Not sure how this is desperate -- only that Clinton finally feels it's politically safe to comment.  And her comment was very smart.  

And if responding to a candidate's mistakes is a sign of desperation, wouldn't quick-draw Barack be at the bottom of the barrel?  (Not that I think this is the case -- only that I'd like some balance to your analysis.)  

Anything to get away from Tuzla Airport.

They're trying to knock the Tuzla thing out of the news.

"You don't choose your family"

Now I get it. Hillary Clinton hasn't ever heard of divorce! I always wondered why she stuck around through about a dozen public humiliations.

Clinton needs to milk this manufactured issue for all it's worth, with Obama once again gaining ground on her in the polls she really has no alternative.  It's either that or tell us some more of her combat zone whoppers.

According to Reformed (Christian) theological tradition, of which the Congregationalist (UCC) church is part of, we don't exactly choose our church.  This is a theological mistake that is popular in America.  We tend to view churches as voluntary associations or as self-help groups.  But, theologically, there is much more to church than this.  It is God who directs our lives, who leads us some places but not others, who calls us to be a part of the body of Christ through baptism.  It shows theological, devotional, and spiritual maturity of the part of Obama to recognize that although he disagrees with many things his pastor preaches, they are bound to each other in mutual love and respect.

In the Christian tradition, familial ties are less important than ecclesial ties.  Jesus tells his disciples to hate their families and to follow him.  Paul argues that the old patriarchal system is inverted in the Kingdom of God.  Through baptism, Christians join God's family.  We call God "our Father", and we recognize each other as "brother and sister."

If everyone in America only worshipped at a church where they agreed with the pastor, spiritual growth would be impossible.  To grow, we must recognize that differences between people of faith, and differences of opinion between the pew and the pulpit, are necessary.  Otherwise churches become narcissistic and egoistic.  Otherwise churches become about what we believe instead of about God's act of self-sacrifice and radical love.

Or, more correctly, HRC saw Obama handle the Wright situation fairly well, recover from his dips in the polls, and got the sense - along with most Obama supporters and neutral observers - that the issue wasn't moving forward, if not fading away. So she decided it made good sense to stir the shit up again. Get everyone to stop talking about her fantastic lies about going to Bosnia. It's not 'desperate,' exactly, but maybe one click away.

Speaking quirky religion - is it true that HRC is a member of the Fellowship in Washington D.C.? I read something about that on Huffington.

What's your beef, zengerle?  He timing is correct.  While the media was screaming about this and running the DVDs over and over, it would have been stupid for her to try to get a word in edgewise about it.

With things dying down, a period of quiet having ensued, she had an opportunity weigh in.  And she said excatly what common sensically occurs to most reasonable people:  "I personally would not have chosen a pastor like Rev Wight."

Woody, there was a Mother Jones article (yes, I know, but it was pretty well sourced) about HRC's membership in a quasi-theocratic prayer group.

I didn't choose to be a member of the Church of Obama that is TNR. It chose me. And now my spiritual growth knows no bounds.

Oh I would Channy - I love what he said about the prison industrial complex - attacking this country as damned for it strikes me as exactly what Jesus would do.  

As far as the rest of it - it sounds like a Publc Enemy song.  I could care less.  Why is it that no one makes McCain or any other Republican personally responsible for the vile rantings of Ann Coulter - in front of CPAC, etc - whose entire life work has consisted of fomenting hatred and pain for money.  All with a cross around her neck. Nice touch.  She's pretty much the banality of evil with an ugly horse face and an uglier  heart and soul.  Why doesn't McCain denounce her?  What does it say about his judgement that he does not?  

99% of Wright's work is righteous good works - he works tirelessly for those with nothing.  Can Hillary effing piece of crap say the same?  Can you Channy?   This whole thing is so manufactured, it's absurd.  

Wandrey,

In McCain's defense, Coulter did say she would vote for Hillary over McCain. It's pretty clear she hates him. So, I don't think McCain really needs to say anything about her.

Hagee, on the other hand...

Of course, this post actually focuses on Clinton (i.e., the real story), whereas the centerpiece of Kirchick's earlier post on the same topic is a completely unfounded personal attack on Andrew Sullivan.

No, the comment about not being "MY pastor" isn't bad, just priggish. It's the association of Wright's sermons, via Don Imus, with "hate speech," that will hurt the party and the country. It's presumptuous for me to say what many African-Americans will think, but it's a sure thing that her calling it hate speech will be repeated millions of times by right-wing talkers. Nice job, Hill.

I personally would not have chosen to tell whoppers to try and pad my resume.  Hillary has the stench of desperation all over her, as she should.  A short time ago, she wouldn't have risked the backlash by wading into the Wright controversy.  Now she figures she has nothing left to lose.  But its too late. Her credibility is sinking so fast no one is going to care what she says about anything.

Doesn't Hillary have a church problem of her own? The details escape me.

I'm with you, Wanderceyer.

It is a bit sickening hearing people smear this Rev. Wright guy. Politically, he's far left - he's a left wing nut who tends to use hyperbole.

But let's be liberals for a second and use our brains and attempt to understand the complicated world...

Wanderceyer: the majority of Hamas's works are good works (healthcare, welfare, food, security).  But those things come with a price (e.g. reinforced hatred of Israel; frequent Israeli retaliations to suicide bombings and katushas).  Are we to excuse Hamas's indiscretions because it also does good for the Palestinian people?

I happen to think Wright is getting railroaded, is generally a good righteous man.  But don't take my word for it, take Hillary's PREACHER's:

www.foundryumc.org/.../Statement%20concerning%20Rev.%20Jeremiah%20Wright.pdf

Scottlooper, Wright doesn't use or even advocate violence. The Hamas analogy falls apart at that basic point.

Swap HUSBAND for PASTOR. Who shoulda left who when? You don't pick your parents or your brothers, sisters, or cousins. But you sure as hell choose your spouse. And you can unchoose him too, if he betrays you. And if he betrays you THAT MUCH, you all but have to if you have even a shred of dignity. Unless you're just in it for the power.

Hey, every marriage has its own rationale, and if she wanted to stay with Bill, that was obviously her call. But I don't think she's one to question someone's loyalty to a chosen relationship to someone just a wee bit more than a tad shy of perfect.

So Scott you're now comparing Wright to a terrorist organization? Wow....jumping the shark has taken on a new level. I thought Wright's comments were over the top but I have yet to see his "jihadists" don vests of dynamite to blow up white concert goers at Millenium Park. Me thinks you're over stating the gravity of Wrights "hate speech" a bit too much. It's one thing to strongly disagree with a person's view point about the good or bad America has done for minorities and defend that right and quite another to equate any inflammatory speech as equivocal to terrorist organizations who happen to use their humanitarian arm as a front for financing terrorist attacks.

wandrey, no politician is required to disavow everybody who supports their Party.  (And lately, isn't Coulter backing Mrs. Clinton?)

No wandrey, I do zero good works in the community.  I raise my family, try to do it well.  My wife, a much better person than I, is very involved in community projects.  So, I take credit via osmosis and occasionally signing a check.

And, I hate to be crass, but I suspect the Rev Wright has not sworn a vow of poverty.  Looks to me like his church takes in a good bit of coin.  

Maybe he lives well.  Maybe he lives like a monk.  I'll wait to hear from some Chicago reporter on that score.

If you agree with the good Rev's crowd-grabbing serrmons, fair enough.  You won't be elected president.  An  Obama himself disavowed the statements you endorse.

Democrats keep trying to compare the Falwells and Robinsons who back GOP candidates to the rev Wright who is an intimate advisor and mentor to Obama.

These are rather different things, as you, being pretty sharp, well know, wandrey.  You're simply being disingenous because you're pissed that Obama is having a problem.

I agree that this smacks of desperation, although it is hard to disagree with the basic substance of her statement:  You don't choose your family, but you do choose your friends.  What does Jason not agree with there?

"But let's be liberals for a second and use our brains and attempt to understand the complicated world..." says VirginiaCentrist.

Yes, Virginia, that's a Liberal all right.  While you're busy standing there understanding the world, the world swoops down and kills you.

I also notice that Liberal "understanding" only extends to the most extreme utterances of Leftists.  That "understanding" dries up damn quick, if someone utters so called "hate speech".  Meaning an idea you disagree with.

dbhuff,

Nice catch.

isn't Hillary a wiccan? Of course she wouldn't choose any Christian church, that would upset her goddess Sapphos.

As to the rest, I agree with Andrew Davis. people act like choosing a church is like choosing a brand of detergent, and in this case they are condemning Obama for what the detergent salesman has said.

Senator Clinton's pastor at Foundry United Methodist comments on Rev. Wright:

www.foundryumc.org/.../Statement%20concerning%20Rev.%20Jeremiah%20Wright.pdf

"The Reverend Jeremiah Wright is an outstanding church leader whom I have heard speak a number of times. He has served for decades as a profound voice for justice and inclusion in our society. He has been a vocal critic of the racism, sexism and homophobia which still tarnish the American dream. To evaluate his dynamic ministry on the basis of two or three sound bites does a grave injustice to Dr. Wright, the members of his congregation, and the African-American church which has been the spiritual refuge of a people that has suffered from discrimination, disadvantage, and violence."

talkingpointsmemo.com/.../185548.php

Josh Marshall has the best take on the situation I've read today.

The point is not whether Hillary can make hay of this but whether the GOP will, in the fall. Count on it.

So, do you think Hillary, in taking this shot, thinks Obama is a Christian for sure now?

I keep reading comments by people who say that Jeremiah Wright’s ravings are only a small part of his legacy. That may be true, but even in the sermon that TNR published the other day he went off on his rant about “The 4-H club--that's Hannity, Hillary, Hobbes, and Haters.” So Hillary Clinton now belongs with the worst of Fox News and the Aryan Nation?

If Wright is not the figure of those clips, then let’s have his sermons that have been recorded put on the internet for all to read or hear. And let’s have the list of days Barack Obama was in church, so we can know what he heard then.

Tep.....

"Hay" has already been made of it.  Everybody who watches tv or listens to the news has heard about it, ad nauseum, for the last week.  I don't think the Republicans are going to change anybody's minds in October by showing this stuff again.  It's power to shock does not increase with repetition. And by then a lot of folks will have gotten over it and looked at Barack anew in the context of the price of gas, the situation in Iraq, the ever deepening recession, the collapse of the mortgage market, and sundry other problems and challenges that will matter a whole lot more than some old stale tapes of somebody he knows that they saw and heard last winter.   Which is not to say that it has not done damage....but I suspect the damage has been done.  He has most of year to recover, as he has already begun to do.  If they had released this stuff in the last week in October or the first week in November, that would have been fatal.  This is just "vetting", and it's good to get it over with now.

And it gave him an opportunity to show his "leadership" skills, and I suspect lots of folks, as they take it in, particularly the superdelegates, were impressed.  

"And let’s have the list of days Barack Obama was in church, so we can know what he heard then."

Let's not.  Let's concentrate on more important things such as the economy, terrorism, health care, Iran, China, and so on.  Let's let the matter die away, and see who wants to keep the pot boiling.

I agree with vanwurs.  And, in fact have said something similar before.  After enough repetition, even the worst atrocity becomes wallpaper.

However, the damage has been done, the imprint is in the minds of millions.  For some who might have considered Obama, he's off their list.

For others, they'll consider other factors as mitigating.

If I were creating agitprop against Obama, I would give the good Rev a six month rest.  And then maybe bring the stuff back, used very judiciously, in the late summer and early fall .

The guy from the tv station or production house who cut together a video didn't do a bad job.  but, he overplayed his hand with that Max Headroom (those who remember) stuttering repetition of a soundbite effect.

Some people just don't know how to stay cool when wielding a hatchet.

"And let’s have the list of days Barack Obama was in church, so we can know what he heard then."

You shouldn't say this out loud, francoir. Keep it quiet and surprise us with it later. After all, when it comes to the Spanish Inquisition ...

"Our chief weapon surprise and fear ... fear and surprise .... our two weapons are fear and surprise ... and ruthless efficiency ... our three weapons are fear, surprise, and ruthless efficiency."

Fair enough, vanwurs. That which does not kill me (him), makes me (him) stronger and all that. Let's hope he learns something from it.

Like, maybe, that he's just a politician, and that _there's nothing wrong with that_

ChanRobt - I'd bet euros to donuts that Roger Stone et al are doing just that. 6 months, exactly

'Choice' of a pastor?

************************************************************

I have been making the rounds of ' MSM' Blogs to make this point.

There was a Rasmussen Poll done on Wright.

<a href="www.rasmussenreports.com/.../just_8_have_favorable_opinion_of_pastor_jeremiah_wright">Poll on Wright</a>

Here's the money section for me:

<b>

Overall, voters are evenly divided as to whether Obama should resign his membership in the Church—42% say that he should while 40% disagree. White voters, by a 46% to 33% margin, say that Obama should leave the Church. African-American voters, by a 68% to 16% margin, say he should not. Wright retired last month as Pastor of the Church. </b>

While there was a 13 point difference FOR among Whites, look at the gap among Blacks - 52%.

<b>52% AGAINST. </b>

Why?

Church isn't some simple place where you go on Sunday to listen to the pastor for 30 minutes.

Church, in the Black Community, is all about COMMUNITY.

It's why, it's literally an all-day affair.

Black people do not change churches like they do purses. I am in my 30's, and outside of school, I've had exactly 2 church homes in my life. It took nearly 2 years to find the second one, but I found it. Commitment to a church isn't something that's done fly-by-night. It's not some fleeting commitment. It is a given that you will find something that you don't like about any church you attend; which is why it is the general COMMUNITY that will ultimately make that decision.

The Black Church is the ONLY institution, in the United States of America, which, from its conception,

<i>Validated, Supported, Incubated, and Treasured. </i>

<b>BLACK HUMANITY. </b>

Period.

Don't think I'm correct, then name me another institution which has done so.

The attack on Trinity is seen as an attack on the Black Church, and thus, by extension, an attack on the Black Community as a whole.

During times of slavery and Jim Crow, the Black Church was what reinforced Community.

Post Civil Rights and Integration, the Black Church is now what brings Community together, considering that the Black Community, like the rest of America, is becoming more stratified along the lines of class. The Black Church is really the only place in Black America where you will consistently find the doctor and welfare mother in the same building, with the same purpose. It's the place to break down those walls of class that are building up.

To disown Wright and Trinity would be to disown the Black Community itself, which is why Obama said in his speech he couldn't. He understood that fundamentally about the Black Community, and he understood that political expediency would mean the doubting of the existence of his soul by the Black community. Obama would never be trusted again by Black folk if he had disowned Wright & Trinity. Even Black folk that don't go to church understand that you don't mess with the Black Church - it's just not done.

francior,

I can't help you with the specific days Obama attended church, but as far as Wright's sermons, a number of them, including fuller versions of some of the ones at the heart of this firestorm, have been posted online here:

www.youtube.com/profile_videos

Take a look for yourself.  Personally, I think the comments are much more understandable in context, although I still disagree with some of them and think that some of the inflammatory rhetoric was unnecessary in others.  More importantly, in relatively few of the sermons does he come off as a firebrand.

One of the problems here is that only the most outrageous clips get played on TV because his more mundane sermons aren't considered newsworthy.  "Obama's Pastor: Jesus Loves Us" just isn't a compelling headline.  This leads people to misjudge Wright on the basis of an availability heuristic.  This is the same reason why people tend to overestimate the likelihood of dying in sensational event like a plane crash or a natural disaster, and underestimate the likelihood of dying from things like heart disease.

The one benefit of this whole episode with the Rev is that it has helped Americans get a better perspective on race. Here is the Republican Party's perspective in SC, the home of racial harmony:

www.thestate.com/.../356420.html

So, yesterday Hillary said of Jeremiah Wright, &quot; He would not have been my pastor. You don&#39;t

If you're stil out there Channy - you're right. I find this whole thing to be absurd - the Republicans, you see, are allowed to have hate monger priests on their team - its expected actually.  No hate mongers means no nomination with those people.  But no one even cares anymore about that.

Come on - does anyone really think Ann Putrid Coulter (didn't jaunty B used to call her "the Object"?) is supporting Hillary because she wants her to win?

Scottlooper - the Hamas topic is fair to criticize and if there is anyone more vile than Farrakan, I have yet to see them (well, the Object comes mighty close).  Wright needs to be counseled himself, work with some friends in his own community and evolve. I'd like to see him make the effort.  Meet with Jewish folks even, out of the limelight, no one wants or likes to be used. I mean so he can really grow as a man and as a leader.  

I used to attend a black church in DC ( I am white) back when I was still trying to believe in that stuff, and well?  Black folks do not sass their church elders, period.  It's no excuse, but the culture is very very respectful of its elders.  No one ever said anything nasty about anyone when I was there, especially against Jewish folks (who I will not hear a word against).  I just think perspective is in order here and so much of the outrage feels so manufactured.

That does not mean Obama shouldn't be President.

I'm still here, Wandrey.  Where would I go?  

I was kinda teasing about the Coulter supporting Hillary thing.  I get it, it's satire.

I don't think either of us are going to win the unsavory backers contest.  The GOP fraternizes to the extent they deem necessary to pick up votes with people whose beliefs I, in some instances, consider primitive.  

But, the Democrats only slightly distanced themselves from the likes of the Black Panthers and are perfectly happy to have Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton in their corners.

Jackson is a race pimp and an extortionist.  Sharpton is a race baiter of whites and has never admitted that the Tawana Brawley was a complete fraud.  Either he was hoodwinked, or he helped perpetrate it.  But, he didn't mind the immense mileage he acquired from it.

To my bemusement, eve that blowhard Rightist O'Reilly has Sharpton on all the time, and apparently lunches with him regularly.  Likes to brag that they're friends to prove how fair and balanced he is.

So, are people totally full of s**t in both parties on both sides?  Absolutely.  It is really the Montagues and the Capulets most of the time.  As you and I are both smart enough to know.

I believe the proper term is "race huslter" the term coined by the venerable Stanley Crouch (you ever read his work Channy? The jazz critic turned social critic? Sort of an iconoclast in the black community - a bomb thrower but not orthodox in any way, in other words a real human being).

Rainbow Coalition indeed. Pulease.  I do sort of feebly admire the work he has done on Wall Street, with little Jesse Jacksonish fan fare and minimal complaining.  He's trying to build up black capital, a worthy endeveor.  But yep, he's a race hustler.

Do you remember when O'Reilly was so amazed that people had manners in the restuarant Sharpton took him to?  Not to worry about Sharpton, I have no doubt that when he goes, a trapdoor will open up under him and he will be on a shoot straight down to you know where.

Jaunty B and I have been on a jihad for awhile now for people to stop bringing those two up whenever a person of color is mentioned.  They are old news, like talking about Frankie Valli and Elizabeth Taylor or something.  It's a big world out there, lots o' black folk in the public eye now.  Those two don't represent much anymore, except as living proof that black folks are utterly forgiving people who do not sass their elders, sometimes to their detriment.

Wandrey, I haven't read Stanley Crouch, but he sounds intriguing.  I'll check him out.

I think you and Jaunty have an admirable ambition in exiling J.Jackson and Al Sharpton.

But, in fairness, Pat Robertson and the (dead) Rev Falwell are pretty old news, too.  And they are regularly trotted out here as the John McCain's close spiritual mentors.

And, also in fairness, Sharpton is a very regular talking head on cable, and the redoubtable Jesse is still quoted on racial matters and held out as an "African American" leader.

In fact, I'll gladly never mention either of those two again if you'll also have banished the Jesse Jackson created term, "African American".  A useless mouthful that adds nothing to the simple "black".  

Or should I start characterizing myself Anglo-European American?