Jason (or someone), something's wrong with the plank.  I can't access Snipergate.

Well, Carville looks like Yoda and sounds like Darth Vader.  When was the last time he was tryly relevant?  Years of sleeping with the Gorgon must have taken a toll on him.  Doesn't he realise that he confirms all the negative stereotypes of the Clinton campaign?  What, Mrs. Clinton is owed loyalty because of her husband's appointment of Mr. Richardson to two offices?  For ever and a day?  Regardless of what might be good for the country or for the party?  

Ach.  Ugh.  Euh.  Yucch.  The English language fails to capture the true essence of these kinds of comments.

This raises so many questions. Is Hillary Jesus or is Bill? Is Obama Barrabas? Or is it simply some veiled threat?- Remember Judas allegedly hanged himself. If I were Bill Richardson, I'd stay in public over the next few days.

Well, maybe Bill Richardson's loyalty to his country his stronger than his loyalty to the Clinton's.

Which, of course, is an outrage.

Richardson owed the Clinton's a lot. He acknowledged that, but obviously without the vitriol towards himself that Carville and McAuliffe expressed. I think that's why he waited so long. If you're gonna shoot at the king (queen), you better damn sure kill her. I think he waited until he knew she was cooked anyway before going for it. He's got enough insider knowledge and is in touch with enough super delegates that he wouldn't have done it if he wasn't convinced it was over. He jumped on the winning horse, that's all.

Too many echos of the Bush administration, where loyalty always trumps professionalism or public service. Loyalty as the overiding positive attribute is what comprises hackery. This is part of why some of us are a bit disillusioned with the Clintons. (And sorry, they cannot be treated separately.) And I must say: Bill is doing a superb job of diminishing himself. Sad.

T-minus 5, 4, 3, 2, 1 on the Zengerle schadenfreude....

There is a kernel of substance to Carville's complaint however outlandishly it is overstated. Richardson, it is stating the obvious to say, can endorse whomever he wants. But his coming out as he did is so redolent of opportunism that I can smell it up here in the frigid wilds of Ontario.

Didn't Bill Clinton famously charge Bush's father with McCarthyism when the elder Bush suggested that it was unpatriotic for Clinton to have demonstrated against the Viet Nam War on foreign soil?  If the analogy to McCarthy is strained now, it was strained then.

miceelf, if Richardson is Judas to Bill's Jesus, then Hillary would be Mary Magdalene, yes?  (There's a loaded statement.)

The analogy breaks down once you really start to think about it, though-- it's been awhile since I was in Sunday School, but I don't think Mary Magdalene ever tried to take credit for turning water into wine, for raising Lazarus, etc.

dpinkert writes, "...Didn't Bill Clinton famously charge Bush's father with McCarthyism when the elder Bush suggested that it was unpatriotic for Clinton to have demonstrated against the Viet Nam War on foreign soil? "

It was unpatriotic for Clinton to have done so, dpinkert.  We have a tradition of keeping arguments about foreign policy at home.

Being as the Clintons threw many of their loyalists overboard over the years when said loyalists became politically inconvenient, I can hardly shed a tear over Richardson's putative treachery.

ChanRobt:  Whether or not young Bill's actions in England were unpatriotic, it was wrong back in 1992 and it is wrong now to make liberal use of the McCarthy analogy.    

dpinkert, I agree with you.  Accusing someone of "McCarthyism" is nearly as ubiquitous and intellect-free as calling someone a "fascist" or a "Nazi".

Well, Carville comes from La. and you have to take that into consideration. The State is still on Napoleonic law legal time.

Jackson: Why blame the Napoleonic Code?  You might as well blame the Acadians, or the French language, or Katrina, or Miasma from the Swamps ... :-)

Oh the Swamps - it brings me back to Yoda.  I think he (Carvill, not Yoda) to the dark side has gone.

Yeah, Jackson, the French are ruled by the Napoleonic Code.  And none of them are like James Carville.

One is enough on a planet of 5 billion.

It's truly amazing how many of the Clintons friends and especially people who once worked for the them, are now doing just about everything in their power to prevent the Clintons from getting back in the the White House once again.

It's more than a bit telling that Richardson and others who know the Clintons very well, obviously don't believe that their leadership would be best for this country.

Of course when comparing the Clintons to Barack Obama and what he offers this nation, it's very difficult for them or anyone to measure up to what constitutes a political sea change that will sweep this country out of the past and into the hope of a bright new century.

"Yeah, Jackson, the French are ruled by the Napoleonic Code.  And none of them are like James Carville."

I have  met Carville like people when I was in the service stationed in the South. I also spent itme in France and I can  tell that Carville ain't unique.

Yes, yes, yes, OK.

Can some of the TNR writers please summon up the guts to write about the Clintons' tax returns?

I was shocked by the McCarthy comment. I don't expect much from the Clintons. I have a higher bar for Obama. I hope he didn't approve of this beforehand, or afterwards, for that matter. Why go there?

Can I dice for her robes?

Hmm. I think the Obama camp is trying to buy a week -- given they've lost the judgement weapon. Richardson, McPeak etc. were carefully timed -- and Carville no doubt understands what sound bites mean in a weekend news cycle.  OTOH, I don't think that the overall tactic is going to work.  The Wright issue is really not about race or religion in America -- it's about Obama's judgement and character and willingness that the American people demand of their politicians to do the sort of cold-blooded things that Presidents sometimes need to do in the interests of this nation.

As to patriotism -- Wright is only relevant if Obama continues to make the case that blacks cannot be held accountable for their views toward our nation of laws and our constitution because .. uh .. certain things are "bred into our experiences and won't go away".  Far more damaging to him on the patriotism front are his association with Ayers and others who have a history of affiliations with the Communist party. In that sense -- he may have been standing aside silently when McPeak made his McCarthy remark -- because he suspects what's coming. Good move to gauge what reaction they may get if they have to resort to that defense in the coming weeks.

Zengerle, you puerile Obamaphile, Carville wasn't comparing Clinton to the Messiah, just the situations.  If he had called Richardson Benedict Arnold, you doubtless would have claimed that Carville was comparing Clinton to George Washington.  Anything to score a point for your boy, eh?

Or as e.e. cummings might have put it

to zergerle

you: file

like a puerile

Obamaphile.

but Carville

's still

with Hill and Bill

It's also very irritating the way the board software inserts a blank line for every carriage return even when you don't want one.  Let me see if I can copy the text here and then delete them . . .

you: file

like a puerile

Obamaphile.

but Carville

's still

with Hill and Bill

It's going to be a cold, cruel day for the Obama crowd when the euphoria over his candidacy comes back to earth. The man is a politician not the second coming. Please Obama save us, change us, we will follow you!

Give me a break.

It doesn't work.  It's as if this board is designed to go backwards in terms of writing options for posters.

Jason,

I finally saw this clip and to be honest, it read in print a lot worse than it comes off on tv. When I saw and heard it, it did not strike me that Randy Bill was trying to smear Obama. Mainly because he was building upon a verbal line of argument giving his reason for supporting his wife. I was sort of surprised that I wasn't offended by the clip.

I think that Bill's previous comments have just created a situation where everything he says will not be filtered through a bigoted lens and he comes up short every time.

In other words, I think he got a raw deal here.

jm_rice,

Who cares whether Carville was implying anything about Hillary?  Comparing Richardson to Judas is absurd.  The idea that Richardson owes something to Hillary because of the appointments that Bill gave him is disgusting.  If Carville wanted to criticize Richardson's endorsement, he should have pointed out that Richardson said he would follow his state (on the other hand, Richardson also said he would endorse whichever candidate had a clear delegate lead after the Ohio/Texas primaries).

Betrayal is something new in politics?

And I suppose Bill Clinton appointed Bill Richardson out of purely altruistic motives with no notion whatsoever that those appointments would raise Clinton's approval with Hispanic voters.

Simple politics - you do things for others to help yourself. If those others feel grateful, so much the better, but it's foolish to count on unending gratitude.

And what about Hillary undercutting Bill on NAFTA. Where are the Judith/Holofernes comparisons?

And here I thought Carville looked more like Syzygy Darklock:

i207.photobucket.com/.../syzygy-carville.jpg

of "Dreadstar" fame:

en.wikipedia.org/.../Dreadstar_(graphic_novel)

I don't understand why Jason Zengerle is so hot and bothered about Air Force General Tony McPeak's

ironyroad:

I liked the ee cumings. Very clever.  Try

using shift-enter instead of carriage return to avoid

extra

lines

you: file

like a puerile

obamaphile

but carville

s' still

with hill and bill

Nope, doesn't seem to work.  Thanks anyway.