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COLUMNISTS
TODAY'S STORIES
14.02.2008
More Penn Nonsense

From his memo yesterday:

Change Begins March 4th. Hillary leads in the three largest, delegate rich states remaining: Texas, Ohio and Pennsylvania. These three states have 492 delegates - 64 percent of the remaining delegates Hillary Clinton needs to win the nomination. 

Well, sure. If Clinton wins all three states by margins of 100-0. I mean, honestly: Is there any spin too idiotic for this man to offer?

--Christopher Orr

Posted: Thursday, February 14, 2008 3:46 PM with 17 comment(s)

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teplukhin2you said:

How did this guy get hired, again? Really, what is his expertise? Spin? Then why 1) is he the chief strategist and 2) is his spin-product so awful?

February 14, 2008 4:20 PM

adaglas said:

Don't discount it - she's polling very strongly among carbon-based life-forms with opposable thumbs whose existence date to 1990 or earlier.

February 14, 2008 4:21 PM

davidsmith192 said:

Haven't you heard- The Hillary campaign is going to retroactively change those three states to winner take all status.

February 14, 2008 4:28 PM

jacobt1 said:

What's so idiotic here? Do they need to win 100-0 ?  

"Hillary leads in Texas (IVR Jan 30-31), Pennsylvania (Franklin & Marshall Jan 8-14) and Ohio (Columbus Dispatch Jan 23-31). After March 4th, over 3000 delegates will be committed, and we project that Hillary Clinton and Barack Obama will be virtually tied with 611 delegates still to be chosen in Pennsylvania and other remaining states. This does not even include Florida and Michigan (where Hillary won 178 delegates), whose votes we believe should be counted."

Is this all you do whole day, trying to find any quote from Clinton land that can be reintepreted   as foolish  or racists?

February 14, 2008 4:33 PM

adamvaught said:

Jacobt1,

The whole day? No. It usually only takes a few minutes.

February 14, 2008 4:48 PM

chloemegan said:

"And in 1976, Jimmy Carter lost twenty-three states before winning the nomination, including: Massachusetts, New York, New Jersey, Maryland, West Virginia, South Carolina, Alabama, Illinois, Mississippi, Minnesota, North Dakota, Nebraska, Wyoming, Montana, Idaho, Washington, Oregon, Nevada, California, Arizona, Alaska, Hawaii, and Utah"

In mark penn's memo he said carter won despite losing all of the above states.  Doesn't this cut against the Clinton argument that Obama does not deserve the nomination because he lost the "big states."  I'm pretty sure, New York, New Jersey, Illinois and California were "big states" in 1976.

February 14, 2008 4:49 PM

teplukhin2you said:

Fari points, jacob, but the man is paid to do nothing more and nothing less than craft words that move people. He botched the message, which is that HRC is still quite strong and may well come back, bigtime, in the big states. "It ain't over, folks". Hillary as the Comeback Kid, 2008 version.

Instead, Penn the supposed master-messager gets into the weeds, confuses the argument with misleading numbers, and risks raising expectations unrealistically by implying, again in a clumsy and confsing manner, that HRC's on track to lock it up. I mean, really, this guy is the master of the message? Huh?

February 14, 2008 4:53 PM

jacobt1 said:

"implying, again in a clumsy and confsing manner, that HRC's on track to lock it up. "

He didn't say it.

Here is what he said:

"After March 4th, over 3000 delegates will be committed, and we project that Hillary Clinton and Barack Obama will be virtually tied with 611 delegates still to be chosen in Pennsylvania and other remaining states."

There is nothing idiotic here, however, Penn migt be too optimistic.  

February 14, 2008 5:19 PM

arsonplus said:

Ok  so I've done a bit of research and discovered an irony to end all ironies. Obama may "win," which is to say pull the most delegates out of, Texas because of that crazy hyper-partisan redistricting plan Tom Delay pushed through.

Go figure.

February 14, 2008 5:35 PM

sullydog said:

"Obama may "win," which is to say pull the most delegates out of, Texas because of that crazy hyper-partisan redistricting plan Tom Delay pushed through."

Yeah. That's gotta burn.

February 14, 2008 5:51 PM

virginiacentrist said:

Tep -

I think the point is that you can do a better job at spinning, not that Mark Penn is spinning.

February 14, 2008 6:21 PM

Chris Orr said:

jacobtl -

The only reason Penn includes the phrase "64 percent of the remaining delegates Hillary Clinton needs to win the nomination" is to imply that by winning those states Hillary will be 64 percent closer to the nomination--which, of course, she won't unless she wins them all 100 - 0.

February 14, 2008 6:27 PM

jacobt1 said:

Chris Orr:

"The only reason Penn includes the phrase ..."

Krugman:

"I call it Clinton rules, but it’s a pattern that goes well beyond the Clintons. For example, Al Gore was subjected to Clinton rules during the 2000 campaign: anything he said, and some things he didn’t say (no, he never claimed to have invented the Internet), was held up as proof of his alleged character flaws."

February 14, 2008 6:43 PM

liebig said:

So today they finally finished counting the votes in New Mexico, which voted on Super Tuesday, and (unsurprisingly) Clinton stayed ahead and won.  Prepare for the next Mark Penn press release:  "See, Obama's not winning ten in a row after all!"

February 14, 2008 7:44 PM

Chris Orr said:

Two points, jacobtl, after which we'll probably have to agree to disagree. First, for over a decade Mark Penn has been a figure widely disliked by many, probably most, Clinton supporters (a category in which, like many others, I would until recently have included myself). If you imagine that I think less of Mark Penn because of his association with the Clintons, I assure you that you have it exactly backwards. I cannot speak to Krugman's feelings about Penn, but I doubt he's a fan.

Second, a blanket assertion that any criticism of the Clintons or those associated with them must be a result of the "Clinton rules" is just the flip side of the equally absurd claim that anything they do must be dishonest because they're them. If you have an alternative interpretation of why Mark Penn, in a highly vetted document intended for the press, would go out of his way to note that Texas, Ohio, and Pennsylvania "64 percent of the remaining delegates Hillary Clinton needs to win the nomination," feel free to make it.

February 14, 2008 8:12 PM

marcellusw101 said:

Chris: It's "is there any spin,"  not "is their any spin" -- come on man, you're a professional journalist!

February 15, 2008 9:33 AM

Chris Orr said:

appalling typo. thanks to marcellus and apologies to every teacher i had between the ages of 4 and 12.

February 15, 2008 11:02 AM