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COLUMNISTS
TODAY'S STORIES
31.01.2008
Fathers and Sons

Commenting on the Times piece about Bill Clinton's unsavory influence-peddling in Kazakhstan, Josh Marshall notes

One point that should not go unmentioned is that what former President Clinton is described as doing in that Times article is little different from what the first President Bush has done in his post-presidency. And his son is the president. So if it would be a problem with Bill, and I think it would be, it unquestionably is already a problem with the current president's dad. And no one has seemed to much bother about it.

Well, yes and no. The elder Bush's post-presidential influence-peddling may be as bad--or worse--than Bill Clinton's. But the situation is hardly analogous. To put it bluntly: George H. W. Bush doesn't live in the White House. He's not his son's principal adviser or surrogate, and certainly not half of the kind of two-for-one deal that Hillary and Bill seem increasingly to offer. Indeed, where Hillary's run is being framed explicitly as a Clinton restoration, W.'s campaign was framed as a rebuke to his dad's presidency, as his subsequent approach to social, economic, and (especially) foreign-policy issues aptly demonstrated. So while there may be similarities, it's hardly the same thing.

--Christopher Orr

Update: Josh agrees, and amended his post accordingly.

Posted: Thursday, January 31, 2008 1:00 PM with 16 comment(s)

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teplukhin2you said:

The venue and the coutnerparties matter. If I recall correctly, GHWB's shilling has been focused mainly on Japan, also Saudi. Clinton's has been focused on places like Dubai and Kazakhstan. Can anyone spot the difference?

hint #1: can you spell M-A-F-I-Y-A?

hint #2: mafiya = violent criminals allied with the state in Russia/the FSU

hint #3: favored playground/crossroads for mafiya types = Dubai

January 31, 2008 1:42 PM

BHLnyc said:

Christopher, I think you make several excellent points. But what's most important is that Hillary is supposedly running against this kind of ethical muddying of the waters and this certainly does not bolster her case. It just goes to show that the old patterns remain impossible for her to break.

January 31, 2008 1:45 PM

huntlib said:

In defense of the Clintons, everyone within 1500 feet of *any* president tries to peddle his/her alleged "pull" to anyone else who has an agenda. Remember Billy Carter, Donald Nixon, or the Rodham brothers?

January 31, 2008 1:45 PM

The Stump said:

Chris just flagged a Josh Marshall item about the Clinton-Kazakhstan story which, like Chris, I think

January 31, 2008 1:54 PM

Lundell said:

Good points Chris, especially on the "daddy issue" aspect of the W presidency.  I've always thought the W was a clear rejection of his father's more buttoned-down style.

Nice review of "There Will Be Blood" as well.  Saw it last weekend and thought it was very good.  (No attempt to hijack here).

January 31, 2008 2:03 PM

virginiacentrist said:

I'm increasingly frustrated that you folks will not call this "Borat-Gate".

January 31, 2008 2:06 PM

teplukhin2you said:

VA, all joking aside, this is deadly serious. It's about the nukes. The FSU candystore is wide open, and for Global Citizen Number One to be advancing uranium deals with John Gotti-type characters like Nazarbayev, instead of doing anti-proliferation work a la Nunn-Lugar, is more than gross.

January 31, 2008 2:10 PM

Rhubarbs said:

I would think that the only important difference between the cases here is that Hillary Clinton is asking me for my vote as the nominee of my party for president. George W. Bush is not. So, yeah, right now I care more about the possibly corrupt financial dealings of Hillary's immediate family (and the fact that her husband _lied_ about those dealings) than I do about the same subject with regards to George W. Bush's extended family.

January 31, 2008 2:16 PM

dbhuff said:

Does no one else worry that Clinton ENDORSED this Khazak who is suspected of murdering opponents and certainly hasn't run a clean election, for an international human rights position monitoring elections!? In opposition to US foreign policy and even his wife's statements?  Even without the extra sleaze of the apparent linking to mining contracts for his buddy, this is excreble.  

And frankly without that endorsement, and the apparent selling of Bills cred, this is a non-story about businesss as usual (friends, influence, money, etc).  Perhaps sleezy but so what?

But the guy he's supporting here is an a-hole...

January 31, 2008 2:17 PM

blackton said:

this just in, Jeffrey Dahmer was annoyed that nobody pointed out what John Wayne Gacy did.

good lord, is this the best defense the Clintonites can give us. What he did was wrong. Address that instead of pointing fingers elsewhere.

After Ike left the Presidency retired to the place where he and Mamie had spent much of their post-war time, a working farm adjacent to the battlefield at Gettysburg, Pennsylvania. I have been to that farm and the house, a modest affair. While living in Gettysburg, Eisenhower became involved with Gettysburg College. He served on the Gettysburg College Board of Trustees, and he was given an office by the college, which he used when writing his memoirs.

And Harry Truman: Once out of office, Truman quickly decided that he did not wish to be on any corporate payroll, believing that taking advantage of such financial opportunities would diminish the integrity of the nation's highest office. He also turned down numerous offers for commercial endorsements. Since his earlier business ventures had proved unremunerative, he had no personal savings. As a result, he faced financial challenges. Once Truman left the White House, his only income was his old army pension: $112.56 per month.

In 1958, Congress passed the Former Presidents Act, offering a $25,000 yearly pension to each former president, and it is likely that Truman's financial status played a role in the law's enactment. The one other living former president at the time, Herbert Hoover, also took the pension, even though he did not need the money; reportedly, he did so to avoid embarrassing Truman.

How can people not read the above two paragraphs and weep at how far our Presidents have sunk?

January 31, 2008 2:20 PM

boneill said:

Also, all I ever hear about is how shady the Carlyle Group is.  Sure, it isn't a major narrative, but people know about it and don't like it.  Michael Moore made it a major plank of Farenheit 911- yeah,a sucky movie, but millions saw it.  So, really- what is the point of comparison?

VA, I am with you on Borat-Gate.

Teppy, I appreciate the moral outrage on this.  I honestly had resigned it to yet another Clinton scandal, and felt my moral outrage run dry.  You and Blackie have shown me just how grotesque this thing is.

January 31, 2008 2:25 PM

BHLnyc said:

OK, VC -- it is now officially proclaimed "Boratgate." (I prefer it as one word, which I believe is the standard style.) Are you happy now? Let's see if the NY Post picks it up. If so, we all agree that we read it here first!

January 31, 2008 2:27 PM

J.J. Gould said:

tep -- Aye. And I hasten to add that anti-proliferation work a la Nunn-Lugar has been an Obama priority.

VAcen -- The only reason "Borat-Gate" isn't catching on is the hypen. Drop it and see what happens.

January 31, 2008 2:29 PM

J.J. Gould said:

BHLnyc -- Great minds ...

January 31, 2008 2:32 PM

Crock1701 said:

Makes you appreciate Jimmy Carter all the more....

January 31, 2008 4:32 PM

Runciman said:

Jimmy Carter, for all the good he's done with Habitat for Humanity, never met a dictator he couldn't do business with.  Of course, Carter does so out of principle, not for the paycheck...

January 31, 2008 10:18 PM