE WORLD! That's diversity, if ever it existed. Even so, we're all fairly alike; if not socialized the same way by our many diverse cultures, we all possess certain common desires and urges: to be fed, loved, housed--to feel secure and comfortable in our surroundings. Stereotype make life easier. Analysis is impossible if one has to qualify infinitely, acknowledging all the people in Georgia who don't go to the onion eating contest in Vidalia, who aren't racist, who don't listen either exclusively to rap or country. Surely these stereotypes are not a reasonable description of Georgians. Being reasonable is no fun, however, and nonsense can be hilarious.

Andrew Davis,

We do Iowa jokes in Wisconsion too. I'm told that everywhere else they do Wisconsin jokes, which is entirely unfair in light of Iowa's existence.

Ah, New York City...when it rains, it makes its own gravy!

[rimshot!]

[loud, sustained applause!]

Oh thank you, thankyouverymuch! Yer too kind!

Try the veal!

WoodyBombay,

Thanks for the translation.  It all went right by me.  

The jokes not to mention behavior or opinions of people down the class, historically oppressed pole viz a viz others down the class, historically oppressed pole is a different issue.  Black anti-semiticism; Appalachian racism, not acceptable.  Can we call that the regardless of race, creed, or color rule?

In that vein, Lopez valiantly tried to package Cheney as a Wyoming hillbilly and thus a suitable oracle for West Virginan incest jokes.  Wyomingites ought to be as pained as West Virginians about that comparison.  But give Lopez a C+ for effort.  She didn't have a lot to work with.

Dan

bigfish....I ain't taking exception to the fact that Texans having fought off the Mexicans. But that Texans aren't born to ski joke stemmed from all the sunbelt boys and girls that coming up for winter skiing and post-holing down the mountain. This was the mid-80s when they were awash in oil money and buying up our beloved state like some two-bit vacation spot. Of course we did the same to Wyoming. Go figure.

As for Colorado Springs. Ironically for a town that is politically opposite of Boulder, they still are rather laid back despite it being the head quarters for Focus on the Family and NORAD.

Of course my favorite activity is watching out-of-state visitors practice ignorance when they go for hikes and such in the backcountry or even on site-seeing walks in the desert southwest. I guess they figure that No Services sign is a mirage.

Oh, yer the best audience! Thanks so much!

But seriously...a guy I know once told a joke about Dick Cheney's family. You wanna hear it?

[hooting! cheering!]

Okay, here goes...what do women in Dick Cheney's family put behind their ears to attract men?

[pause]

Their ankles!

[wild, sustained applause!]

I just got a postcard from the guy...Now he's playing Gitmo--held over!

[deafening applause! cheering!]

Oh thanks, yer the best...please, tip your waitress...she's having my baby!

[foot-stomping! rhythmic applause!...]

singlespeed, I will concede that you're right about Texans in that way.  I, for one, have tried snowboarding and skiiing, and can't figure it out to save my life.  My friends have been witness to many spectacular spills.  I am awful at any winter sport.

...and don't you ever f'get who fended off Santa Anna from controlling that small corner of Old Texas called "Colorado."

Iowa: Idiots Out Walking Around.  

Where the men are men, the woman are hairy and the sheep are scared.  Did you hear that the Hawkeyes might switch Kinnick Stadium to artificial turf?  It is true.  They want to stop the cheerleaders from grazing at halftime.  

Minnesota (East Dakota):  You know you're from Minnesota when you think everyone else in the United States has an accent and you have more miles on your snowmobile than on your car.

Illinois:  How do you keep bears out of your backyard?  Put up goal posts.

Did you hear about the time that Mayor Daley, the Pope and Mother Theresa were trapped on a desert island?  They had to vote on who should get off.  Daley won 3 -2.

Yes, I was raised in Wisconsin.  If you are from one of the surrounding states and you are offended, feel free to place Wisconsin before each colon.  It works just as well.    (except for Chicago politics jokes).

All the joke reflects is Cheney's long residence in the DC area. There, EVERYONE makes West Virginia jokes.  In the region, it's the one thing everyone agrees on, that every West Virginian is married to a close relative.  I lived in the DC area for 13 years.  Trust me, up there that joke is like saying good morning.

I am so happy there are people out there making Iowa jokes. Iowans look down on my state [MO] and call us hicks despite the fact that we have St. Louis, which produced Chuck Berry and Ike and Tina Turner and Miles Davis and blah blah blah. Yes, people tend to leave as soon as they can [Tennessee Williams] but we do churn them out.

Iowa = the Switzerland of the US, minus the natural beauty.

Andrew Davis:

In South Dakota we also had Iowa jokes. One really awful example: Why do they keep a cow pie in the corner of Iowa churches? To keep the flies off of the bride.

Wisconsin: Idiots Out Walking Around.

By God, you're right. I does work!

As another Missourian, I'll note that Iowa stands for Idiots On their Way to Arkansas. Why they'd be on their way there in the first place, rather than stopping in beautiful MO, reinforces the point.

The relatives jokes are made just as often about the Ozarks as about WV. Just depends who you're talking to.

AdamVaught:

After I ended my post, I said to myself, "I bet some snooty Chicagoan is going to mention the ancronymn."

Let me guess:  Wrigleyville or Lincoln Park?

Sirhc,

Springfield, actually.

I've nothing got against Wisconsinites (or whatever you cheeseheads call yourselves), but I couldn't resist a joke. But, don't get me started on Indiana. Freaking hoosiers...

Colablease - do me a favor. Reread my post and enlighten me as to which part of it is it exactly that makes you think I consider myself entitled to make jokes about Southerners (especially since I clearly state that I like them regardless of whether it would typically be considered kosher for a non-American to indulge in such humor).

My god, all I mean here is that I agree with Josh when he asserts that regional stereotypes are loads of fun. If that makes me - as well as him and plenty of TNR posters on this thread - bigoted, I am okay with that. At least I am in good company.

Hey, Hollywood put out a twho hour joke about Appalachia called "Deliverance".  Based on the novel by a man steeped in the South, James Dickey.

I don't recall any protests about that movie from W. VA or environs.  That had to have done more damage than Cheney's joke.  

Cheney must be amused that some many people still care so passionately about what he says.