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COLUMNISTS
TODAY'S STORIES
11.03.2008
Race and the Election

My esteemed colleague Chris Orr can't figure out how the vote in Mississippi can have been so racially polarized, yet only 31 percent of Mississippians said race was "important" in their choice. Of course, Chris implicitly provides the answer by asking the question. Because of Mississippi's history of racial conflict, one assumes that some of its white voters were not being candid with the poll-takers--or, perhaps, with themselves. My rule of thumb has been to double the percentage. But Chris's observation is important in another respect.

If you look at other states where Obama did poorly among whites, you find almost identical percentages who voted for Clinton and who said race was a factor in their decision. That suggests that in these states, too, race was not a marginal, but an important factor in Obama doing poorly among these voters.

Let's compare Ohio and Mississippi. In Mississippi, 11.2 percent of Clinton voters said race was important; in Ohio, 11.4 percent. In Mississippi, Clinton won white Democrats by 70 to 23 percent and white independents by 55 to 40 percent. In Ohio, she won white Democrats by 70 to 27 percent and white independents by 53 to 45 percent. In Mississippi, 30 percent of voters said they would not be satisfied if Obama were the nominee; in Ohio, 32 percent said so. (I'm adding those who would only be satisfied with Clinton to those who would satisfied with neither.) In other words, the anti-Obama white vote in Mississippi and Ohio looks remarkably similar. And the same results show up in other states like New Jersey. In New Jersey, where Clinton won white Democrats by 70 to 28 percent, 10 percent of Clinton and Edwards voters said race was an important factor in their decision; and 32 percent of these voters said they would not be satisfied if Obama were the nominee.

I know that when I noted these percentage in the Ohio and New Jersey exit polls, some readers thought I was reading too much into them. Wasn't NAFTA decisive in Ohio? But the similarity between the polling in Mississippi to that in Ohio and New Jersey suggests that outside of the upper tier of what demographers sometimes call "greater New England" (from Maine to Minnesota and over to Washington), Obama has continuing problem in winning over white voters.

--John B. Judis

Posted: Tuesday, March 11, 2008 11:48 PM with 21 comment(s)

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ralphnelle said:

"Obama has a continuing problem in winning over white voters." Yes, John, for the umpteenth time, to vote for him against a white *democrat." Why is it you avoid this crucial issue in your long string of posts on this topic? It's getting extremely tiresome.

By the same logic, Hillary can expect to win only 10 percent of the black vote, and can thus count on losing the general. Sound realistic? Of course not. At this point she cannot do as well as she would have if she hadn't insulted black voters with her ugly campaign tactics, but she'd do much, much better in the general vs. a republican than she is now against Obama.

Your argument has been decisively refuted by many of us on this blog. Can you please respond to some of these arguments before you post _another_ one of these fish wrappers?

March 12, 2008 12:13 AM

WoodyBombay said:

This is as illogical as saying that HRC has proved she should be the nominee because she won the California and New York Democratic primaries.

March 12, 2008 12:44 AM

virginiacentrist said:

The exit poll says 75% of republicans voted for Hillary.

That explains your racial disparity.....

99.99999999% of those republicans were white racists.

March 12, 2008 12:51 AM

virginiacentrist said:

Judis -

Seriously. You call yourself an analyst. But you fail to even admit that there is a difference between the Democratic primary and the general election.

There is no evidence that Obama has a problem winning white voters in the general election. The only thing we've seen is that Hillary Clinton wins low education white voters in the democratic primary, No correlation.

March 12, 2008 12:53 AM

ralphnelle said:

Judis,

Look at the polling on Ohio and PA. Obama wins PA vs. McCain; Hillary loses. Obama and Hillary both win Ohio, albeit not by much, and they both lose Florida.

One further request: if you choose to continue your fallacious projections from-primary-to-general, please refer to a few relevant polls while you're at it. Could help.

March 12, 2008 1:04 AM

achester99 said:

Please, as someone from Minnesota currently living in Boston, don't call Minnesota part of "Greater New England."  That's really insulting.  How about referring to the whole region as the Greater Upper Midwest?  It's bad enough they stole Big Papi, Moss, and KG.

March 12, 2008 1:20 AM

ralphnelle said:

I think Judis and Cohn would also include Wyoming in their "Greater New England" fantasy.

March 12, 2008 1:35 AM

monnaliza said:

How can people say this election isn't about race???

Obama is getting 80-90% of the african american vote.

The "this election is about race" goes both ways. Obama gets the black vote, but he is going to lose with Asians, Latinos and other ethnic groups.

I also don't get all the perplexions (ok, I made up that word) with the cauceses - people are want to demonstrate they aren't bigots and are happy to vote for a black man. Too much pressure on the african american to go to Hillary, all the blacks will chastise him/her for not voting for Obama. And all the white, who in privacy would vote for Hillary - with all the world watching in a caucus, they will vote for Obama to show they aren't "prejedice"

And of course there is the fact that in caucuses folks end up voting for their 2nd or 3rd choice. More so in the beginning, people showing up in the caucus and wanting to vote for Kuchinich and then have to go for their #2 choice.In the Democratic primary - people are either for Hillary or they are not, so when forced to choose a second choice, those who are not for Hillary will go to Obama as a lesser of 2 evils.

Seems pretty cut and dry to me.

March 12, 2008 2:02 AM

aeromonas said:

Hear, hear, ralphnelle and virginiacentrist.

I'm so sick of this bullshit parsing of exit poll data in an attempt to divine a candidate's chances in the general election.  In my line of work, medicine, we're asked to acquire more than a passing familiarity with statistical methods, and this kind of microanalysis is the worst kind of pseudoscientific nonsense.  It has ZERO validity.  NONE.

The only thing of any meaning and relevance that can be said about the Mississippi primary is that among the Democrats who voted to chose their party's nominee, Obama won by a 23 POINT MARGIN.

But if we're going to blow a lot of unfalsifiable smoke about the Mississippi vote, why not try this on for size?  In this state where 31% of the potential electorate is black, the presence of a black man on the ticket may so energize Mississippi black voters as to spur a massive surge in voter registration and turn-out and put Miss. in the Dem column for the first time in almost 30 years.  Sound far fetched?  Well, it is.  But only because Mississippi whites are so solidly Republican, there's little hope of ANY Democrat turning the state.  So should we pay attention to the voting patterns of the few white Democrats and cross-voting Republicans who decided to turn out for the Democratic primary?  Not a bit.

March 12, 2008 6:56 AM

lymon1 said:

There's a big difference between "white voters" in Wyoming and Mississippi -- stereotypes about white supremecists in the West aside, it's the South where you see confederate flags everywhere you look.  I think the same attitudes run through some of the appalachian/eastern areas.  

The problem for Obama isn't an insurmountable "white racist vote" but how bitter this campaign has become.  Neither candidate can win if Dems don't rally around the nominee.  I think Clintons supporters though may need to see that with her weak distancing of Ferraro, that may be impossible in the general -- up until now polls indicated she still was getting good support from African-Americans if she won the nomination, but I'm having a hard time envisioning it now -- this was really "in your face."

March 12, 2008 7:28 AM

fougasseu said:

Check out bluedogs.us.

Read how Blue Dog Democrats feel about Hillary, Barack, gays, immigration, gun control, and so on.

This courting by the Clintons of the Blue Dogs is creepy. The enemy of my enemy is very white.

You just have to listen to Bill Clinton's call-in to Limbaugh's show when he was barnstorming Texas to hear the siren call to all Blue Dog Democrats. Atwater would be impressed. Just keep droppin' those Gs, darlin'.

What an unholy trinity: Rush, Bill, and Hillary. Strange bedfellows, eh?

March 12, 2008 8:37 AM

aeromonas said:

And what about Clinton's list of primary states that do and don't count?  I mean, she made no mention of the Mississippi result today.  No mention at all.  What is that supposed to make black Democrats think?

In effect she's saying, ''You folks can give your support to Obama 90-10 and thereby hand him the entire Deep South, but I'm just going to pretend you guys don't exist.  Because, to be frank, it's all with the superdelegates now anyway, and if this Mississippi result allows me to promote the idea that Obama has a problem with white voters, that he's really just a special interest candidate a la Jesse Jackson, it only helps me with the super-Ds.  Now on to Pennsylvania!  And, uh, if the lines to vote are five times as long in North Philly as the rest of the state, it's NOT MY FAULT.  (Just Ed Rendell's.)''

March 12, 2008 8:51 AM

aeromonas said:

And the effin MSM keeps picking up the Clinton propaganda.

On Morning Edition today, they report the Mississippi result, but they can't keep themselves from tacking on a 'trouble with white voters' coda.  And in the same story they highlight the six week wait until PA which they describe as a contest that has a motherload of 158 delegates that 'may put ONE OR THE OTHER candidate over the top.'  Like, say WHAT?  In what universe?

Obama needs to keep campaigning in PA, NC, and Indiana, but if through nothing but repetition he needs to force the news media to report that he is all but guaranteed a majority of pledged delegates and the popular vote and that Clinton's only rationale for staying in the campaign is that she thinks she can persuade a super-majority of the superdelegates to override the primary and caucus results and cede her the nomination.

March 12, 2008 9:00 AM

arsonplus said:

John, the problem with your entire line of thinking is that Clinton's problems are bigger than Obama's. He can woo back those voters with a smart VP pick ... a Kathleen Sebelius on the Ferraro flap side or maybe a Jim Webb in the case of those Regan democrats. [a shame since I think he'd prefer Mark Warner].

What can she do? How does she win Ohio without Cleveland or Pennsylvania without Philadelphia? She may even lose Maryland!

Unfortunately, all of that adds up to Obama may lose -- but Clinton will lose. The only question that really matters in that context is which one of the two is stronger down ticket in defeat.

March 12, 2008 9:37 AM

BHLnyc said:

aeromonas, you missed two other NPR lapses.

One, they failed to report that it was a complete blow-out in Mississippi. No mention of the 24 point gap.

Two, they referred to Clinton as having "denounced" Ferraro's remarks. Denounced? By what objective measure could Hillary's comment be seen as a denouncement??

March 12, 2008 11:12 AM

blackton said:

ah springtime in that leafy New England state of Idaho, where Obama won by a mere 50%. And that greater New England state of Alaska, or Hawaii, they are both the same. Or his barely losing the rock solid New England state of New Mexico, that was a big blow. Obama has won 2/3rds of the contests, and if you look at the map see Hillary has only won the Southwest and a few midwestern states. Honestly, outside of Latinos, dumb as bricks poor whites, the frightened elderly, and women who stick with women, what does Hillary have?

I won't dispute that maybe America is too racist to elect a black man, but that doesn't mean we should not go down fighting. Judis ignoring the untold millions of whites who have voted for Obama is pathetic.

March 12, 2008 11:50 AM

The Plank said:

As Isaac notes below , Geraldine Ferraro was on national television the morning , defending her controversial

March 12, 2008 12:03 PM

arsonplus said:

blackton

There's a fight for your right to party joke in there somewhere.

March 12, 2008 1:14 PM

Crock1701 said:

John: Look at White Male support: Any comparison of White Democrats overall includes a bias in favor of Hillary because of her strong support among White Female voters (those are her "identity" bloc).  It's seemed to me (though I haven't crunched the numbers, just remembering the exit polls from each election night.  As such, I think concerns on these numbers are overblown.

March 12, 2008 1:32 PM

teplukhin2you said:

Too late for Biden? Superdelegates, are you listening?

March 12, 2008 1:40 PM

The Plank said:

If you haven't seen it, there's a heated debate going on on our site between Sean Wilentz and

March 12, 2008 4:01 PM