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COLUMNISTS
TODAY'S STORIES
13.11.2007
Double Standards Watch

Reading Andrew's last post, which purports to talk about "double standards," I'm trying to imagine the conniption he'd be experiencing were, say, the dreaded Hillary Clinton to associate with the likes of "ex-gay" gospel singer Donnie "the gays are 'trying to kill our children" McClurkin. This, of course, is what Barack Obama did, and it merited little reaction from Andrew. But Andrew has a big thesis to push, and this pesky story about Obama could not have emerged at a more inopportune time for a journalist trying to making the case that only Obama can heal the partisan divisions in our country.

Amidst an earlier discussion about Ron Paul taking money from a neo-Nazi, Andrew also alleges, citing no evidence, that "Jamie Kirchick actually supports Giuliani for president." It's true I'm more sympathetic to Giuliani than Ron Paul, but I will be the first to admit that I find Giuliani associating with the likes of Pat Robertson distasteful (whether or not Robertson's endorsement actually speaks to meaningful policy changes on Giuliani's part is a question I'll be addressing in a piece tomorrow). Earlier this year, I took Giuliani to task for his outrageous defense of southern states flying the Confederate Flag, which I consider to be an objective act of treason. The notion that I'm somehow giving a favored candidate a pass is without basis, and frankly ridiculous coming from Andrew.

For nigh on two days now, Andrew has had nothing substantive to say about the outright fascists supporting Ron Paul for president. Normally, this wouldn't matter because Ron Paul has about as much of a chance of becoming president as Mike Gravel. But Andrew has devoted a lot of real estate to him over the past few months and so I believe it's incumbent upon him to recognize the sort of elements Paul is attracting. 

Instead, Andrew is attacking the messengers. He writes that both the Jewish Telegraphic Agency's Daniel Sieradski and I are "factually wrong on Ron Paul" because a Paul staffer has spoken with another JTA reporter, making one-half of Sieradski's remark (published here at Jewcy) that "Ron Paul will take money from Nazis. But he won’t take telephone calls from Jews" inaccurate.  Okay. I don't work in the JTA office. 

But the pertinent part of this story has never been whether or not the Paul campaign is returning Sieradski's phone calls. It's that Paul unrepentantly accepted money from a prominent neo-Nazi, and, implicitly, what this speaks about the man's governing philosophy. It's beyond pedantic for Andrew to make the argument he's making. I'm still waiting for him to comment on Paul's taking money from a Nazi, and also imagining what he'd say were Giuliani to take money from fascists. 

Talk about "double standards."

Update: Daniel Sieradski explains his dealings with the Paul campaign. Key sentence:

I did not intend to willfully misrepresent Congressman Paul, nor his campaign, but when you take money from Nazis and don’t return phonecalls to a Jewish news wire for over a month, you might sympathize as to why I drew the conclusions I did.

The JTA's story on Paul, by the way, was published today, and reveals that the Paul campaign is totally ignoring questions on the support it is receiving from white nationalist and neo-Nazi groups. 

--James Kirchick

Posted: Tuesday, November 13, 2007 2:18 PM with 15 comment(s)

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achester99 said:

That's all fine, and I agree with you, and you respond to the accusation that you're supporting Rudy with a dismissal and not a denial.  This is, of course, the correct thing for you to do as a journalist.  But let me just say as an aside that I certainly hope you AREN'T supporting Rudy!

November 13, 2007 2:30 PM

thejauntyboulevardier said:

calm down boys, it is, after all, just politics.  This battle between Paul supporter v Guiliani supporter is devilishly fascinating in an odd Godzilla v Rodan way and all but geesh, you guys are going at it 'ammer and tongs...wow...

November 13, 2007 2:32 PM

teplukhin2you said:

Actually I wish the McClurkin story hadn't disappeared so quickly. The blog aggregator Tailrank.com tallied 980 blogposts on that story at its peak, much higher than any story I've ever seen tailranked. Obviously, it's a big deal, and it goes to the heart of my concerns about the hooey-factor in Obama's new politics and in our political debate generally. The notion of Ron Paul, isolationist gold-standard quack, as some kind of hero of progressive ideals is especially ludicrous. Good to see someone call BS on that.

November 13, 2007 3:02 PM

psantillana said:

It's not a double standard when there's a distinction.

Sullivan:  I tend to place greater emphasis on loons and hate-mongers that candidates actively seek out. Pat Robertson is a loon and an anti-Semite and a vicious homophobe who blamed Americans for 9/11. Giuliani didn't receive some unsolicited money from him; he actually stood on a platform and embraced him.

Kirchick does not respond to this, regarding Paul. He repeats his outrage as though it had not been addressed. But then he brings in Obama/McClurkin. I don't know what Sullivan's going to say, but I'll say this: Obama has repeatedly pointed out that he disagrees with McClurkin on the gay thing. And his point of view - whether you agree with it or not, I believe it to be genuine and consistent with his general rap - is that you don't shun people you disagree with, you engage them in discussion and try to win their hearts and minds. Obama has done this, for reasons that cannot be political, with the black church people, re gays, as Kirchick must know because Sullivan pointed it out:

andrewsullivan.theatlantic.com/.../obama-and-the-g.html

November 13, 2007 3:04 PM

jhunger said:

I don't understand Andrew's support for Paul.  Isn't Paul against gay rights?  And since when is Andrew Sullivan a libertarian?  I distinctly remember (when I used to read his blog on a regular basis) him referring to himself as a neo-conservative.  Or is it just more fashionable to be a libertarian now?  

Unless I missed his pronouncement changing his ideological affiliation...  which I know is possible.  

Anyway, Ron Paul has been hostile to Jewish concerns in the past so maybe it shouldn't be a surprise that he'd accept Nazi money.  

November 13, 2007 3:06 PM

WoodyBombay said:

Wow. Jamie is proved wrong, so what does he do? Attack, attack, attack! Then rationalize and  downplay his own mistake. Then attack some more!

Somewhere, Karl Rove is beaming like a proud pappa.

November 13, 2007 3:08 PM

ndmackenzie said:

James Kirchick writes "This, of course, is what Barack Obama did, and it merited little reaction from Andrew."  A little googling uncovers SIX posts in which Andrew Sullivan referred to the Obama/McClurkin incident.

andrewsullivan.theatlantic.com/the_daily_dish/2007/10/the-mcclurkin-r.html

andrewsullivan.theatlantic.com/the_daily_dish/2007/10/who-was-respons.html

andrewsullivan.theatlantic.com/the_daily_dish/2007/10/obama-and-mcclu.html

andrewsullivan.theatlantic.com/the_daily_dish/2007/11/obama-and-the-g.html

andrewsullivan.theatlantic.com/the_daily_dish/2007/10/obama-and-the-c.html

andrewsullivan.theatlantic.com/the_daily_dish/2007/10/obama-calls-sol.html

James Kirchick then goes on to assert that the "pertinent part about this whole story" is that "that Paul unrepentantly accepted money from a prominent neo-Nazi." And, unsurprisingly, James Kirchick is once again.  The most significant part of this story is contained in the opeingin four paragraphs of the orginal Jewcy article which are:

-- Ron Paul has a Jewish problem.

-- Last month, the dark horse Republican candidate was barred from the Republican Jewish Coalition’s Candidate’s Forum due to his stance against providing further foreign aid to Israel.

-- Typical of his view, at an event on September 11 of this year at Johns Hopkins’ School of Advanced International Studies, Paul argued for withdrawing from the Middle East, telling his audience that "Israel is quite capable of taking care of itself" - though interestingly adding that US policy has "hurt Israel tremendously." Paul also downplayed the threat Iran poses to Israel, saying that even if Iran does develop nuclear arms, that it would not be a serious danger to Israel, which, he added, possesses roughly 300 nuclear weapons of its own.

-- Paul’s position towards Israel is not innately anti-Jewish, nor is it necessarily even anti-Israel - particularly with such a caveat about America impeding Israel’s interests. Such a statement lends weight, for example, to Zionist extremists who wish to terminate Israel’s Herodian dependence on the US, such as the members of Zionists for Ron Paul, a group run by American expatriates now living as religious settlers in the West Bank.

The real problem to Jewcy and Kirchick is that Ron Paul is not willing to toe the traditional US line and appease Israeli inhumanity towards the Palestinian people.  And therefore, just as in so many other cases and most recently with Mearsheimer and Walt, the proto-Nazi Likudnik lobby is forced to bring out the anti-Semitic association with Nazism canard.

I have no interest in supporting Ron Paul who has anyway no chance of being elected President of the United States. Like any other moral person who looks for the good in this Nation I oppose those, like Giuliani, who would continue the Israelization of this Nation's foreign policy that started with the Bush/Cheney administration. These policies have brought moral carnage to the State of Israel and have already devastated the moral reputation of this Nation. A Giuliani Presidency, certain to continue this Israelization, would only finalize the destruction of American morality.

November 13, 2007 3:14 PM

miceelf said:

Sullivan did respond at length to the McClurkin thing. But here's a difference between Obama and Paul. Obama specifically stated that he disagreed with McClurkin about gays. He directly addressed the concerns that McClurkin's presence raised. Now, whether he should still ahve included McClurkin is debatable. But at least he made it clear where he stood.

Compare and contrast BOTH Ron Paul, who has said nothing, and Guiliani who also hasn't expressed disagreement directly with Robertson.

November 13, 2007 3:24 PM

ndmackenzie said:

The JTA has emailed Andrew Sullivan to say that the original JTA blog entry was factually wrong.

andrewsullivan.theatlantic.com/.../kirchick-and-si.html

The "official" JTA story is:

www.jta.org/.../20071112jewsforronpaul.html

November 13, 2007 3:24 PM

Rhubarbs said:

Aside from everything else, is Kirchick really exempt from normal editorial standards? Such as using last names on first reference?

I mean, it is helpful for Kirchick to signal with his first reference to "Andrew" by first-name only that what follows will be an entirely skippable bit of masturbatory feud-blogging. So props for helping a busy reader know what's coming. But seriously, everyone else here seems to be able to write up to high-school journalism standards. It's one thing to refer to major public figures by one name only in a blog like this -- Obama, Hillary, Rudy -- but Andrew Sullivan has to be named explicitly on first reference.

November 13, 2007 3:32 PM

Androscoggin said:

Kirchick, you have a remarkable ability to make me irritated even when I agree with you.  Instead of huffing and puffing about how mind-bogglingly outraged you are about everything, why not present a set of facts and allow others to come to their own conclusions?  This is what good journalists do.  

Do I think Ron Paul should be accepting money from neo-Nazis?  Of course not.  (And it's weird --though perhaps characteristic -- that Sully doesn't find it more troubling.)  If this fact justifies outrage, then outraged I will be.  But I am not going to get angry because you are, or because you tell me I ought to be.  Your permanant red-in-the-face routine isn't edifying.

Somebody like Hitchens can get away with similar rhetorical excess because he has a sense of humor, and he's brilliant.  You don't, and you aren't.  It's all brimstone and sarcasm and no irony or insight.  And you're often wrong.  Everybody's wrong sometimes, but it's possible to be interesting and wrong.  You tend to be boorishly wrong.  And you're a lazy blogger, which is why you have to correct yourself so often.

November 13, 2007 3:44 PM

teplukhin2you said:

"Israelization" - giggle

November 13, 2007 4:03 PM

Rhubarbs said:

Just to be fair, let me say that I applaud Kirckich for saying outright that flying the Confederate flag is something very close to treason. (Specifically, it's a celebration of treason, not treason itself, but that's a thin distinction. "No, I'm not an al-Qaeda member. I'm an al-Qaeda supporter.")

If the ban-flag-burning crowd would write into their constitutional amendment a provision allowing Congress to outlaw the public display of flags or symbols associated with wartime enemy nations or armed insurrections against the United States, I'd actually be for it. I'd personally be willing to sacrifice my (never to be used) right to burn the flag if in trade Confederate symbols would be banned.

We can "honor" the experiences of the ordinary soldiers of the Confederacy without making a fetish of the symbols under which their leaders committed treason against the United States of America -- what Whitman described in "This Dust Was Once the Man" as, "the foulest crime in history known."

November 13, 2007 4:28 PM

jhunger said:

Rhubarbs, good points regarding the Confederacy and treason.  

November 13, 2007 5:01 PM

psantillana said:

I disagree with the ban-flag-burning crowd [which includes Hillary Clinton, lest anyone ever forget], and I disagree with the Confederate-flag-banning crowd. If someone wants to burn or wave a flag, it lets me know what they think. I like that. I do not think a government building should fly a confederate flag along with the American flag, because it sends the wrong [and very confusing] message, but what non-governmental actors do is fair game, and should stay that way.

November 13, 2007 7:45 PM