"get away with the smear as long as they add.."

.Can Christopher Orr point to any example of Obama campaign smear against Clinton and any example of Clinton fairly criticizing Obama?

Um, he's not from Somalia....

If Clinton is supposed to be such an expert on foreign relations her people should know that the country Obama is from is the United States. His father is from Kenya. Africa is not all one country. Somalia is not "his native clothing."

Jeez.....

I'll give Hillary the benefit of the doubt and go with the former. It's certainly consistent with the idiocy of her flacks (including her husband) up till now. This is a campaign that doesn't know how to, or care to, stay on-message. I suspect that if the Obama camp makes a stink, Hillary will fire Jones as she did Shaheen and condemn his words. But yeah, Shaheen, Johnson, William J. and now this woman (and who was it that claimed Obama's mailer was like the Nazis marching through Skokie in early February?) I don't blame you for fearing the worst.

Question, though, if this was planned, what does it mean? That Jones received talking points? That she specifically was asked to make these statements? That there's a tacit understanding within the Clinton campaign that the photo was circulated with this goal in mind? Please explain.

I think Hillary has plausible deniability on this (well, I'm sure she does as she's apparently not involved enough in her campaign to know the Texas contests' rules or the existence of Obama's mailers till now). But it will hinder her making her self-righteous attack on Obama tonight. Expect another campaign in the vein of the January one were they were both yelling at each other. And this time there'll be no Edwards calling truce from the sidelines.

Oh, and Stephanie: his native country is the United States of America.

I think I'll take both as the answer to your question.

Stay classy, Clinton campaign.  What an effing disgrace.  

Hawaii? Is that the country she's referring to? Weird, all those Don Ho movies painted a totally different picture of island life.

Wasn't she the Clinton supporter who was on the air when Chris Matthews embarrassed that Obama-supporting state legislator? Who, incidentally, couldn't name any specific legislative accomplishment of Hillary's either, but asserted that she had achievements "all over the world"?

Anyway, it's not so much shocking as it is sad to see a successful black woman openly push the white-supremacist idea that black people aren't really Americans in order to advance the campaign of a powerful white politician.

This must have seemed like such a slam dunk to Wolfson, Penn, et al -- Let's get the photo out there with plausable deniability on where it came from, point out that there's nothing at all wrong with it, criticize Obama for getting defensive over something he shouldn't be defensive about.

It's fun to watch it blow up in their faces.

"Either Stephanie Tubbs Jones is an imbecile"

Tubbs-Jones is a smart lady and a very capable legislator who has the respect of her colleagues. She has seniority on the Ways and Means Committee...

But...I'm still apt to conclude that this is just a silly gaffe.

"I think I'll take both as the answer to your question."

Hilarious.

There's no doubt Tubbs Jones is an imbecile. On the other hand, the "native clothing"/"clothing of his nation" language sounds planted. Maybe Ohio or Texas will be the new South Carolina. That seems increasingly likely these days.

It really doesn't get lower than this. Karl Rove couldn't do it any better.

Astonishing how Clinton went from being the (underserved)  'inevitable candidate' to a (well deserved) 'shame on the Nation' status. She should carefully avoid using the word 'shame' in the future, or all of her mirrors will shatter in her face.

Chris,

I heard Donna Brazile, an avid Obama supporter, make the same point on CNN's Situation Room last night. I don't have the transcript, but  she said something like: "African-Americans are very proud of their origins. I have been to Africa three times and have clothing that I wear that reflects those visits. There is nothing to be ashamed of in wearing African clothing, only something to be proud of that many Afrcian-Americans share." As I say, I don't have the exact quote, but this is my recall of the gist.

So why is it okay for an Obama supporter to say it, but a sign of deep duplicity and concealed motivation when a Clinton supporter says exactly the same thing.

LOL ralpnelle, I really do think Rove would have done it better.

asnevitt,

The clothing is traditional Somali, but she's still wrong because Obama's family is Luo, not Somali.  The photo was taken in the predominantly ethnic Somali part of Kenya (in the northeast).  There are also large ethnic Somali populations in Ethiopia, Eritrea and Djibouti.  

You guys, you're not going to believe this, but Obama is going to show  up to the debate tonight in the clothing of his native country. Navy suit and red tie, I think. That's what they wear in his country, at least the male elders. Of course, there's nothing wrong with him wearing the clothing of his country. I fully expect the Clinton campaign to release a photo of him in this native garb just to show us all exactly how much there is nothing wrong with it, Thank you, Clinton campaign, for leading the way in tolerance. I look forward to that photo.

pc,

Two points.

1) Brazile did not say his "native garb" from his "native country."

2) I don't think she was echoing a talking point or that she meant the it in a racist way. But it's a dumb thing to say and part of a pattern of Clinton supporters shooting off their mouths and getting their candidate into trouble. If someone who knew little about Obama tuned into either of those viewings what impression would they be left with? In the first, that Obama, like all African-Americans, has African roots. In the second, that Obama's native country is not America. Again, I think Tubbs-Jones misspoke but it was a dumb thing to say.

Is Brazile an Obama supporter? I ask sincerely -- last I heard she was uncommitted thought angry at the Clintons for their post-NH talk.

I actually agree with pccostello.  I don't think she was trying to paint Obama as non-American, just kind of (perhaps clumsily) saying how it is native to his land (which as EricWitte points out, is wrong, but that isn't really the point.  I doubt Penn and Wolfson are that versed on different tribes and cultures).

This is a minor point.  

What no Clinton supporter has justified is why the campaign would release this photo in the first place? Supposedly it was sent with the tag, "If this was Hillary..." Meaning what, exactly? That the press likes to distribute pictures of Hillary in foreign garb? I don't recall those photos, at least not used in a negative light.

I think a staffer saw the photo, thought Obama looked goofy, and sent it to Drudge (or whoever it was originally sent to). Whether, somewhere, subconsciously they were thinking of the African/Muslim thing can only be guessed at, though it's hard to believe that wouldn't occur to them.

The worst part is that the Clinton campaign had to be so aggressively defensive about it. Why not tactfully distance her from the release of the photo (TPM had a good article on this)? They end with more egg on their face than they would have otherwise.

Nice try, pccostello.

But there is a difference between saying African-Americans are proud of their origins and saying Obama is wearing his "native clothing" and the “clothing of his country.” The former implies Obama’s ancestors are from Africa, the latter implies Obama is from Somalia.

The problem is not the picture itself–dignitaries wear local garb on visits frequently; the problem is it appears the Clinton camp is trying to fuel the Obama-is-a-foreign-born-Muslim lie to bolster her support. Their refusal to deny giving the picture to Drudge, and the comments by her supporters (see above clip) only reinforces this suspicion.  

I, for one, am tired of the Obama campaign releasing things that could be used against them, then blaming them on the Clinton campaign and calling them "smears." I guess he's just running defense against a future run against McCain by putting everything out in the open now so that McCain can't do it later, with the added bonus of blaming it on Clinton.  Politics as usual...Obama as usual.

Donna Brazile has not committed to either candidate.

One more thing: it is very, very common for educated African-Americans to speak about their heritage as coming from somewhere in Africa.  Congresswoman Tubbs-Jones' comments were not at all out of the ordinary...except for people who presume that any reference to being African must be an insult.  Ah, the subtleties of racism.  

And since when does 'native country' mean 'country where your father was born'? Surrogates or no surrogates, we are dealing with the most vulgar, divisive and idiotic spin here from the Clinton camp.

Other note: thanks to all this tabloid-level racist spin from the Clintons, the true winners are the xenophobic wings of the Republicans, whose work is being done for free and (ironically) courtesy of their nemesis H.R.C.

AK, black people aren't the only Americans who think and speak about their "heritage" and identify as cultural descendants of foreign lands. I'm descended from Irish Catholic and Scots-Irish-English Protestant ancestors. It was a big deal when I was finally able to visit Ireland and Scotland, even though my ancestors got off the boat here in 1848 and 1642, respectively. There are even photos to be found of me wearing a kilt.

The point is that the kilt is not my "native clothing" or "the clothing of my country." The country of one's parents or grandparents or more distant ancestors is not one's country if one is a U.S. citizen.

Imagine if Karl Rove had used this phrase to say that Obama is not an American. Would we be looking for ways to excuse his phrasing, or would we be incensed at yet another heinous Republican attack on a Democrat's American loyalty?

"Stephanie Tubbs Jones is an imbecile."

Yes, she truly is.

Another fine example of playing of subtle word-play to imply that Obama is more African than African-American. Rep. Stephanie Tubbs Jones is playing off the implicit inter-racial and cultural tensions between African-Americans and African immigrants. The former referring to the later as monkeys and blacker than black, the later referring to the former as shiftless, drug-dealing. lazy thugs.

Has it really come to this point of playing these games? This reminds me of the old Chicanos talking about "wetbacks and beaners."

It's one thing to talk about a person wearing traditional clothes of ones cultural heritage, it's quite another to imply they're your custom garb from your 'native' country. Of course, what's worse, as everyone has pointed out is even the Clinton's proxies can't get the smear 'facts' straight.

AKossnar : sure. blame it on Obama. good lord, the problem with the Clinton campaign is that it is full of enablers such as yourself, people who won't stand up and say, "hey, this is bullshit, and if we release it will kill us." Time and time again they have gotten into hot water to the point that anything they release will be viewed cynically. Why would they have bothered with this picture in the first place, don't they have better things to do, like canvassing voters?

Is anyone talking about Hillary's ancestry? Anyone? So why the hell would she bring up his? To help him?

Tick tick tick Hillary, you are losing time. Try to lose with some class, like Huckabee has.

Kossnar, save the conspiracy stuff for the YouTube comments page. Everybody on this site understands that Obama did not release the photo himself in a sneaky attempt to tar Hillary Clinton as a racist. Your absurd comment that you're "tired" of Obama's conspiracies -- there have been so many! -- makes you sound like a nutcase.

"Is anyone talking about Hillary's ancestry? Anyone?"

New time-filling question for cable news pundits: "Is Hillary Clinton 'white' enough to win the English-American vote?" Rodham being an English surname. She also seems to have Welsh ancestry.

But you can sympathize with the Clinton campaign.  A brief list of what hasn't been working for them recently:

1) "Experience!"

2) Tears

3) "I can say 'change' too -- it's just a word, you know"

4) grassroots organization

5) fundraising

Trying to suggest that Obama is some sort of weird foreigner with funny clothes who snuck into our body politic is about all they have left.

hahahahaha rhubarbs

Imbecile or evil?  Writing from Cleveland - that'd be the former.  Thank God I don't live on the east side - my rep is... oh, right, yeah... Dennis Kucinich.

First, I'll agree that this statement from Tubbs-Jones is indefensible.  

However, as far as the photo goes, it seems the only evidence the Haters have that it came from the Hillary Campaign is their supposed refusal to deny it.  But is that even true?  I read several articles about this ridiculous non-event.  All of them were extremely vague about timelines, but if you read closely you can find that at least three things happened over the course of monday after the Drudge story appeared:

1) There was a conference call with Wolfeson, in the morning, in which he denied that the Campaign was involved but couldn't deny that a staffer might have been.  

2) There was a later statement from the campaign saying "Enough . . . etc." (this, after the Obama campaign had jumped all over it without a shred of evidence that it was true)

3)  There was another statement later in the day basically repeating Wolfeson's statement.  

I didn't see a single quote from the Wolfeson conference call, but the "enough" statement, of course is all over the place.  Why?  Because its interesting and reflects poorly on the Hillary campaign - especially if the earlier response is downplayed, which, of course, it is, giving the impression of a "non-denial denial."  

Should Hillary have come out herself and issued a strong statement denouncing the photo, etc.?  I don't know.  Doing so would confirm to most of you that the photo was actually "circulated"  in the first place, which is doubtful in and of itself.  At any rate, would anybody even believe her? Probably not.  

At the most, this incident is an argument for Hillary's inability to manage the press, etc. which is a perfectly valid reason to not vote for her.  But it only proves a ruthless lack of scruples to those of you who are already convinced of that.  And of course, there's really nothing she could say or do that wouldn't prove those things to those of you who already believe it.