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COLUMNISTS
TODAY'S STORIES
28.04.2008
"You Get a Very Bad Grade in History"

Whenever Bill Clinton opens his mouth, he’s accused of saying something dishonest, self-serving, or at best politically unwise. Contrary to the conventional wisdom, I think this has less to do with any difficulty that Clinton has had in accommodating himself to the You Tube era--which is not, after all, such a quantum leap away from the 24/7 news environment in which he successfully conducted his presidency--than with a desire on the part of the Washington media panjandrums to exact some revenge.

For example, in The New Yorker today there is a dig at the former president that repeats Barack Obama’s false claim that jobs “fell through the Clinton Administration and the Bush Administration.” Oddly, the piece--by Ryan Lizza, late of this magazine, and by all accounts a fair and careful reporter--fails to state explicitly, as a factual matter, that Obama was simply wrong about this claim. (See Paul Krugman.) Lizza leaves it to Bill Clinton to do say merely, “Now, if you believe that, you should probably vote for [Obama], but you get a very bad grade in history.” But since the piece generally paints Clinton as concerned only with burnishing his own record, it leaves readers who don’t know better unaware that unemployment really did fall under Clinton, across the board.

The article then moves on to refer to "the mysterious theory that Obama had played the race card against" Bill Clinton. Yet no one who has followed the campaign closely can believe there’s anything “mysterious” about this "theory." Do we need to be reminded of the Obama campaign's well-known memo seeking to construe innocent remarks by Bill and Hillary and their supporters as racist? Indeed, Sean Wilentz documented the effort to unfairly tarnish the Clintons at length in TNR many weeks ago. Now, I realize Wilentz’s case was not convincing to everyone--though even if one strips away Wilentz’s overall argument, one has to contend with the several pieces of hard evidence that he adduced to show how Obama’s team injected allegations of racism into the campaign. So while this “theory” may be unconvincing to some--especially to those predisposed to think highly of Obama--it's certainly not "mysterious."

Meanwhile, The New York Times reviews a new book by Carol Felsenthal, whose biographies were once described by Arthur M. Schlesinger Jr. in TNR as “pathography” (the term is Joyce Carol Oates’s). The target: Bill Clinton in his post-presidency. To her credit, reviewer Janet Maslin thinks little of the book. But she allows Felsenthal to get away with the claim that "all the wondrous works in the years ahead may enhance his reputation as an ex-president but not as a president"--another historically false claim, insofar as it suggests that Clintons’ impeachment (by a Republican-controlled House) and subsequent acquittal (by a Republican-controlled Senate) will come to reflect worse on him than on his Republican and media persecutors. In fact, the opposite has already proven to be the case.

Even more astonishing, Felsenthal approvingly quotes Don Hewitt of “60 Minutes"--why Hewitt has any authority on this matter is not explained--saying that if not for Clinton’s dalliance with Monica Lewinsky, "there’s not one kid who has died in Iraq who wouldn’t be alive today." Not only is the claim based on so many flawed assumptions of causality as to be absurd as a matter of logic; it is also simply vile to blame Bill Clinton's marital infidelity for the deaths of 4000 Americans in a war launched by George W. Bush. Does Monica Lewinsky therefore have their blood on her hands as well?

Someone will have to write a long piece on the resurgent antipathy of late toward Bill Clinton, who after all left the White House with the highest approval ratings of any departing president in Gallup polling history. The new hostility goes beyond the lingering sore feelings among media types about having been bested during the impeachment struggle, or among leftists for his New Democratic heresies. Unintentionally, Hewitt's comment may provide some of the answer, insofar as it suggest that some of this anger is a displacement of hostility toward Bush. But whatever its sources, the newfound Clinton-hatred is most assuredly not a product of the former president's purported negative campaigning against Obama. Quite the contrary, the idea that he has campaigned with particular negativity against Obama is itself the product, in part, of the Clinton-hatred coursing anew through the Washington establishment.

--David Greenberg

Posted: Monday, April 28, 2008 5:50 PM with 37 comment(s)

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blackton said:

gibberish. The idea that he has campaigned??? Yes, we made him bring up South Carolina and Jesse Jackson. It is the media's fault that he said it, or that he continually brings it up.

Whatever happened to the term "elder Statesman?" You know, where a former President doesn't inject himself into politics at every turn, all the while making highly paid speeches to third world dictators for filthy lucre.

Papa Bush has been a model of decorum and restraint since leaving office. Yet you say nothing about him I notice.

April 28, 2008 6:06 PM

adamvaught said:

You can disagree with Hewitt's theory, but the logic is not absurd.

(1) If Bill Clinton doesn't have an affair with Monica Lewinsky, Al Gore is elected President. (2) If Al Gore is elected President, the Iraq war is not waged. (3) If the Iraq war is not waged, 4,000 Americas are not killed in Iraq. Therefore, if Bill Clinton doesn't have an affair with Monica Lewinsky, 4,000 Americans are not killed in Iraq.

Sure it's crude and cruel to say this. And I don't think it's fair. But it's not absurd.

And Monica Lewinsky wasn't the President of the United States who had the affair, lied about it, and took the country to the brink of a constitutional crisis (rightly so or not). So no, she doesn't have blood on her hands.

April 28, 2008 6:11 PM

miceelf said:

Wilenz didn't "document" anything. he just went on a tirade about the fact that poor, put-upon Bill Clinton is now reviled by the Black community for simply pointing comparing Jesse Jackson to Obama, ignoring other SC primariy winners who were white and in response to a question about why Obama won SC. How dare people think Clinton was injecting race into the campaign. And then, of course, David Axelrod held a gun to poor Bill's head and made him lie about the Jackson thing, and then lie about the lie about the Jackson thing.

Poor Bill Cliton. My heart bleeds.

April 28, 2008 6:22 PM

ndmackenzie said:

David Greenberg describes Ryan Lizza as "by all accounts a fair and careful reporter." Spencer Ackerman put the lie to this assertion when he closed up his TooHotForTnr blog with the following:

-- What I learned from this is something every journalist, every editor, every potential source and every reader should know: Ryan Lizza is not to be trusted. He will betray you, and betray you casually. Whatever helps Lizza get what he want, Lizza will do. It doesn't matter if you and he have a warm relationship. He only -- only -- cares about himself. So congratulations, Ryan! You got what you wanted. You're the New Yorker's Washington correspondent. I hope it's worth it to you to have that job, since the path that you took to get it was to become a sniveling, obsequious, deceitful coward. Or maybe that's what you've always been, and always will be.

toohotfortnr.blogspot.com/.../you-snitchin-where-i-come-from-you.html

April 28, 2008 6:43 PM

blackton said:

Even more astonishing Greenberg quotes Felsenthal approvingly quoting Don Hewitt of “60 Minutes"- and on and on.

This was just a silly hit piece against some writers who have annoyed Greenberg. Definitely needs some serious pruning. Starts off with youtube, then Ryan Lizza, meanders to Sean Wilentz then over to Felsenthal, with a quick pointless detour to Joyce Carol Oates and Arthur Schlesinger and then to Don Hewitt. When the reader needs a flow chart to keep track of all the characters and their motivations then it could be said less is better.

April 28, 2008 6:46 PM

sabatia said:

As I keep saying: I was a Hillary supporter and donor starting in Jan. of 07 and a supporter of Bill from the time I first saw him on TV before he first started running for Pres. Then in late January they started making what an awful lot of us find to be race-baiting comments. Mr. Greenberg can make any argument he wants, as can Mr. Wilentz. But my eyes and ears, and the critical facilities and the senses of many others who loved the Clintons and loved the idea of a woman president tell us how low the Clintons will go.

The voters in PA saw the truth pretty clearly: in the exit polls more than twice as many thought Hillary was more negative than Obama.

Over the weekend WSJ and NYT had stories about major donors, including a Hillraiser, defecting to Obama. None have taken the reverse route. Almost all cite the negative if not destructive tone of the Clinton campaign.

I guess its a case where all of us who supported the Clintons but now support Obama are wrong, wrong, wrong. Hillary is a lovely person and so is Bill and everything they do is always fair and for the good of the party and the nation. (At least as long as they WIN.) But: I don't think so.

April 28, 2008 7:00 PM

williamyard said:

A few cases of minor media carping do not make Greenberg's case.

His first paragraph implies that when Clinton says something supposedly "dishonest, self-serving, or...politically unwise" it's not because of Clinton's media ineptitude but because of vengeful Beltway/media types. Here's a third possibility: it's because Clinton said something dishonest, self-serving, or politically unwise.

Some folks may have it in for Clinton, but that doesn't mean that he hasn't been an oozing boil on democracy's backside of late. Regarding how wonderful his Presidency was, that occurred in a different millennium, if memory serves. All that wonderfulness plus about four bucks will get him a gallon of regular out here in California.

No one in Hillary's camp has addressed the very real concern a lot of folks, including me, have of his theoretical presence in a Hillary-led White House. We bitch about Putin yanking assorted marionette strings, but we're expected to give once and future Bubba a pass? Don't think so. He wants to be in the White House again, except this time he will be accountable to no one but his own ego. If I am expected to vote for (and thus authorize and empower) a team instead of an individual, then let the entire team's name be on the ballot.

It's no accident that his wife considers her time in the White House "experience." Collectively this is just more arrogance from Team Clinton.

I say this as someone who was a Clinton precinct captain and who admires much of what he did. But I also loathe much of what he did, don't delude myself into thinking that he was responsible for the country's economic well-being any more than I think his Vice President was responsible for the Internet, and fervently hope that voters will soon finish the job of reminding him of the spirit, if not the letter, of the Twenty-Second Amendment to the U.S. Constitution.

April 28, 2008 7:07 PM

kcjohnson9 said:

Obama's comment was in response to a question about small (presumably industrial or post-industrial--since the questioner was asking about why Obama was weak in certain areas of the state) towns in PA. The linked piece by Krugman (hardly a neutral observer, in any case) refers to the growth of median real HH income in the 1990s Midwest.

Obama's claim about small-town job loss in PA might or might not have been true--but the linked Krugman analysis certainly doesn't establish that Obama made a "false claim."

April 28, 2008 7:17 PM

cthulhu2008 said:

Because he has violated in every conceivable way the notion that an Ex-President should stay out of politics.

April 28, 2008 7:27 PM

dpinkert said:

In the August 12, 2004, NYRB, Gary Wills has a long piece explaining the "resurgent antipathy of late" against Mr. Clinton.

Oops, my bad!  That was back in 2004!  I suppose Mr. Wills is just another "leftist" as far as Mr. Greenberg is concerned.  Or is he one of those "media types" upset about having been bested during the impeachment struggle?

April 28, 2008 9:25 PM

The Plank said:

I just have a quick point about David Greenberg's post below, which takes a swipe at Ryan Lizza's

April 28, 2008 9:39 PM

Wandreycer1 said:

Whoa-ho brother William, when you lay it out there, you don't mess around.  I haven't heard it said better.

And this too hot for TNR post?  I have yet to ever read anything so childish on the web or anything that makes journalists of all stripes suspect.  I pray that someone major took this guy out in an alley on Capitol Hill and kicked his ass.

April 28, 2008 9:40 PM

mpatrickhendri said:

Sorry buddy, Clinton was a politician and intellect of immense proportions and he ended up being a mediocre president. His first two years, the ones run by friends of Bill and mostly Hill were an unmitigated disaster. It was the Republicans that took him out of his slump. Ad it's only the abject failure of GWB that makes him look above average now.

April 28, 2008 10:32 PM

allante said:

One thing Ryan Lizza gets absolutely correct in his New Yorker piece is this:

"...as Clinton campaigned in Pennsylvania, he was rarely the cartoon politician portrayed in the press. He still connects better with voters than his wife or Obama."

Bill Clinton still exhibits rare talent as a communicator and would be a tremendous asset to an HRC adminstration as the country's premiere 'First Gentleman'.

Speaking of Ryan Lizza, he did a rather lengthy bio piece on Obama for TNR about a year or so ago, in which he referred to Rev Wright, Obama's pastor, as a former Muslim. I've been unable to find a source or second reference to Wright as a former Muslim.

Anybody?

April 29, 2008 1:53 AM

ndmackenzie said:

Wandreycer1 writes:

-- And this too hot for TNR post?  I have yet to ever read anything so childish on the web or anything that makes journalists of all stripes suspect.  I pray that someone major took this guy out in an alley on Capitol Hill and kicked his ass.

If you read Ackerman's entire post it is clear that Ryan Lizza is a total prick so I suggest you find something better to pray about. Spencer Ackerman was too nice to The New Republic when he named his blog TooHotForTNR. When he left he should have named it TooGoodForTNR - and that is still true.

April 29, 2008 2:21 AM

matthawk said:

Greenburg is right. Poor Bill and Hillary Clinton; those evil tricky Obama people made Geraldine Ferraro screech for 48 hours to anyone who would listen about race, race, race in the first diversionary move to rally white working class voters to Hillary's cause in Pennsylvania. And it was those tricky Obama people who made Bill Clinton dismiss his significant multi-racial victory in South Carolina with a dismissive comparison to Jesse Jackson. It was the sneaky Obama campaign that forced Andrew Cuomo to say that Obama was "shuckin' and jivin'" Greenburg is absolutely right, the Clintons should never assume personal responsibility for anything.

April 29, 2008 3:15 AM

matthawk said:

I don't think the country can afford another Clinton term in the White House with all of the angst and self-absorption that they would bring. The first Clinton administration was distracted too much of the time with legal problems of their own creation to really look out for the American people. We got by on the Greenspan technology bubble, but there is no technology to create the illusion of prosperity this time. All we will be left with are Clinton scandals, bad behavior, nominal husband and wife blow-ups, who needs more of that?

April 29, 2008 3:19 AM

teplukhin2you said:

ndmack - time to start your own blog, lassie. Posting completely irrelevant links to character assassination efforts of embittered ex-employees of your host's website is beyond bad form. It's b-o-r-i-n-g

April 29, 2008 3:38 AM

Maksutov66 said:

The screeching of the Clinton haters in the media will have no more effect on voters today than it did in 1998.  If their precious Senator Obama doesn't find a way not to look like an uber-lightweight with radical associates, no amount of lying about Bill Clinton's record is going to save him.

April 29, 2008 5:55 AM

The Left Coaster said:

It's Baaaaaack! And just in time for NC! Corrente's Vastleft: You’re not really a racist, are you? But how about if I convince millions of people that you and your spouse are, attempting to cheat you out of a job by creating a deafening whisper

April 29, 2008 9:09 AM

Wandreycer1 said:

I agree Tep - what a sewer pit of a link and a post.  "Uh gee, we're all prima donna and like attention and this one said that and then that one said this and blah blah and Ryan Lizza is a jerk and showed me his blackberry, ew and they were all so conniving and unfair and wa wa wa.."

This is interesting or relevant in what way again? It's Junior High.

Jesus Chirst, the earth is about reading to burn up and no one even remembers why we're shipping people overseas to be killed anymore and I' supposed to care that Ryan Lizza isn't this sniveling jerks best friend?  Honestly, the DC media scene is getting lamer and more narcissistic by the second.

April 29, 2008 9:12 AM

Wandreycer1 said:

Maksutov66, Bill's approval rating is as low as the high water mark of Monica.  I love the guy and think he did a great job as President, but he's being a jackass and that's no ones fault but his.  I am not a screeching Clnton hater.  His South Carolina comments are the worst blight ever on his record as a public official and that's fair.  Again - I love him.

But his behavior IS affecting his legacy and legitimacy in real ways.  

I agree that attacking Bill Clinton's record is the quickest way to get to him, but he's running against Obama as much as Hillary, so it's fair to punch him back.  The NAFTA guy as the champion of Joe Blue Collar is also fair game, a tough sell.  Crying foul just makes him look chilidsh and entitled.

Obama has to run against both Hillary and Bill, a monumental task.  If Bill is puttting himself out there as a hit man and Hillary claims she has all of this relevant experience because of Bills Presidency, then Bill should suck it up and act like a man about it and stop simpering and acting the victim.  It's diminishing him more than Monica ever did.

And I also agree that Bill Clinton connects better than any other politician working today.  

Welfare reform worked (Obama has said as much) and his economy was his, not some fluke.  That's just revisionism.  The Defiiet Reduction Act set that ecomony in motion.  But to try and say Bill doesn't have a big exposure on the effects of NAFTA is just wishful thinking.  It's fair game.  He's welcome to fight back in the policy realm, but the simpering and the rage must stop.

If he doesn't like the youtube age, then for God's sake he can go visit Austrialia for a few months or something.  I say this as someone who loves him: his whining, poor me persona is his least attractive side, its always been there along with the magical side, and his dark side HAS affected his legacy and his future legitimacy.  

He's making himSELF into a punchline, he has personal accountablity for that (accepting that sort of personal accountability thing for mistakes made is not the Clinton's forte in any instance) and it is sad.

April 29, 2008 9:29 AM

virginiacentrist said:

Ok. The problem is this:

He's already a proven liar. He lied for months and months about something. He called a press conference and lied to the American people.

Very few people are proven liars (at this level). It's a rare thing. Every statement after that Lewinsky press conference is now suspect.

April 29, 2008 10:37 AM

chemist said:

There's an easy answer to the question you pose. Why demonize Bill? Because he is a threat to the preferred candidate of the far left. This has been a recurring pattern for over 40 years. In historical order

Johnson - targeted, demonized, prevented from running for office

Nixon - targeted, demonized, driven from office

Carter - Teddy and his cohorts actively worked to cut the legs out from Carter

Reagan - they tried, they did everything they could to get people to believe he was an idiot.. didn't work, the American public didn't buy it

George Bush - current demon

Now, ask yourself who is the current preferred candidate of the far left? BHO of course. Who stands in his way? Hillary and Bill. What do we do about it? Demonize them. Only difference this time is that they were once favored Democrats.

April 29, 2008 10:37 AM

The Plank said:

I'm not going to debate David Greenberg point by point on the recent media trials of Bill Clinton

April 29, 2008 11:08 AM

Daily Intelligencer - New York Magazine said:

In the midst of George W. Bush's failed presidency, many have longed for the days of peace and prosperity, and yes, even the sexy distractions, that we enjoyed during the Clinton administration.

April 29, 2008 11:33 AM

ndmackenzie said:

taplukhin2you -

y-y-y-y-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-w-w-w-w-n-n-n-n

You need to learn some Web 2.0, boyo.

April 29, 2008 12:18 PM

ndmackenzie said:

Wandreyceyer1 -

Whatever.

Unlike The New Republic staff, who appear more interested in catching the next career-ending gaffe by a Presidential candidate, Spencer Ackerman writes about precisely what is happening in this war on his blog:

thinkprogress.org/attackerman

April 29, 2008 12:36 PM

Wandreycer1 said:

mackenzie - there is no way that I could possibly care less about internal squabbles between reporters of any publication.

thanks for the link -

April 29, 2008 1:38 PM

dkrieger said:

The liberal media's and the Left's antipathy toward Bill Clinton is truly bizarre. It's as if they have wiped from their memory banks the glaring fact that Clinton is the ONLY Democrat to have captured the White House since Jimmy Carter won it by default in a post-Watergate penalty shot.

How a party can have such disrespect and loathing for its one successful leader in more than a generation is truly a study in pathological self-destructiveness. Their reward will be a November defeat in an election that should have been a rout.

Bush handed the Democratic Party a post-Iraq penalty shot. Maybe the Left thought it could sneak another Carter past the American public on that logic. If so, they thought wrong.

April 29, 2008 2:03 PM

blackton said:

dkrieger, One, Hillary is not Bill, so my not supporting Hillary in no way reflects on Bill Clinton. Two, Bill Clinton can not be President again. Traditionally exPresidents have stayed out of the limelight, and what was the last thing you heard Papa Bush say or do? Bill injected himself in this campaign way too much. He should simply have talked up Hillary, never say anything negative about any other candidate, and he would have been fine. He was the one with the fairy tale crack. And as to Bill has been the only President... good lord Gore would have won if it hadn't been for Bill.  And since Gerald Ford there have been 2 Democratic Presidents and 3 Republicans so please stop with the "only the Clintons can save us Democrats, we are nothing without Bill and Hillary." 2 party system not two family one.

April 29, 2008 5:52 PM

dkrieger said:

"Oone, Hillary is not Bill, so my not supporting Hillary in no way reflects on Bill Clinton."

Never said it did, though the term "Billary" has been bandied about liberally enough (excuse the pun) on TNR.

"Two, Bill Clinton can not be President again."

But more to the point, you know very well that the reason people hate Hillary so passionately is because they hate Bill and see her as Bill's ticket back into power. Her own political baggage should not extend beyond the opinion of the good people of New York. (And they seem to like her.)

Yes she voted for the war. So did many, many other Democrats.

"good lord Gore would have won if it hadn't been for Bill."

Gore wouldn't  have been vice president if not for Bill, so it's very hard to say where he would have been in 2000 if not for Bill -- perhaps still U.S. senator from Tennessee. And he didn't win, end of story.

"And since Gerald Ford there have been 2 Democratic Presidents and 3 Republicans..."

Ah, but if we count Nixon and Ford, that makes five against two, and McCain will make it six.

April 29, 2008 6:10 PM

Wandreycer1 said:

dkrieger, what a remarkably wrong post on all counts.

I cannot stand Hillary for her voting record as a Senator - the flag burning ammendment and the Bankrpucy Bill alone closed the door on her forever to many of us.  

She did nothing for Democratic values, she did no party building for anyone but herself, she did nothing but bootlick Republicans at my expense as a New Yorker. None of this has anything to do with Bill Clinton.

She somehow escapes all personal responsibility with you people: a terrible Senate record, a terrible record in the few things she's credibly given professional credit for during Bill's tenure, a poorly run Presidential campaign, no natural poltical ability at all, an overwhelming negative rating.  

Instead, their problems are always the fault of various gremlins of the universe, yet again after she and poor innocent husband - the press, sexism, whatever suits the moment.  Is she ever responsible for anything?

April 29, 2008 8:58 PM

myskylark said:

Clinton haters are unreachable by logic.  It's interesting that when the haters are finished with their verbal lynching the Democratic Party will implode.  The historians will sort it all out,, and by the time they do the Democratic Party will have ceased to exist.  

April 29, 2008 11:30 PM

blackton said:

myskylark, wtf? um...how about some examples instead of your just running your mouth? Do you even know what logic is? Logic is the science that investigates the principles governing correct or reliable inference.

2. a particular method of reasoning or argumentation: We were unable to follow his logic.

3. the system or principles of reasoning applicable to any branch of knowledge or study.

4. reason or sound judgment, as in utterances or actions: There wasn't much logic in her move.

5. convincing forcefulness; inexorable truth or persuasiveness: the irresistible logic of the facts.

You have displayed no examples of logic in your post. You simply made a statement without any supporting facts.

Now though I am a Clinton hater, I have shown that I am at least familiar with what logic is, so off the bat your statement above has been shown to be utterly illogical.

The Democratic party will not cease to exist. Do you know nothing of History? The Republican party did not cease to exist after Watergate. The Democratic party did not cease to exist after Mondale's 49 state loss. Please stop hyperventilating. If the Democrats lose the Presidency Congress will still be in Democrats hands. McCain is not Bush either. The worst that will happen is that the Court will become overwhelmingly conservative as opposed to majority Conservative.

April 30, 2008 1:41 PM

blackton said:

dkreiger, not true, I don't hate Bill. Truly I don't. I wish he had followed the example of someone like Harry Truman, or even Papa Bush, and stayed to the sidelines (I have said if he had simply praised Hillary and not condemned Obama things would have gone far better for him and her)

Not sure what "Her own political baggage should not extend beyond the opinion of the good people of New York" is supposed to mean. The same can be said with any candidate. Of course political baggage extends when it becomes nationwide. And it is likely whoever Clinton chose for VP (which is a Constitutional obligation) they would probably have won. Can it not be argued that Clinton's choosing someone who did not win is a black mark then? I don't agree with that, but he could have chosen some candidate less of a drone.

And as to History, going back to the modern era under FDR Democrats have controlled the Presidency more years. 40 to 36 years. In the end so what? Every election cycle is a new cycle. If McCain wins then he wins, America will go on. And in four years hopefully Democrats will just choose another White male southerner (like Warner of Virginia)

Clinton and Obama are both crapshoots. To be honest, I wanted Gore/Obama. I never thought Obama was ready to headline the show. And the Clintons had their 8 years. Love of country means modesty and means making way for the new.

April 30, 2008 1:54 PM

pagingjerry said:

" All we will be left with are Clinton scandals, bad behavior, nominal husband and wife blow-ups, who needs more of that?"

Dear Christ!  I long for those days of Clinton scandals and none of our treasure and blood wasted in Iraq; bad behavior and mortgages people can afford; and nominal husband and wife blow-ups instead of faith-based science.  Dear Sweet Jesus...I NEED MORE OF THAT!

May 1, 2008 2:35 PM