The race baiting of 2008 will make the gay bashing of 2004 look like child's play.  Received an email from a girl in my office today who wants Hillary to win, but forwarded this "Muslim Manchurian" candidate type email about Barack secrectly being Muslim and hiding it from everyone.  I'm just scared that this will be effective and Granpa Simpson will be runnning the show for 4 years.

All I can say to that column is VILE!

I see.

Christopher Orr  thinks it's good for children and the black community when black leaders increase the black community's level of anger, defeatism, paranoia, cynicism, negativity and pessimism. He thinks it's good to jack up the level of the resentment and racism in a community that's already overdosed on rage and victimhood.

.

mghogwild - in 5 months if it's Obama vs. McCain and all she wants is a Democrat in the house, she'll be wondering why so many people are buying that Obama is a muslim when he is not, and it doesn't matter if he is one.  She won't remember that she said the same thing.

Hillary Clinton is despicable.  Period.

Uh... so, that was an April Fools column printed a day early, right?

anonevent:  I hope you are right, but living in the south, I hear these type concerns from people who would vote Democratic in November.  I want to believe we live in a country that can look passed race baiting politics, but I don't belive we do.  I hope I'm very wrong on this.  

OK, Christopher, the column was inelegantly written.  But, essentially it pointed out that

a)  blacks are their own worst enemies.

b) that if black church leaders obsess on and promulgate fantasies of white conspiracies to kill blacks with lab invented AIDS, etc, that is going to exacerbate, not solve, the pathologies of the ghetto.

There are plenty of black people in the middle class who escaped all of this the old fashioned way.  Getting an education, working hard, and taking responsibility for their own lives.

They didn't escape by trying to scapegoat whitey.

Liberals always have 800 ways to rationalize the stark facts pointed out, brutally albeit, in the cited piece.  But, creating excuses for people never helps them solve their problems.

You say the column was ugly.  Yeah, so it was.  And, so are those 8,000 black on black murders.

So is Obama endorsing Pelosi on the Olympics opening ceremony?  Hillary?  McCain?  

When I see Obama supporters call Hillary "dispicable" and think about Darfur and Tibet, it kind of puts things in perspective.  So, do we know our candidates positions on this?  Where's Samantha Power -- still afraid to contradict Obama on a little insignificant issue like genocide?  

good lord jacob. can you really be so obtuse? if an article was written labelling poor people "white trash" who should be sterilized because they have too many children out of wedlock, and Chris were to condemn the article, would you then claim he is advocating that women have illegitimate children?

beyond that, your sheer blindness about race is breathtaking. suddenly you yourself are an expert on the black community, this, I am sure, is from having seen black people on TV.

jacobt1:  You can make that point without having to link it to the high-death murder rate in the black community, which is largely due to gang violence and crime--hardly caused by Wright.  If you don't see that point, I suggest you brush up on your reading comprehension.

Anyone see the Daily Show last night? I'm more convinced than ever that there's an Obama/Hagel thing brewing.

kwaller,

Barak Obama  is despicable.  Period.

anonevent,

In 5 months if it's Clinton vs. McCain and all he wants is a Democrat in the house, he'll be wondering why so many people are buying that Clinton is a monster when she is not  He won't remember that he said the same thing.

*sigh*

Jacobtl,

You are assuming that the presuppositions of the column are accurate.  You are assuming that the conclusions drawn are incontrovertible.  Perhaps we should take a step back and ascertain whether this is so.  

In order to make your case you have to prove some causal link.  Can you do that?  Do you have the data to support your claim?

Finally, do you really think that a Richard Mellon Scaife owned newspaper is going to try to find a way to provide factual reporting?  You know - doing the hard work of running down all of the facts, checking the sociological studies regarding race in America, checking incarceration rates in relation to race, factoring in class, etc, etc.

Why is it that when these knaves set their knives on the Clintons it was a wretched 'vast right-wing conspiracy', but now that said knives are drawn against Obama everything that they foist off on the public is the gold standard of truth and righteousness?  Scaife and his gang of merry character assassins were vile and wrong in the 90's, they are vile and wrong now.  The fact that Hillary is giving them any kind of time and credibility is beyond contemptible.

ralphnelle:  did see Hagel, and was very impressed.  Obama/Hagel would be great, but something tells me Chuck isn't interested.

did anyone notice Hillary's new theme song? It is the theme from Rocky which she is playing in Pa. I don't know if she ever watched it though because she doesn't seem to know that while Rocky never quit, he also lost, and to a black man.

Actually, in his last post, jacob illustrates his arguing "tactics" personally.  He never, ever talks about why he supports Hillary.  Anytime there is anything about her, he pivots and says "Obama is this" "wright wright wright blah blah blah".  Dude- make an actual argument.  Why Hillary?  

Parts of the column do raise interest questions, however -- especially in an age where we're quick to blame video games and violent movies for increased violence among children/teenagers.  

Also, the same arguments are raised about Hamas and the difficulties of achieving peace in Israel:  how can Palestinians ever achieve peace with a people they've been taught to hate and fear?  

Finally, Orr's post fails to mention that Hillary was interviewing for an endorsement from the paper -- and that her comments were in response to questions asked of her.  Even if she sought out the interview, this qualification is an important one.

This stuff is getting way, way, way out of hand. Where is the DLC in all of this? Where is the party whip? If it continues like this, then race will boil to surface in the general, or rather be dragged to the surface by Clinton and her new friends. And while everyone is wondering how it got so bad, another Repulican will be elected.

Get a grip. Stick to the issues. Ignore this race baiting. Get Dean to call Clinton on it.

Blackton - she copied it from McCain, he's been using that song for a year.

Chris Orr.

I could explain to you that that while Bill and Hillary Clinton might had  said 2-3  sentences  that paranoid mind could interpret  as racists or McCarthyism  they make up an infinitesimal fraction of the work they have done over the past several decades, work which has been overwhelmingly committed to improving lives of American people including lives of Africa-Americans.

Instead, though, I'll merely suggest that you have allowed your support for Barak Obama  to so blind you that you and most of Obama supporters are embracing points of view of hate towards Clintons that I suspect you would once have (and hopefully will again one day) recognize as noxious. Save copies of your and your fellow tnr bloggers writings for yourself. Read it again in six months or a year. And let us all know if it's really something you want to defend.

There are parts of the column that raise legitimate questions, albeit in the service of performing a hatchet job on Obama.  Also, as Chris has pointed out, Wright's comments do not obviate the decades of work he has done to address the social ills decried therein.

This is all neither here nor there.  What is of concern is that the Clinton campaign has chosen to link itself with this inflammatory piece of race-baiting.  While Obama's speech on race was full of nuance (and, admittedly, a few elisions), this column is a rhetorical sledge-hammer (written by a local restauraneur, no less) that one desperately wishes the Clinton campaign had had the dignity to ignore.  Sadly, no.  That it comes from the very same people who were once the source of so many of the candidate's woes is ironic, tiresome, and genuinely saddening.

And jacob, your assertions about how despicable Obama is demonstrate a lamentable lack of intellectual depth.  Rather like the strategies of the campaign you clearly support.

Hillary's tactics may be vile, but the simple fact here is that Obama opened this can of worms by associating himself with Wright and his Black Power "theology."

If we're to get beyond race, then we need to... get beyond race. Including disassociating ourselves from dopoey kitschy retro-70s race-soaked ideologies.

If Obama wants to put an end to this, then he should go cold turkey on identity politics and position himself as, to coin a phrase, the NATIONAL candidate whose idea of a "national dialogue" is one focused on national issues, not tribal ones.

Bitch all you want, folks, but the ball's in Obama's court on this one. Only he can bat this issue away.

live by identity politics, die by identity politics...

btw, which TNR staffers wrote that curious editorial decrying our party's endless, self-destruction fascination with identity politics?

kgrant1054,

"You are assuming that the presuppositions of the column are accurate.  You are assuming that the conclusions drawn are incontrovertible.  Perhaps we should take a step back and ascertain whether this is so."

I'm not assuming anything.  Obama said that we need to have a dialogue about race. Let’s have it.

Instead, any opinion that it’s not confirming narrow bounds is considered “noxious”.

Blackton

Hillary has the wrong Rocky movie. the one that fits isn't the first or even the second one. There's no Apollo Creed in this story.

It should be obvious to anyone that Obama is Rocky. And Clinton is Drago.

PS- And Bill is Brigitte Nielson.

Chris Orr, TNR Editors generally --

Speaking of the identity politics issue, where is the TNR leader "Bush's Last Laugh" that appeared Sunday night, was displayed yesterday and has now vanished from the site?

Here's the cached version: www.tnr.com/.../story.html

An April Fool's joke? Ask not at whom the chimp smirks, indeed

Point on Hagel -- not exactly beloved by the pro-Israel crowd.  

jacobtl,

Your intent with your original post was not to begin a conversation.   You stated (in a simple rephrashing of the article itself):

"Christopher Orr  thinks it's good for children and the black community when black leaders increase the black community's level of anger, defeatism, paranoia, cynicism, negativity and pessimism. He thinks it's good to jack up the level of the resentment and racism in a community that's already overdosed on rage and victimhood."

How is this the opening to a constructive discussion on race?  What questions are you asking?  Can they be asked in such a way as to not immediately set people into a defensive crouch?   These are important issues, but the article and your goading post do not prompt a desire for sober reflection - your tone intends to shock and annoy.  In the case of the article in question, do you really think that the author wants to engage in a constructive discussion on race in America, or does this person simply want to tie Obama to the most incendiary of Wright's statements as a way to scare people into voting for other candidates.

Finally, the article, and others on this list (notably, Tep), have attempted to morph Obama into the caricature of Pr. Wright that was used to great effect on Fox News (you know, the one who only screams and rants).  Do you have any evidence, any evidence at all, that Obama actually shares Wright's more foolish beliefs?  Not guilt by association.  Proof.  Evidence.  A speech.  An article.  A book.  A vote.  Something that we can actually point to that proves that Obama believes such things.  Did not Obama's Philadelphia speech reject Wright's old forumulas regarding race and history?  I want to see something that actually depicts Obama as something other than one who is trying to find a way to move beyond the old fight.  Again, do not point to something that Wright, or James Cone, or anyone else has written, point to something that Obama has said or written.  

Orr writes, "...I could explain to you that that while Jeremiah Wright has said some unquestionably inflammatory and destructive things, they make up an infinitesimal fraction of the work he has done over the past several decades,"

Chris, how many people have been driven out of their jobs, out of public office, etc for one inadvertent remark that was deemed "racist," "sexist," or simply politically incorrect.  

Rev Wright may well have done much good in his career.  I'm glad to accept that as fact.  But, the sermons he delivered were written and planned with malice aforethought.  

Any other public figure making such remarks, even by accident, would pay dearly for them.  As it is, the Rev is losing any skin off his nose.  But, ain't helping his putative acolyte, Obama.

Chris Orr,

“while Jeremiah Wright has said some unquestionably inflammatory and destructive things,”

“you that you are embracing points of view”

I’m not sure, I understand your point of you. You seems to agree with  Richard Mellon Scaife that

Jeremiah Wright’s speeches have had a “inflammatory and destructive” effect on young blacks .

Are you arguing with  Richard Mellon Scaife  about the scale  of  this  a “inflammatory and destructive” effect.

you guys you guys you guys you guys - !

The wrongest thing about this article is the "Does Obama think -?" theme, which I paste here:

"Does Obama think it's good for his daughters and the black community when black leaders increase the black community's level of anger, defeatism, paranoia, cynicism, negativity and pessimism? Does he think it's good to jack up the level of the resentment and racism in a community that's already overdosed on rage and victimhood?...

Does Obama think it improves matters when black leaders tell blacks that they're poor, sick, jailed or hooked on drugs because of a government plot? Does it help to fix things if the choir is singing "The devil made me do it," the white devil?..."

And the obvious answer is: NO, asswipe, Obama doesn't think that, which he took great pains to say during the speech he gave, and which I already knew from everything he's ever said or written, before he even gave the speech. And which you probably already know, but are hoping others don't. Asswipe.

Slate's Tim Noah supplies some helpful background on new Clinton BFF Richard Mellon Scaife here and

Jacobt1,

I don't want to speak for Orr, but clearly there is a difference between observing that Wright said some “inflammatory and destructive" things, and a column claiming that Wright [and Obama] are complicit in the violent deaths of 8000 young black men. Saying that there is a difference of "scale" between the two points is a gross misreading.

How you find anything legitimate in that column is beyond me.

Not only is Obama responsible for those 8000 murders.

He believes that the earth was created in 7 days!

He's a Christian, right? And Christians believe in the Bible, right? And the Bible states that "God" created the earth in 7 days, right?

So, therefore, Obama is an idiot!

Because, after all, when a guy sits in a bench at the same outfit for an hour or so once a week (or less) for several years, that means beyond a shadow of a doubt that he believes, espouses, and is in fact responsible for everything that every authority figure, thought leader, reference book, or other primary source used by said outfit draws upon, refers to, worships, cites, or otherwise peddles to anyone within earshot or eyeshot.

Yeah, right.

The irony about this whole affair is that the people preaching to the choir have nothing whatsoever to do with Barack Obama or Jeremiah Wright.

And the sad thing about this whole affair is not the despicable trash promulgated by Wright, but the far worse degradation of the democratic process by the vampires of societal division keen on sucking electoral victory from those among us who are still alive. The black community and America will get over Jeremiah Wright and the foibles of identity politics; in fact, the black community and America for the most part already have (as Obama pointed out in Philadelphia), which is why the 8000 murders have little or nothing to do with Wright's bullshit (can you say: "education, jobs, and handgun control," boys and girls?).

The black community has been doing a fine job of working its way out of Wright's myth of despair (note blacks leaving inner cities for better lives elsewhere). Meanwhile, I hope that the larger America can at least admit its vulnerability to the more ruinous, pernicious effects of vampires like Scaife--ignorance, fear, cynicism, distrust, lock-and-load, got-mine-up-yours.

tsk, tsk, Chris. I suspect jacobt1 is in reality a somewhat precocious 15 year older. Defeating his arguments is too easy, might I suggest in the future a "you don't say, that is interesting." He will doubtless grow out of it, we must not do to much to damage his self-esteem.

"Rather, he wanted to list a bunch of murder statistics certain to remind white people why they are sometimes scared of black people and then, through a ridiculous leap of logic, connect those statistics to Wright and Obama. Hence, noxious, vile and stupid."

This is my concern.  527 groups going crazy with the most absurd claims of black radicalism or Obama's secret Muslim faith.  McCain can denounce all of them, but that won't mean anything to the undecided voterwho doesn't know any better.  I voted for Hillary in the AR primary, but I'm not pleased with the scorched earth policy she is now employing.  That being said, even if she dropped out tomorrow, the race/cultural baiting will continue regardless.

Chris Orr,

1. What this whole thing has to do with Hillary Clinton?

Hillary Clinton  had a meeting with the editorial board of a newspaper where this article was published. Is this a good reason for a character assassination of Hillary Clinton?  

As  we know, Barack Obama met on a few occasions with Jeremiah Wright, who as you admitted  said some unquestionably inflammatory and destructive things,

www.cancerhelp.org.uk/.../default.asp

2. "Apart from infectious diseases, most illnesses are 'multifactorial'.  Cancer is no exception.  Multifactorial means that there are many factors involved.  In other words, there is no single cause for any one type of cancer. There  are many  carcinogens that  that can help to cause cancer."

Denying  that unquestionably inflammatory and destructive  speeches is a carcinogen just ridiculous.

Somehow, I doubt, that you would find excuses for a chemical company occasionally unlawfully polluting environment in Black neighborhoods because they donate a part of their profits to local schools. They would not be responsible for illness of local population, but they would contribute to such illnesses. Even a single pollution accident may  push a person into getting a cancer. We can never know.  A civil duty of any employee of such company to disclose such violations and not to find excuses. I guess, this is no time for a duty, for Obama supporters.

mghogwild:

"That being said, even if she dropped out tomorrow, the race/cultural baiting will continue regardless."

Yeah, and Obama's spot-on responses will probably continue too. And d if you're going to worry about - er - other people's racism to justify not voting for the black guy, then I guess that's it. No black people for president, ever. But while we're worrying about other people - don't you worry the teensiest bit about other people's white-hot hatred of Hillary Clinton, a hatred that no longer knows any partisan divide?

psant:  I agree.  People truly hate Hillary, plenty of them here in AR do, and I'm not trying to use other people's racism to justify not voting for Barack.  If he is the nominee, which I think he will be, I will throw all my support behind him and try to persuade people around me who worry about the black radicalism/muslim manchurain candidate crap that they have to see beyond ignorant fear mongering.  That still won't change the fact that people will buy into that noxious crap and vote for Granpa Simpson.  I'm not trying to bring Barack down, but plenty of people will be once he is the nominee, and they will go about in the way this article was written.  You might not want to hear that, but it is true.

CORRECTO:  "As it is, the Rev ISN'T losing any skin off his nose.  But, ain't helping his putative acolyte, Obama."

mg, I know they will. They already are. I'm just saying we have to face it and deal with it, not hide from it or surrender to it.

I'm worried about it.  That's all.  Just like I worry about Hillary continuing on in her current fashion.  Just like I worry about the Hogs going 0-11 next year.  I'm not hiding from it or surrenduring to it.  Just worrying.  Face it and deal with it?  Absolutely.  Does that make it go away or change uninformed people's minds?  Probably not.  After the last two presidential elections, you'll excuse me for being a little skepticle and worried about American voters and their motivations.

Ok. I take your word. And yeah, people are horrible, I'm the first to gripe. But more and more I know that acting like they aren't sometimes works. They get a little nicer and decenter. It's a weird phenomenon, and to take advantage of it you have to see those happy possibilities with one eye even while you guard your ass with the other. It's necessary to do, in order to create a more perfect union and all.

psant:  Well said, and here's hoping we can create a more perfect union.

Pittsburgh's larger, more-profitable, not-owned-by-a-right-wing-lunatic newspaper, the Post-Gazette

Richard Mellon Scaife's Pittsburgh Tribune-Review has come out with its anticipated endorsement of