"...contempt is so thick it's dripping off the page."

I see no contempt in the posted remarks. You are trying to lay the groundwork for charging the McCain campaign with "racism."

It's worked in his run against Hillary and you are now turning your guns on the other candidate.

If Obama ever gets elected (god help us) I can see people like Jason accusing any non Black critic of an Obama administration of racism.  

Contempt or no, at least McCain is disagreeing on a matter of policy.  That's certainly not out of bounds.

Contempt or not, this guy can't write for shit.  "Iran, which trains Shia extremists and is known to arm and equip Sunni extremists, a fact Senator Obama is apparently unaware of, will also view our premature withdrawal as a victory, as will other countries in the region, and the biggest state supporter of terrorists, a country with nuclear ambitions and a stated desire to destroy the State of Israel, will see its influence in the Middle East grow significantly."  Please get this man an editor.

Yeah, Jason! How dare a racist like you cry racism with this racist post that ... well ... uh ... never mentions race or racism at all.

Oh.

Still: We know what you meant, you race card-player!

I HAVE contempt for Obama.  He's single-handedly responsible for the dumbing down of our political culture and discourse.  Every day, I have to hear how wonderful it is that teenyboppers are following a Messiah figure because they find him trendy and inspiring.  I should know; I'm a member of the demographic!  Barack Obama is the Paris Hilton of politics:  famous for doing nothing beyond appearing on the covers of a few glossy magazines.  Put him in a few GQ's, and you can bet he'll have a fan base.  But trends die, and so will Democrats' hopes for November when Obama's novelty wears off, leaving him to look just like the naif he is.

He also happens to be a liar, but that's another issue entirely.

I always thought we won the war when we pulled Saddam out of his hole and got the democratically elected government up and running. Right now we are basically peacekeepers. To demand "benchmarks" is a violation of the democratically elected governments sovereignty. And since the Iraqi government knows this and also knows no matter how much we whine we won't leave (under a Republican admin) then they are free to ignore the benchmarks and nothing will change, we will continue to spend hundreds of billions of dollars in Iraq because we essentially don't trust the Iraqis with running their own security.

The only question is, is maintaining Iraqi security indefinitely worth the hundreds of billions more that we will spend. We can never achieve the victory the Republicans seek because we can never trust the Iraqis enough to leave. Al Qaede will forever be on the run provided we remain there forever. And Iran will not be disappearing anytime soon either.

I don't know, but equating leaving the country of Iraq to the Iraqis themselves being equated with loss makes this war a forever no win situation. They have now set the bar so high that we can never clear it.

I support the continued US presence but this argument above is so porous anyone can drive a truck through it.

"He's single-handedly responsible for the dumbing down of our political culture and discourse."

Totally. I couldn't believe it when Obama made those ads that morphed Daschle into Saddam Hussein and compared Max Cleland to Osama Bin Laden.

FWright - You are correct. Further, maybe it should be pointed out that the McCain folks think as poorly as they write.

"To pretend that our defeat there won't provide an even bigger one is foolish supposition".  

Speaking of foolish suppositions, since Salter has brought it up, why do the McCain folks say that withdrawal equals defeat? We have heard McCain trying to equate Iran and al Queda in run up for attacking that country as well, but nothing about how he intends to 'win' a three front war.

It is time for Obama to put the McCain's feet to the fire, and ask why he intends to follow a failing policy. This is a policy that is getting American soldiers killed and wounded while extending their service tours and that is weakening the US economy. Let's bring up a different set of dangers for Salter and McCain. To really win would require a reinstatement of the draft and a militarization of our economy (similar to WWII). We cannot fight and occupy Iraq while remaining prepared for other military threats (including McCain's war with Iran) with a purely volunteer military. As a draft would destroy any Republican's chance of re-election, it would never happen. Without the draft, we are left with a weakened and depleted military that has been stuck in an untenable situation where they have to continue to fight an endless war without the full support (other than magnetic ribbons on the cars at home) of the country, and with no exit strategy. McCain is using a domino-theory arguement,with Islam in place of communism, as scare tactics. It seems like that should be familiar to him, and that he should be wary of it. One Viet Nam should be enough, pursuing a similar policy is a set of dangers that McCain should recognize and avoid.

hog, nturner he is just a teenager above so he can be forgiven for his hyperbole and ignorance. I was a stupid ass when I was his age myself (granted not that stupid, but young people are getting stupider).

one thing, a little off thread, I remember you mentioning how corporate malfeasance hurts so many people via high prices, etc. I want you to know I don't live in the United States, gas prices here have not gone up for a long time, and I buy a lot of my food at farmers markets, and that too has not gone up. The days when the US sneezed and the world caught a cold are over, now it just says "God bless you" and sells us a box of tissues.

I know, nturner it is incredible how Obama's support comes entirely from teenyboppers.  The age 13-17 voting block is the sole basis of his votes.  Another brilliant analysis.  

Although I don't recall quite saying that Blackton, I did say that Wall St. bailouts come at the cost of higher prices for consumers, and I meant American domestic consumers.

As for your observation wrt 'decoupling,' what I think what has occurred is that, for a long time, the U.S. was the 'global Keynesian,' the country that 'demanded' from the rest of the world. Today, lots of other places have rising and serious demand (China, India, Russia, South America) so a fall in American demand (which has only just started) is likely to play a relatively smaller deleterious role globally.

hog, yeah, I thought as much but since you addressed it to me I just wanted to mention I am a little out of the loop. sometimes I read a posting a day later but the thread has played out so I didn't respond then, but I was thinking apparently more about what you said then you did. hah.

Blackie, I don't mean to quibble, but I have to disagree about the gas prices, though I'm not sure where you live, exactly. In Europe, anyway, there's been a rise in both oil and gas prices that mirrored the rise in US prices.  A weakening dollar doesn't explain all the disparity, though it's true that the slope in our curve has been steeper, recently.

www.cfr.org/.../OilPrices_Graph.jpg

www.aaroadwatch.ie/eupetrolprices

Anyway, I guess I'm just saying... our sneezes are TOO communicable!!

I mean, um, we still have world influence. Yeah.

blackton:  not only what you wrote above, but also the danger of a completely new military threat suddenly appearing and our force structure (esp. Army and Marines) so stretched that it can't respond.  In fact, "Afghanistan" might arguably be another word for that threat.

At the moment the surge has accomplished this:  of around 700,000 soldiers between Army and USMC, around 450,000 are either in Iraq, within 12/15 months since coming back, or are in a 12/15-month pre-deployment window.  I am ready and willing to be corrected on the numbers by anyone who knows the details more than I do.

All this for a war for which nobody can define either victory or closure, and nobody knows how to get out of.

Bush's legacy.

Yeah, world influence.  That, or a fractured Mideast and an oil-thirsty Chinese.

an oil-thirsty China*, even.  =)

thetraytiger  I live in Mexico, in fact my living is pretty much dependent on Mexico's oil reserves since Pemex essentially funds my state University. While the Cantarell oil field might be drying up it is still producing a windfall for the Mexican government. And a new deep-water oil field, which is believed to contain 10 billion barrels of crude is helpful as well.Don't forget, Mexico is the 3rd largest exporter of oil to the United States.

As to your main point, yeah I am exaggerating, I just wanted to try out my own new cliche I thought up by myself I did.

Oh, it's only cliche when it's been used and abused.  Indeed I should've given you more credit for that one.  I especially liked the snarky "God bless you."  But Blackton, come on. Everyone knows that U.S. piety is unrivaled. Of *course* He blesses us!

Anyway, hopefully Mexico invests some of that oil windfall.  It'll be like our Mexican Marshall Plan... only... um, by accident. =)

I dunno, I thought the speech excerpt was poorly written and condescending to Obama, especially coming from a guy like McCain who can't remember that Iran hates al Qaeda except when Joe Lieberman is there to remind him.

Blah, blah, blah al Qaeda, blah, blah, victory, blah, blah, defeat. They should have a machine produce these press releases..not unlike those Steve FM programs that Clear Channel uses.

Politicians must have an impossibly low opinion of voters.

wow, another incredibly stupid post by jacksondyer. Can you please post something that does not make the claim of reverse racism?

Since we keep hearing that McCain's gaffes about Iran/Iraq/Sunni/Shia was a product of lack of sleep, does it seem odd that he's claiming he's in the one ready to answer that 3am call? Just a thought.

Wouldn't a Shiite dominated government led out of Iran crush the virulent Sunni Al Qaeda movement in Iraq after we have gone? For all his love of "strategy" he does not grasp one of the most essential dynamics in the region, that Al Qaeda is in direct conflict with Iran and all Shiite nations. Then of course, there is his even more genious reliance on the dominoe theory, another cornerstone of "strategy".

I am starting to think McCain's Sunni/Shiite "gaffe" was substantive, not a Reaganesque predementia lapse, or fatigue talking.