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COLUMNISTS
TODAY'S STORIES
06.05.2008
"Yes We Can" vs. "No We Can't"

Media analysis of Barack Obama's speech tonight will probably focus on what it means for the fight over the Democratic nomination.

But maybe because the nomination no longer seems in doubt--like a lot of people, I think it's effectively over--I was more struck by what the speech said about Obama's prospects in the fall. And I think it boded pretty well for him.

For the last few weeks, it's been all too easy to imagine how Obama might falter against John McCain in the general election. Polls consistently showed Obama faring worse against McCain than Hillary Clinton would and, in many cases, losing to McCain outright.

True, these sorts of hypothetical matchups, conducted this far out from the actual election, are notoriously unreliable. But combined with Obama's demonstrated difficulty with white, working class voters--a key swing group--those numbers suggested real danger.

And, just to be clear, the danger is still real. At least based on the early exit poll results I've seen, it looks like Obama won based on his familiar coalition of African-Americans plus college-educated and younger whites. It will be hard (though not impossible) to win if he doesn't make at least some progress with the white working class.

But tonight Obama offered a preview of how he'd try to do that--and how, at the same time, he'd confront McCain.

As he has been doing consistently for the last few weeks, Obama in his speech focused heavily on the economic struggles facing working- and middle-class Americans, blending in stories with broad calls for action:

The woman I met in Indiana who just lost her job, and her pension, and her insurance when the plant where she worked at her entire life closed down--she can’t afford four more years of tax breaks for corporations like the one that shipped her job overseas. ... She needs middle-class tax relief that will help her pay the skyrocketing price of groceries, and gas, and college tuition. 
 
The college student I met in Iowa who works the night shift after a full day of class and still can’t pay the medical bills for a sister who’s ill--she can’t afford four more years of a health care plan that only takes care of the healthy and the wealthy; that allows insurance companies to discriminate and deny coverage to those Americans who need it most. She needs us to stand up to those insurance companies and pass a plan that lowers every family’s premiums and gives every uninsured American the same kind of coverage that Members of Congress give themselves. 

But the more critical section came immediately afterwards, where Obama sketched out his vision for America:

We also believe that we have a larger responsibility to one another as Americans--that America is a place--that America is the place--where you can make it if you try. That no matter how much money you start with or where you come from or who your parents are, opportunity is yours if you’re willing to reach for it and work for it. It’s the idea that while there are few guarantees in life, you should be able to count on a job that pays the bills; health care for when you need it; a pension for when you retire; an education for your children that will allow them to fulfill their God-given potential. That’s the America we believe in. That’s the America I know. 

This vision is a reiteration of Obama's old slogan, "yes we can," but here Obama presents it in a slightly different context than he did, say, back in Iowa. That statement above is not about the possibility of changing politics for the better, which dominated so much of Obama's early rhetoric; it's about the possibility of changing people's lives for the better, which has been the theme of his campaign for the last six weeks or so. 

Of course, those arguments didn't carry the day in Pennsylvania, in good part because Clinton always had an effective response. She could argue that she would do more to help the white working class--because her ideas were better, her mastery of politics and policy were superior, or her will to fight was simply stronger. She was, in effect, matching him ambition for ambition. He believed America could live up to its ideals, but so did she. And it often worked.

But this fight may not play out the same way with McCain, for one simple reason: If Obama's slogan is "yes we can," McCain's is "no we can't."

Obama wants to invest heavily in better schools and public infrastructure? McCain says it will cost too much money. Obama wants to make sure every American has health insurance? McCain says it's socialized medicine. Obama wants to make free trade more humane? McCain's says no, no, no--that's messing with the free market.

Even Obama's calls to change political discourse for the better--the most familiar and, at times, most empty part of his pitch--play into this dynamic. When Obama says he wants to end the politics of division, McCain dismisses it as just a slogan.

Whether you think Obama is right or wrong about these ideas--and, yes, I mostly think he's right--he's setting up the fall as a debate between ambition and timidty, between hope and cynicism, between optimism and pessimism. 

The last two presidential elections that framed the choice this starkly were in 1992, when Bill Clinton beat George H.W. Bush, and in 1980, when Ronald Reagan beat Jimmy Carter. For all of their ideological divisions, the two shared a fundamentally positive vision: Clinton believed in a "place called hope"; Reagan believed it was "morning in America." 

Those phrases sound a lot more like Obama's rhetoric than McCain's. And while it's just one factor in the general election, it helps explain why, for the first time in a while, I too am becoming more optimistic--about Democratic prospects for November.

--Jonathan Cohn

 

 

Posted: Tuesday, May 06, 2008 10:58 PM with 33 comment(s)

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roidubouloi said:

Cohn,

Do you read the same polls as the rest of us?  The polls have not shown Hillary doing better than Obama against McCain.  Just the revers.  For weeks on end, they have consistently shown Obama doing better than Hillary until just the last few days after the Second Coming of Wright, and he had already started to rebound even before today's races.

Do you even look at the data before you write this stuff or do you just make it up to give yourself a story line?

May 6, 2008 11:19 PM

roidubouloi said:

Cohn,

You also seem to be as baffled as the rest of the TNR editors by the fact that the primary in a state is not predictive of the outcome in the general election -- different opponent, different electorate.  Hence, you make much too much of the fact that Hillary has won particular white demographics against Obama.

If you want to sound intelligent, you have to reconcile what you are saying with the fact that, whatever demographics have been stronger for Hilllary, Obama's coalition beats hers and, according to national polls, beats McCain's too.  And you have to reconcile what you are saying with results such as those obtained by Rasmussen that show Obama flipping 5 states for 39 votes his way in the Electoral College and Hillary flipping none her way.

Get a grip or find some subject other than elections to write about.

May 6, 2008 11:23 PM

sullydog said:

From your lips to God's ears, Jonathon. Get some sleep.

May 6, 2008 11:29 PM

Jonathan Cohn said:

roidubouloi- Please follow the links in the article.  They are to Pollster.com's rolling average, which currently has Clinton beating McCain by 3.2, Obama beating McCain by 0.7.  And Obama's lead just widened today; he's been nearly dead even or behind for a while now.  RealClearPolitics had roughly the same numbers.

sullydog- Thanks. I'm tired!

May 6, 2008 11:41 PM

ackyri said:

roidubouloi,

Which polls have YOU been reading? I'm an electoral-vote.com devotee, which tracks the electoral vote (what really matters) based on composites of nonpartisan polls. For some time now, Hillary bests McCain in the Electoral College and Obama mainly deadlocks with him, and it tilts one way or another somewhat arbitrarily. It matches up with everything Jonathan wrote.

May 6, 2008 11:47 PM

scire said:

but it's only been in the last few weeks that she does better. There have been so many changes in this democratic race in terms of story, momentum, etc. between two candidates WHO HOLD ESSENTIALLY THE SAME POSITIONS , why does anybody think the dynamics wouldn't change again in Obama's favor once the media microscope is on MCain and there ARE stark contrasts? Really, when people have time to focus on what the real issues are, don't you think Obama's poll numbers will rise against McCain? The media always acts like everything is static, even as it constantly changes the narrative from day to day. Plus, once Obama can get a coupla night's sleep, he might be re-energized, especially as this is the fight he is heart has been in. He really hasn't had much heart for a fight with Hillary. I think he does have the heart for one with McCain.

May 7, 2008 12:08 AM

roidubouloi said:

Sorry, gentlemen, both Cohn and Ackryi, but you are simply wrong.

The RealClearPolitics have shown Obama consistently beating McCain since April 11, 2007, with only a few short periods in which McCain has looked better -- a week or so in Dec, a couple of weeks in Jan, and a couple of weeks in March.  If you click the Obama v McCain tab, there is a very nice blue/red graph that shows this quite clearly.  Not only that, a few days before Wright II, ALL of the major polls had turned blue at the same time, rather than being mixed with the mean in favor of Obama, a state of affairs that had not prevailed in quite a while.

Until Wright II, Hillary's numbers against McCain had been lagging Obama's by 2-3% for a very long time, and she had been shown losing to McCain almost all the time since last December while Obama was shown winning, something much commented upon in these blogs.  It is only relatively recently, 4/23, around the time of PA, that Hillary pulled ahead of McCain again.  Again, pull up the Hillary v McCain tab on 'RealClearPolitics and you will see a very nice blue/red graph that shows you are wrong.

It is only since Wright II that Hillary has been shown outperforming Obama v McCain by 2-3% and he was rebounding even before today's results.  In a short time, he will be ahead of her again as the impact of NC sinks in.

RealClearPolitics gives you an easy tool with which to check these claims, but you have to use it.

As far as the Electoral College, ackyri, you need to devote yourself to some other source than electoral-vote.com because its methodology is seriously flawed.  First, state by state polls are sparse compared to national polls so you end up averaging things from different time periods.  Second, all of the polls have consistent biases that you can see if you watch them for a while.  But there is no way to weed these out if you simply average state by state results.  They only way to do this analysis correctly is to take each pollsters state by state results and see how many states flip based on whether the candidate is Hilllary or Obama and which way the Electoral College total comes out.  That tends to net out the individual pollsters biases.  THEN you can average the Electoral College totals of the different pollsters and have something reasonably meaningful.  You can also look at the dispersion of the Electoral College results.  If they are dispersed around zero, then the best prediction for the moment is a draw.  If one side is favored, the preponderance of the polls should fall on one side or the other.

Unfortunately, it seems most of the pollsters don't make available the data that would allow this to be done intelligently.  Rasmussen does.  I looked at that yesterday.  They have the Dems well ahead and shoe that Obama flips 39 Electoral College votes his way (5 states) v Hillary and makes NC (15 votes) a draw.  Hillary flips none her way.

May 7, 2008 12:18 AM

ralphnelle said:

Great post. Prescient.

May 7, 2008 12:33 AM

bhunziker said:

I've been beating this horse for a while now, but what makes me optimistic isn't Obama's message vs. McCain's. And it has little to do with current polling or what constituencies Obama is doing well with in primaries and which ones he's not making inroad into.  Below is a brief list of things that make me optimistic about November (if still somewhat pessimistic about the state of things).

1) The economy, stupid.

2) Rising unemployment

3) Gas prices

4) Foreclosures

5) Party Identification and Republicans' demoralization.

6) The energy in the Democratic electorate

7) Right Track/Wrong Track Numbers

8) Bush's Approval Rating

9) Are you better off now than four years ago? numbers.

10) The still unpopular Iraq war (more now say it was a mistake than ever)

11) The desire for "change"

12) A cranky old Republican nominee who can't poll above 45 points in the worst week of Obama's campaign.

How a Democrat loses under these circumstances is really hard to imagine.  So long as Obama runs a good campaign (which he has proven he can do, and something Gore and Kerry did not), it's really hard to see how he loses in November. I expect he will receive a healthy bounce once Clinton concedes (and that will almost certainly happen before June 10) and will never poll under 50 again.

May 7, 2008 2:03 AM

GSpinks said:

Interesting parallel with Reagan, especially since Obama has some fairly flattering things to say about the guy.

Roi: your mastery of the poll is amazing,

scire: Obama has stated repeatedly that he was using kid gloves with Hillary because of the eventual need to reconcile things once someone is declared the nominee; he also sort of insinuated that it was frustrating. He also promised to kick it up when/if it is him and McCain...I guess we'll see soon enough.

May 7, 2008 2:16 AM

naomi88 said:

Obama almost won Indiana because of his improvement among WHITE WOMEN..  A cohort that he had lost by 36 points in PA and Ohio, Obama did much better among white females yesterday, only losing them by 20.

Any theories as to why Hillary's numbers are suddenly down among women??  

May 7, 2008 3:39 AM

liberal reformer said:

Eloquent post, Mr. Cohn. You make me feel better about Obama than Obama does. I don't care for his quasi - messianic rhetoric; last night in his speech he again said that he is going to bring the change that all those others didn't deliver in past years.

Did any notice the contradiction: roidubouloi takes Mr. Cohn down for not being cognizant that there are two different electorates in the primary and in the general elections and simultaneously puts up a long post on how (at this distant juncture in the primary seson) Obama consistently outpoints McCain in the polls (and that runs contrary to a lot of the polls I have looked at)?

May 7, 2008 4:59 AM

Wandreycer1 said:

Perhaps I am a bit obtuse here, but the fact that Democrats have signed up twice as many voters and are rolling in dough (versus McCain who is going broke again with no big backers willing to pony up) will have a huge impact on November.  

The polls now seem irrelevant.

May 7, 2008 6:29 AM

roidubouloi said:

That's not MY contradiction, liberal.  Cohn made one statement that is flatly wrong.  Contra Cohn, the poll averages have had Obama ahead of McCain at almost all times since April 11, 2007.  Cohn then goes on to talk about the coalition that Obama has or has not built RUNNING AGAINST HILLARY IN THE DEMOCRATIC PRIMARIES displaying the same weird tick that a number of TNR (and most Hillaristas have) of confusing results in primaries with reliable predictors of the general election.  

That's probably why Cohn miscited the Obama/McCain polls.  First he uses the primaries to draw inappropriate inferences about the general.  Then he uses his unsound inferences about the general to produce a conforming misstatement about the general election polls without bothering to look them up.  Since he mentioned to botch his post on two counts, both required correction.

May 7, 2008 7:38 AM

roidubouloi said:

liberal,

Fascinating that you have important polls to look at that are not available to RealClearPolitics.  Do yourself a favor.  Go there, hit the Obama v McCain tab and LOOK at the very nice graph.  If you draw the cursor across the graph, it will give you dates and spreads.  You will see that the major poll averages have had Obama ahead of McCain at almost all times since April 11, 2007.

Try and get the facts right at least.  It makes the discussion more useful.

May 7, 2008 7:40 AM

roidubouloi said:

Polls are never irrelevant, wandrey.  The show the current sentiment, demographics that represent opportunities or vulnerabilities, and their movement shows whether your message is penetrating the market.  They are an extremely useful tool. But you have to know how to use them properly.

May 7, 2008 7:42 AM

aeromonas said:

Can we all agree to talk about something else, now?  Regardless of our takes on the polls, it's safe to say that most of us here feel pretty good about Obama's prospects and good enough about the man himself.  Let's let writers like Cohn get back to what they're best at: nutting out the details of the issues that face our nation.  The way the Obama/Clinton contest has played out, it's turned this blog into the sports book at Caesar's only without the cocktail waitresses. It's boring.

Besides, I want tep to come back.  C'mon teplhukin, we miss you!  It's the puppies not the yuppies!  

May 7, 2008 7:58 AM

aeromonas said:

Um, roid, if you reread Cohn's post, you can see that his assertion about the McCain/Obama matchup poll was 1) true and 2) not at odds with your position.

"For the LAST FEW WEEKS, it's been all too easy to imagine how Obama might falter against John McCain in the general election. Polls consistently showed Obama faring worse against McCain than Hillary Clinton would and, in many cases, losing to McCain outright."

The pollster.com graph to which he links gives the same info that your RCP graph provides and on eyeball examination appears to employ a somewhat more sophisticated curve-fitting algorithm.

Now you're well within your rights to argue that Obama's slippage over "the last few weeks" should not be a matter of concern, but I do think you overstep the mark to state that Mr. Cohn is factually wrong on this point and what's more, to imply that he is intellectually incapable of understanding poll data.

May 7, 2008 8:13 AM

Wandreycer1 said:

Well Roi - you're an animal with those things, so I wouldn't dream of taking you on in that dept :)

I look to you to interpret polls for me anyway, you're ten times better than any other site.  I would have been lost since Feb without your take on them.

May 7, 2008 9:33 AM

desertdog said:

The GE is a much different animal than the primaries/caucuses.  What matters in the GE is winning the states you are likely to win, not the margin of victory.  The problem BO has had all along is winning primaries in states that he has no chance of winning in November.

The GE is winner-take-all, so all those closet Republicans and Independents who usually vote Republican will a) go back to their true calling and vote McSame;or b) won't exist in large enough numbers in the red and purple states.  Either way, they won't help BO in the GE.

I really hope I'm wrong, but this graphic tells an ominous story:  www.electoral-vote.com/evp2008/Clinton/Maps/May06.html.

It's all about piling up Electoral Votes.  Just ask Al Gore.

May 7, 2008 11:12 AM

teplukhin2you said:

Now is the time for all good men and women to come to the aid of the party.

May 7, 2008 11:50 AM

teplukhin2you said:

Le Roi would help us best, methinks,  if he were to apply his statistical analysis to the crucial demographics that will make or break us in the general: working class whites in PA OH MI MO and hispanics in CO NM NV.

May 7, 2008 11:52 AM

www.buzzflash.net said:

Obama in his speech Tuesday night after the North Carolina win focused heavily on the economic struggles facing working- and middle-class Americans, with broad calls for action. If Obama's slogan is "yes we can," McCain's is "no we can

May 7, 2008 1:08 PM

bigfish said:

"The problem BO has had all along is winning primaries in states that he has no chance of winning in November."

desertdog, so naturally you say that HC has a weekness in that she's won the Texas primary and Indiana?

Look, somebody had to win the red states.  It's not a liability to win any state.

Besides, he has picked up a few states that could switch blue in the fall, MN, VA, and MO to name a couple.  Electoral maps for the primary are miles away than from the general.  Hillary wouldn't win Texas, and Obama won't lose New York and California.

May 7, 2008 1:39 PM

williamyard said:

What sullydog said, to Jonathan, about sleep.

The entire TNR staff has been doing a great job, IMHO, and deserves a bit of a break. Hell, the campaign was in full swing and y'all launched an entirely new blog (the green one).

So, chill a bit in the post-North Carolina catharsis. You'll be busy again soon enough.

Kick off your shoes and get some air on those tootsies. Take a long lunch. Better yet, burn a sick day; you've earned it.

If CanWest calls I'll tell them you're interviewing somebody's chief of staff or something.

May 7, 2008 5:06 PM

mmathog said:

McCain will get 0 Mexican votes.

McCain will get some working class white Democratic votes.

Bill Clinton got 92% of the black vote, what pct. do you suppose Obama will get?

Do you suppose Obama will inspire a greater number of black voters?

McCain had one little ol' ad against him about the '100 years in Iraq' remark and they all screamed and yelled like babies. Those guys are not even vaguely prepared for what's coming (and how could they be? they've faced no competition).

McCain's been playing Double A ball, welcome to the majors pal.

May 7, 2008 5:15 PM

desertdog said:

bigfish

What I'm saying is that I suspect many of those red-state crossovers in the open Demo primaries and caucuses were actually anti-Hillary rather than pro-Obama.  What I'm afraid will happen is that they will naturally go back to their roots with the Republican Party instead of for BO.  That's the problem with open primaries that allow anyone to vote.  My own red state had a huge turnout in favor of Obama (65%) in an open primary.  There is no chance whatsoever he'll win my state in the GE.  Interesting, though, the R party doesn't allow us Ds to meddle in their primary!  Among other burning issues, I hope the state Democratic Parties re-examine their policies of allowing open primaries after this election.  Maybe I'm just paranoid from living in a red state too long, but I smell a rat.

I agree with you that Hillary wouldn't win TX, but neither will Barack.  I hope that he can still win in PA, OH and FL, (purple states) even though the vote went strongly for Clinton.  He has to get two out of these three and hope to flip a couple of large pink states.  It would be great if he could flip a state like NC or IN, but history just isn't in his favor.

May 7, 2008 5:45 PM

ChanRobt said:

We now know that Obama's campaign theme is stop McCain from presiding over George Bush's third term.

McCain's answer should be, stop Obama from stepping into Jimmy Carter's second term.

May 7, 2008 6:36 PM

mmathog said:

"McCain's answer should be, stop Obama from stepping into Jimmy Carter's second term."

And half the country will be like ... 'who'?

May 7, 2008 7:07 PM

roidubouloi said:

tep,

I'd love to help out, but I have no data to work from.  I only have the same grosses that anyone can read on the web.  Everything I have had to say on analysis up until now has been back of the envelope -- which is why I have been so astonished that it wasn't regarded as obvious.  It didn't take much to figure out.

May 7, 2008 7:31 PM

roidubouloi said:

I do agree that Obama is going to need to tilt his message to the right -- the classic move to the center -- for the general election.

May 7, 2008 7:32 PM

mcorey.geo said:

i would bet money that Cohn is under 35. "Morning is America" was Reagan's **1984** slogan, for reelection.

May 7, 2008 11:59 PM

liberal reformer said:

Roidubouloi: You exhibited the same sort of tunnel vision that people so often do when confronted with a cogent argument: you hunker down and reiterate what you said and ignore the critique of your contentions. Forget what Cohn said, it has nothing to do with my observation. Go back and reread my post. Forget for a moment whether it is you or me who is correct on the poll numbers. That is a side issue to what I am talking about here. I spotted an internal contradiction in your reasoning and it went right by you.

May 8, 2008 12:07 AM